EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Ghostaka]

Doesn't variation in creatures on the Earth demonstrate the power of Allah? Allah is able to make variation in His creation. If He didn't, there would be a standard issue human.. specific height, hair color? You say that can be explained by evolution/genetic mutation? OK then people, let us take the most simplest example of Allah's Might.... Biometrics. In particular, FINGERPRINTS. Not a single one is exactly the same as the other.

Can you explain to me why there would be any reason for a uniqueness in fingerprints according to evolution/natural selection? How would it affect the survival of a species?

It cannot be more obvious, seriously.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Ghostaka]

the quran was written by humans, not allah. and i could quote from a children's book and it would be "in the likes of those in the Qur'an". everytime you quote from the quran, you are quoting from what a human has written. there is no evidence to the contrary. and the quran has never, and will never be evidence of anything other than the existence of the religion of Islam.

OMG, we already went over this! What human would know about Embryogenesis 1400+ years ago? You're joking man!.

Peace be upon you.

 

[darkendless]

OMG, we already went over this! What human would know about Embryogenesis 1400+ years ago? You're joking man!.

Peace be upon you.

None did, like i always say, Muslim scholars are fabricating the meaning of their scripture to make it mean something it didnt mean 20 years ago.

 

[JMorris]

OMG, we already went over this! What human would know about Embryogenesis 1400+ years ago? You're joking man!.

Peace be upon you.

nothing, the quran proved that

or are you under the illusion that we all agreed that the quran was written by god?

 

[Ghostaka]

None did, like i always say, Muslim scholars are fabricating the meaning of their scripture to make it mean something it didnt mean 20 years ago.

Embryology in the Noble Quran.

Read the verses for yourself and then come back and tell me you think that Allah was not describing the formation of a fetus. Do it yourself so that you dismiss this fabrication business once and for all.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

/QUOTE Autodidact] And that's exactly what we do see, when we look at the evidence.(End Quote)

Response: Right. And when you do, you don't see anything evolve into another species. Therefore, you have no proof. Just a belief.

On the contrary, we do see it. So much so, that for Fatihah to maintain his beliefs, he is forced to assert that reputable scientists are simply lying about what they observe. He doesn't know them, has no basis on which to assert that they're lying. But if they're telling the truth, he might have to move into the 19th century and accept one of the greatest advances in scientific knowledge made over 150 years ago, so he has the affrontery (and is willing to risk being sued for slander) to call them liars.

Here are instances of observed speciation, the exact thing that you deny exists. Now I'm sure you will change your views as a result. NOT.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Why should that be? Because that's the only way you know something evolved. By seeing it happen. How else can you know?

Well we have this really neat thing called science. It uses evidence, and it allows us to know things we can't see, by using the scientific method and gathering evidence. It has enabled much of the world to advance out of the dark ages. You might want to join us. Or not.

As for the verse, no verse mentions bacteria. However, as explained in the verses in post 1313, Allah says that there are signs within his creation to know how they came into existence. Once a person analyzes creation, they will come to learn of all matter and organisms, including bacteria.

Exactly. And those signs all point to evolution. Therefore it is clear that by rejecting those signs, and calling them lies, you are not being a good Muslim.

 

[Ghostaka]

nothing, the quran proved that

or are you under the illusion that we all agreed that the quran was written by god?

Who do you think wrote it tell me? In it's orginal language; Arabic, the verses/rhythm and rhyme etc cannot possibly be written by any man. I can guarantee you. This is why it is impossible for you to replicate it (even a single page--not matter WHO tries) and therefore you fail Allah's challenge.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: You can't know the color of something without seeing it.

With science, you can. You can analyse the spectrograph. You can make the item available to anyone who wants to see it, ask 1000 of them what color they saw, and if 999 of them say "red," accept that the item is red.

Have you ever seen an atom? Do they exist?

 

[Fatihah]

I have said nothing of the sort and I am insulted that you would insinuate such a thing.

I have faith in Creator (you call it Allah and that's fine).
What I have said is that it is plain to see that evolution happens in the world around us and that this is the method used by Creator to form life.

I say it must be true because Creator would not lie to us. I have seen mutations change things in the lab and I have enough faith to know that Creator would not be tricking me into seeing something that was false.

Thus your question is irrelevant... I am not promoting atheism in any way.

wa:do

Response: In post 1187 of page 119 you say the following:

"No scientific theory considers god.... That's how science works."

Yet above you consider God. Thus your whole argument is contridicting.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: An example for you:

Allah says in the qur'an:

"Verily, in the heavens and the earth are Signs for those who believe

And in your own creation and that of all the creatures which He spreads are Signs for a people who posses firm faith" ch.45:3,4

Also we read: "See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it? That surely, is easy for Allah

Say, Travel in the earth and see how he originated the creation. Then will Allah create the second creation. Surely, Allah has the power over all things" ch.29:19,20

Here we understand that Allah is the creator so all diversity was created by him. Originated by him. Then we are specifically told that in every one of Allah's creation is a Sign that let's us know how it was created. Therefore, if evolution was the cause, we all would be able to "SEE" it

And we can. When you use science, that's exactly what you see. That's why all of modern Biology accepts this theory. You are rejecting Allah's works and manner of creation.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: A process which requires sight.

Nope. The whole thing could be done by hearing, with no sight required.

 

[kai]

Response: A muslim accepts the qur'an as truth so no muslim would take the challenge. The challenge is for those who doubt the qur'an to be true.

ok, but who judges if the chapter is equal or not?

 

[Autodidact]

Response: "Narrated By Abdullah

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the prophet and it became two parts. The prophet said, 'Witness, Witness. (The miracle) Sahih Bukhari Volume 6 Book 60 number 388

Here we see that people saw a miracle of Muhammad in which he split the moon. So why is your account true and mine false?

Because you yourself can go to Galapagos and examine these finches. You can examine the scientists' data. You can spend 20 years on the Galapagos, and see exactly what they see. Or you can look at the data from scientists who went there in the 50's, and compare it to the observations of others that went there in the 90's. And you can see that all of the data is consistent, and is also consistent with other scientific observations and laws.

Can I see the moon cleft asunder? Can I talk to all the people who saw it?

 

[darkendless]

Embryology in the Noble Quran.

Read the verses for yourself and then come back and tell me you think that Allah was not describing the formation of a fetus. Do it yourself so that you dismiss this fabrication business once and for all.

Peace be upon you.

The scripture is not specific at all and could mean many things.

"Man WE did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then WE placed him As ( a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then WE made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot WE made A (foetus) lump; then WE Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then WE developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be ALLAH, The Best to create!"

How is that at all specific?

 

[Ghostaka]

Have you ever seen an atom? Do they exist?

You are not realizing that you are demonstrating to yourself that something can exist even though you cannot see it with your own eyes; you cannot see Allah.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: The subject has not changed. We're discussing whether ToE is true or false. I say it's false and Allah is the creator.

And I say it's true and Allah is the creator.

Allah is the creator.

Now will you please stop asserting this as a denial to evolution?
This is why I am forced to ask whether you are dishonest, rude or unable to learn. This at least the 20th time I have told you that I am NOT saying that Allah is NOT the creator. Why can you not understand this?

 

[JMorris]

Who do you think wrote it tell me? In it's orginal language; Arabic, the verses/rhythm and rhyme etc cannot possibly be written by any man. I can guarantee you. This is why it is impossible for you to replicate it (even a single page--not matter WHO tries) and therefore you fail Allah's challenge.

Peace be upon you.

:sarcastic anyone who could of written Arabic could of written it. and anyone who lives today who can write Arabic can copy it.........what a silly question

 

[Ghostaka]

The scripture is not specific at all and could mean many things.

"Man WE did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then WE placed him As ( a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then WE made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot WE made A (foetus) lump; then WE Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then WE developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be ALLAH, The Best to create!"

How is that at all specific?

What else is Allah talking about in this verse tell me? You are being "willfully ignorant" as you like to say.

If you do not understand it's meaning, at least see the fact that nobody at that time would have enough information to fabricate the verse you quoted. What does that show?

Allah is All-Knowing, All-Seeing, All-Hearing.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Ghostaka]

:sarcastic anyone who could of written Arabic could of written it. and anyone who lives today who can write Arabic can copy it.........what a silly question

Copy? That is not Allah's challenge to those that think the Qur'an was fabricated by humans. Allah challenges you to WRITE A NEW CHAPTER/PAGE LIKE IT. Who is this anyone? I cannot believe that with all your "intelligence and objectivity" you claim to have, that you are being serious right now.

Peace be upon you.