EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Eddy Daze]

The argument of there being no creator defeats itself .The proof is in that we as human beings create, where do you think this creating comes from, a magic poof?

In fact observation of the world we can percieve would lead to a conclusion that this is contained in the universe, and in the unobserveable parts, if it did not how could it possibly appear here?

Someone once said if someone wishes to see God they must develop the eyse to see him, if an astronomer told you you needed to buy a telescope to enable you to prove an aspect of astronomy to yourself, then would you take his advice?

 

[McBell]

Response: Post 1389 of page 139 proves to the contrary.

only in your little fantasy world.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: To the contrary, the is clear proof that Allah exists. That is:

In ch: 4:82 of the qur'an we read, "Will they not,then, meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".

Here we have two tests to prove the authenticity and truth of the qur'an. Once applied, you will come to learn that the qur'an is in fact from Allah and has never nor will it ever be corrupted

And what about the 5 billion people in the world who don't believe in Allah? There are a good many of them who have read the Quran and who actually sought Allah, and came up with the idea that he doesn't exist. If something is clear evidence, it has to work every time. Every person has to be able to do the exact same thing and see the same results. That is the case for science and the ToE, but not for this "evidence" for Allah.

Someone once said if someone wishes to see God they must develop the eyse to see him, if an astronomer told you you needed to buy a telescope to enable you to prove an aspect of astronomy to yourself, then would you take his advice?

The difference is that "developping the eyes to see Allah" basically means "believing in Allah so that you can see him". In other words, you have to believe in Allah before you can ge the evidence to believe in Allah.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE mball1297]Fatihah, I'm just curious why you're even here. This is a debate, and you're clearly not here to debate. You've said your opinion, and you're obviously not going to entertain anyone else's, so the best thing to do is to just leave. Generally in a debate or discussion, both sides present their opinions and then back them up. All you can do is present your opinions. So, now that you've done so, there's nothing else for you to say. You're done. You've presented your opinion, and we've given the evidence against it, and you just present the same opinion again. Give it up.(End quote)

Response: If that's the case, then why aren't you following your own request to give it up? Unless, you're a hypocrite. That will easily be confirmed because you're going to respond to this post proving that you are. Now let's sit back and watch the prophecy get fulfilled.

(Quote mball1297)
If you want to actually debate, please continue, but that would include you actually trying to back up your opinion and/or actually listening to ours.(End Quote)

Response: Likewise.

 

[Eddy Daze]

Fatihah....this maybe of interest Harun Yahya - Why Darwinism is incompatible with the Qur'an - Chapter 1

"The difference is that "developping the eyes to see Allah" basically means "believing in Allah so that you can see him". In other words, you have to believe in Allah before you can ge the evidence to believe in Allah."

One need have faith in what is said, for instance you would have faith that the astronomer is giving the correct info, plus it is not just a position of faith , one needs to take practical steps in order to purchase the correct telescope also a methology would be required.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: If that's the case, then why aren't you following your own request to give it up? Unless, you're a hypocrite. That will easily be confirmed because you're going to respond to this post proving that you are. Now let's sit back and watch the prophecy get fulfilled.

The difference is I'm ready for a debate. I'm ready to back things up with evidence and debate the evidence and the opinions. I'm ready to listen to what you have to say, as long as it's not just "There's the statement, where's the proof" every time. I'd rather you learn how to debate and actually do that.

Response: Likewise.

I guess this is the best response I can hope for from you. You seem to love this one, when you have no real response to give. Oh well. I didn't really expect you to give an honest answer, I guess.

 

[Fatihah]

What is obvious is the pathetic intellectual bankruptcy of your position. If you wish that to characterize Islam as well, that is entirely your choice. But it should make more than a few Muslims cringe to watch you and others transform the tradition that gave us the Golden Age of the Abbassids into a bastion of ignorance and backwardness.

Response: Likewise.

 

[Magic Man]

One need have faith in what is said, for instance you would have faith that the astronomer is giving the correct info, plus it is not just a position of faith , one needs to take practical steps in order to purchase the correct telescope also a methology would be required.

You don't need to have faith in the astronomer. You can completely disbelieve him and get the telescope to prove him wrong. Or you can just be curious, not believing or disbelieving him, and get the telescope, and see for yourself.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE mball1297]And what about the 5 billion people in the world who don't believe in Allah? There are a good many of them who have read the Quran and who actually sought Allah, and came up with the idea that he doesn't exist. If something is clear evidence, it has to work every time. Every person has to be able to do the exact same thing and see the same results. That is the case for science and the ToE, but not for this "evidence" for Allah.(End quote)

Response: You just answered your own question. After seeing the challenge to prove the authenticity of the qur'an in post 1864, what did you do? You read it....then completely dodged it with the response above, thus confirming your denial. So why are there many people in the world who seek for proof then reject it? For the exact same reason as you just did. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks for the confirmation.

No, it is you who are providing confirmation.

 

[Fatihah]

In post 1865 we see the following:

[QUOTE mball1297]Fatihah, I'm just curious why you're even here. This is a debate, and you're clearly not here to debate. You've said your opinion, and you're obviously not going to entertain anyone else's, so the best thing to do is to just leave. Generally in a debate or discussion, both sides present their opinions and then back them up. All you can do is present your opinions. So, now that you've done so, there's nothing else for you to say. You're done. You've presented your opinion, and we've given the evidence against it, and you just present the same opinion again. Give it up.(End quote)

Response: If that's the case, then why aren't you following your own request to give it up? Unless, you're a hypocrite. That will easily be confirmed because you're going to respond to this post proving that you are. Now let's sit back and watch the prophecy get fulfilled.(End quote)

And as predicted, in post 1867 we read:
(Quote mball1297)
The difference is I'm ready for a debate. I'm ready to back things up with evidence and debate the evidence and the opinions. I'm ready to listen to what you have to say, as long as it's not just "There's the statement, where's the proof" every time. I'd rather you learn how to debate and actually do that.(End quote)

Thus confirming yourself as a hypocrite. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Eddy Daze]

You don't need to have faith in the astronomer. You can completely disbelieve him and get the telescope to prove him wrong. Or you can just be curious, not believing or disbelieving him, and get the telescope, and see for yourself.

If you have tested him and gained trust in his words then time is saved and education is speeded up.

You can just be curious, but this is a hit an miss operation, this is why we religious types have come to have trust in only an handful of people who have stood the test of time as prophets , teachers etc....Budha, Mohamed, Christ and Caitanya, in doing this we save many lifetimes of trial and error.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE Autodidact;]That's right, Fatihah. Nothing in science is ever proven. All scientific knowledge is based on evidence. (I quoted several cites that explain this to people who don't know much about science, but I doubt that you read or understood them.) So if you reject evidence as a source of knowledge, then you reject all of science. Of course, that's your prerogative, but you would have to give up your blackberry, just to be consistent.

So, if you reject ToE because it is based on evidence, not proof, you must reject all of science. Sad for you, especially if, Allah forbid, you were to become seriously ill.(End quote)

Response: You just said:
"That's right, Fatihah. Nothing in science is ever proven."

So once again, you are confirming from your own mouth that ToE isn't true.

(Quote Autodidact)
Don't worry about my "purpose," just answer the questions honestly--if you know how to do that.

So the number of species is constantly going down, right? As time goes on, we get fewer and fewer different species?(End Quote)

Response: Perhaps you answer questions without knowing the purpose of them, but I don't.

Because you are so ignorant of science, you don't understand that "not provable" is not the same as "not true." Very few things in life can be proven, mostly math and formal logic and that's about it. Everything else that you take to be true is based on evidence. There always remains some possibility of error. YOu can reduce the possibility to less than .01%, and that's as good as it gets. The theory that the earth is round, despite appearing to be flat, is confirmed to around 99.99%, but future data may show this to be incorrect. (in fact it turned out to be slightly pear-shaped.) You cannot prove that the earth is round, you can only provide evidence, the basis for all of science.

ToE is as true as any scientific discovery, including the round-earth theory. It can never be proven, any more than anything else in science. That is because science is empirical, and that is the nature of empirical knowledge.

You can reject ToE, but you must also reject all scientific knowledge, including that which powers your Blackberry, so you'd have to do it by carving your message into a rock.

I don't expect you to understand this, as you did not understand my elementary-level explanation for the first part of ToE. btw, I have given this explanation to many people on the net, and you're the first one who was not able to understand it.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: On the contrary, they drag because of certain atheists who insist on worshipping scientists while claiming that they don't believe in Gods and believe everything they say without actual proof and become hypocrites in their own arguments when they say that theists believe blindly when they are guilty of their own accusation, to the point where they reject all clear signs of Allah's existence, even when the evidence hits them right in the face.

You're right! Science is bad! Science is wrong! Science doesn't work! Down with science; up with superstition! Welcome to the 6th century. Good luck to you and all who choose to go back to the time before science gave us so much progress.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE JMorris]how do i know the North Pole exists? how do i know you exist? how do i know air exists? how do i know anything i havent seen exists? maybe your right, i should believe anything exists if i havent seen it myself. if this is what you believe, i would think you'd be a more ardent atheist than i.(End Quote)

Response: Exactly my point. Absurd logic and blind faith. You can't even answer as to how you know whether Santa Clause Exists, let alone prove that people actually saw evolution. Yet you believe it's true anyway and criticize others for not believeing blindly as you do. Thanks for clarifying your hypocrisy and fallacy in your own logic. Blind Faith. How sad it is.


(Quote JMorris)
you provided the proof yourself. if you cant see it, its not true/real. neither i nor you ever saw creation, and thus it cant be true. neither i nor you have seen Allah, and thus he cant be real. or are you a hypocrite on top of being a liar?(End quote)

Response: I never said that if you can't see it, it's not true. Amazing. Another lie and example of hypocrisy in the same post.

You said that the only proof you would accept is seeing it with your own eyes. (Would you like me to quote you? Unlike you I don't say things that aren't true.) Then you refuse to look, thereby making sure that you never need to learn the truth. Once again I congratulate you, urge you to smash your blackberry, and enjoy your 8th century life.

 

[Autodidact]

well thats because it is a lie. a very good cover up i must add.



well the first thing in my mind would be;
it is a theory, not a fact. so not real.
no solid evidence to support it
and thus concluding my point.



do whatch the language will you?

no they discovered bones alright, they did not burrie any.
but the ones that they found werent exactly, well lets say human material.

i am sensing that you are kind of offended or anoyed that i have said evolution is false.

I'm not offended. I feel nothing but compassion for you. It's sad when people choose ignorance and superstition over knowledge and progress.

 

[Magic Man]

Thus confirming yourself as a hypocrite. Thanks for the confirmation.

I take it you didn't actually read what I wrote, then, huh? A debate is where two or more people present opinions and then back them up. I'm backing mine up, and you're not even attempting to back yours up. That's the difference. I'm ready for a real debate, you're not, so there's a reason for me to be here.

If you have tested him and gained trust in his words then time is saved and education is speeded up.

Only if he's right. If you believe this, then why don't you accept evolution? For that matter, why don't you accept everything everyone tells you?

You can just be curious, but this is a hit an miss operation, this is why we religious types have come to have trust in only an handful of people who have stood the test of time as prophets , teachers etc....Budha, Mohamed, Christ and Caitanya, in doing this we save many lifetimes of trial and error.

Huh? "Religious types", as you say, have come to trust those people because they've been taught to, not because those people have any special credibility.

Anyway, the point was that buying a telescope to see the stars because of what an astronomer said and trying to develop eyes to see Allah because of what a book said are two extremely different things. The telescope doesn't require me to already believe what I'm looking for, while that's exactly what developping "eyes to see Allah" means.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: You just answered your own question. After seeing the challenge to prove the authenticity of the qur'an in post 1864, what did you do? You read it....then completely dodged it with the response above, thus confirming your denial. So why are there many people in the world who seek for proof then reject it? For the exact same reason as you just did. Thanks for the confirmation.

Well, at least your previous posts made some sense, even if they were completely wrong and ignorant. This one doesn't even do that much, though.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidact]Because you are so ignorant of science, you don't understand that "not provable" is not the same as "not true."
Very few things in life can be proven, mostly math and formal logic and that's about it. Everything else that you take to be true is based on evidence. There always remains some possibility of error.(End quote)

Response: Post 1734 of page 174 proves to the contrary.

(Quote Autididact)
ToE is as true as any scientific discovery, including the round-earth theory. It can never be proven, any more than anything else in science.(End quote)

Response: Exactly. Thank you once again for confirming that ToE is not true.

 

[Fatihah]

You said that the only proof you would accept is seeing it with your own eyes. (Would you like me to quote you? Unlike you I don't say things that aren't true.) Then you refuse to look, thereby making sure that you never need to learn the truth. Once again I congratulate you, urge you to smash your blackberry, and enjoy your 8th century life.

Response: You can't see something that doesn't exist.