painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
You are one claiming that statements are false....
I have said nothing about the story of the moon.
Why change the subject?
wa:do
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EVOLUTION, what a lie.
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
I have said nothing about the story of the moon.
Why change the subject?
wa:do
Response: The subject has not changed. We're discussing whether ToE is true or false. I say it's false and Allah is the creator. You say it's true and Allah is not the creator. You present some evidence to say ToE is true because scientists have seen it happen. I presented evidence in the same manner that says that people witnessed Muhammad split the moon, a miracle proving the existence of Allah and the true prophethood of Muhammad, thus denouncing ToE as beind true. Thus the question is relevant. Is my evidence false? If so, why is yours true and mine false?
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painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I have said nothing of the sort and I am insulted that you would insinuate such a thing.
I have faith in Creator (you call it Allah and that's fine).
What I have said is that it is plain to see that evolution happens in the world around us and that this is the method used by Creator to form life.
I say it must be true because Creator would not lie to us. I have seen mutations change things in the lab and I have enough faith to know that Creator would not be tricking me into seeing something that was false.
Thus your question is irrelevant... I am not promoting atheism in any way.
wa:do
Response: I just spent the last 20 minutes or so trying to find the post in which you responded to one of mine saying that ToE does not go together with God or something of that nature. Unfortunately, I can't find it. If you say you didn't say it, I'll take what I said back. The post was not meant to insult you and I apologize if I did.
I've never heard of someone believe in God and ToE. That changes everything. I honestly don't know how to respond right now. I'll get back to you when I do.
Good night.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
There are a lot of us... including the head of the Human Genome Project and now the NIH and oodles more.
Evolution itself says nothing about there not being a god... Just how creation is an ongoing process of change for life (god may have taken a rest, but he set up things so that life didn't). While atheists will naturally agree with the theory, it is not in itself atheistic.
This is a common misconception about evolution. Sadly it is an easy one to spread.
I accept your apology in the spirit it was given... have a good night.
wa:do
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Now, keep in mind, not all athiests believe in the the theory of evolution, just most, cause there is a lot of evidence to back it up. Also, this comes from the moon asunder thing, ummm... the moon isn't in two right now, so i'm not seeing that. I'm sure you got a response, something like he put it back together, which is cool, if it's true.
Now here's a problem with your so called fact, and ToE. Witnesses, may have seen the moon split in two, but did they actually know why? Back in the good ol days of ignorance, people used to attribute EVERYTHING, to some god or another. So, i'm not feeling that argument.
A good example would be greek mythology. Nowadays it's seen as mythology, but they actually used to believe that stuff. For just about every little thing, there was a god in charge of it. Especially the stuff we didn't understand. Nowadays science is able to explain how much of that works. Though i'm still curious about how the moon is no longer in two. Cause i can see how people could ignorantly believe a god broke the moon, but i'd have to wonder how it got put back together.
Personally, i doubt the entire story, but feel free to tell me about it. And before you act like i'm attacking your beliefs, come on, that's pretty farfetched, isn't it? Sure, if there was a god, he could probably do it, but why?
Now here's a problem with your so called fact, and ToE. Witnesses, may have seen the moon split in two, but did they actually know why? Back in the good ol days of ignorance, people used to attribute EVERYTHING, to some god or another. So, i'm not feeling that argument.
A good example would be greek mythology. Nowadays it's seen as mythology, but they actually used to believe that stuff. For just about every little thing, there was a god in charge of it. Especially the stuff we didn't understand. Nowadays science is able to explain how much of that works. Though i'm still curious about how the moon is no longer in two. Cause i can see how people could ignorantly believe a god broke the moon, but i'd have to wonder how it got put back together.
Personally, i doubt the entire story, but feel free to tell me about it. And before you act like i'm attacking your beliefs, come on, that's pretty farfetched, isn't it? Sure, if there was a god, he could probably do it, but why?
True and irrelevant and has nothing to do with ToE.
POPULATIONS evolve NOT individuals.:shout
Why is that so hard to grasp?
Thats the point, we are assuming species change into new ones, because of change...the only logical thing is that change is observeable, to assume and reclassify a species means that you are assuming new species are coming because change can be observed.
Are you suggesting these children are becoming something other than human beings? what about Downs syndrome babies or albinoes?
Response: You see my friend... You want to believe in ToE or the non-existence of God so much...that you didn't catch on to the hypocrisy in your own argument.
I present to you my evidence of witness accounts that the moon was split as a miracle from Muhammad. You don't accept it. But what do you do? You bring forth the exact same style of evidence for your argument. You say:
"Back in the good ol days of ignorance, people used to attribute EVERYTHING, to some god or another. So, i'm not feeling that argument.
A good example would be greek mythology. Nowadays it's seen as mythology, but they actually used to believe that stuff. For just about every little thing, there was a god in charge of it. Especially the stuff we didn't understand."
Now tell me, how exactly do you know that this is true? Get the picture? Your evidence that this is true is no different from mine, yet you reject one and choose the other. That's what I'm talking about. To do so is hypocritical.
As for them knowing the moon split, yes they knew why. It was a miracle of Muhammad (pbuh) to strength their faith and bring further proof of the existence of Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) as a true prophet.
Response: Then why do you believe that God exists but don't believe his message (the qur'an)?
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
theres the statement, now wheres the proof? there is evidence of evolution, there is no evidence that the moon split in two. present evidence of this, and i will consider it. but as it is, there is no evidence, so no reason to consider it. the "Theory of the Split Moon" is not equal to the ToE for this reason.
and yes, before you say it, my statement is not evidence. but you could go to a museum, i understand thats a bit much to ask of you, but you could do it.
and yes, before you say it, my statement is not evidence. but you could go to a museum, i understand thats a bit much to ask of you, but you could do it.
Response: No museuem shows a species evolving into another species.
As for my proof, I've shown this to you before:
In ch: 4:82 of the qur'an we read, "Will they not,then, meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".
Here we have two tests to prove the authenticity and truth of the qur'an. Once applied, you will come to learn that the qur'an is in fact from Allah and has never nor will it ever be corrupted.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
i do indeed find much discrepancy therein. every quote ive ever seen you make of quran is in no way based upon reality. i ask for evidence of the moon splitting in two, and you reply with quotes from the quran, thats pretty much what i expected from you. so i ask again, present evidence, solid evidence, that the moon was split in two, and i will consder it.
and since you enjoy quotes, ill leave you this one:
Whatever knowledge is attainable, must be attained by scientific methods; and what science cannot discover, mankind cannot know.
- Religion and Science (1935), ch. IX: Science of Ethics
Ghostaka
Active Member
You quote from humans? Allah challenges you to produce a chapter in the likes of those in the Qur'an. Once you fail (and you will), then you will realize that you cannot dismiss the Qur'an as evidence.
Peace be upon you.
kai
ragamuffin
But Ghostaka who would be the judge Muslims? you are forbidden to find the like.
But if ye cannot - and of a surety ye cannot - then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
-- Qur'an 2.24 (trans. A. Yusuf Ali)
to do so would reject faith. and you have already determined that it is unaproachable so that wont be happening.
and remember unbelievers do not find the chapters remarkable at all.to even call it a challenge is rather challenging. I would tend to compare it with a rigged jury.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
No, i'm showing that genetic mutations exist. Such mutations could become more popular and lead to a newer development in the human race.
Response: And again I refer you to post 1392.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
the quran was written by humans, not allah. and i could quote from a children's book and it would be "in the likes of those in the Qur'an". everytime you quote from the quran, you are quoting from what a human has written. there is no evidence to the contrary. and the quran has never, and will never be evidence of anything other than the existence of the religion of Islam.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
:sarcasticI refer you to post 1393