Ex-Christian here.

[tarasan]

So you are telling me that being made fun of for being bald is punishable by a bear mauling 42 children? Somewhat overboard don't you think?

acutally if you read the greek they were a bunch of teenagers/young adults.

now with that information and the fact that there was 42 of them and the fact that if God it let slide tehy guy would probably have been dragged outside and killed, i think there was good reason for it.

remeber

language and location are two critical things in interpretation.

 

[dogsgod]

Ethos, congrats, I know the feeling, the unburden of a heavy yoke, however, you will not convince anyone here, they can only reason their way out as you have on their own.

 

[dogsgod]

acutally if you read the greek they were a bunch of teenagers/young adults.

now with that information and the fact that there was 42 of them and the fact that if God it let slide tehy guy would probably have been dragged outside and killed, i think there was good reason for it.

remeber

language and location are two critical things in interpretation.

Justifying the brutal slaying for what they might of done. Incredible.

 

[tarasan]

Justifying the brutal slaying for what they might of done. Incredible.

ignorance of the time my friend,

also iTS GOD

so isnt plausible to say he knew they would have done it if he hadnt of done it?

those kind of remakes just show the lack of substance of your agruement.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

So you are telling me that being made fun of for being bald is punishable by a bear mauling 42 children? Somewhat overboard don't you think?

What I was saying was that Elisha had at least 42 kids come out of a town and started to mock him. What would you do if 42 kids came out of no where and started to mock you? Do you think you could get away by just ignoring them? There was going to be a confrontation, but the kids didn't understand how out match they were.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

How is quoting scripture a relevant and even valid argument? If I were to make quotes from a research paper that was proven to be completely wrong, would that then make sense?

Since were talking about Jesus, quoting scripture is a relevant and a valid argument. IF we was talking about the law's of gravity it wouldn't really be useful. But then again you used scripture in previous post so lets not be hypocritical.

 

[Riverwolf]

How is quoting scripture a relevant and even valid argument? If I were to make quotes from a research paper that was proven to be completely wrong, would that then make sense?

Quoting Scriptures alone is poor arguing; using Scriptures to back up an appropriate argument (which this is) is fine.

 

[Ethos88]

What I was saying was that Elisha had at least 42 kids come out of a town and started to mock him. What would you do if 42 kids came out of no where and started to mock you? Do you think you could get away by just ignoring them? There was going to be a confrontation, but the kids didn't understand how out match they were.

In all honesty I would ignore it, I wouldn't call down two Apache helicopters to murder the crap out of 42 people, age is indifferent in this argument. Why is a child's or a woman's life more valuable than a mans?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Why is a child's or a woman's life more valuable than a mans?

I consider them equal.

 

[fantome profane]

also iTS GOD

so isnt plausible to say he knew they would have done it if he hadnt of done it?

Right, it’s “God”! You would expect that such a powerful and wise entity would be able to protect his prophet without resorting to mass killing, but apparently from this story “God” either could not come up with a way of protecting his prophet without mass killing, or he wasn’t really concerned about mass killing. However you take it this story does not reflect well on the nature of “God”.

 

[Copernicus]

begging the question is when I make a conclusion already assumed in the premise

Yes, we agree on that much.

the new guy said this

"Explain to me why you do not believe in the Olympian Gods and I will explain to you why any "God" postulated cannot and logically should not exist."

No dispute.

my premises are as follows

1.My God exists
2.For my God to exist there cannot be no other God
3. No other Gods exist

Assumptions 1 and 2 are not explanations of why you do not believe in the Olympian gods. They simply carry the presupposition that no other gods exist. Basically, all you've done is to say that you chose to believe in a religion that excludes the existence of those gods. You could have picked some other religion that gratuitously excluded the existence of the Olympian gods AND yours. You know that very well. So you have indeed begged the question.

This is a deductive arguement btw the conclusion is a logical nessecity of the premise

Logic only guarantees consistency of beliefs. Just because an argument is logical, that does not mean that its conclusion is true, only that it is consistent with the premises. In this case, your premises fail to give a satisfactory explanation of why you reject beliefs in Olympian gods on a priori grounds.

too add to my point he did not say that I could not assume that my God existed, only how i came to that conclusion which i have done.

While he did not explicitly say that, he also did not explicitly say that you could assume the existence of your god. In fact, we both know that he did not intend the existence of your God to be a premise in your argument. If the Olympian gods existed, that would preclude the existence of your god, wouldn't it? Just apply modus tollens to your logical argument. To give an explanation of why you reject belief in the Greek gods, you must consider the possibility that they might exist. But you have begged the question by excluding that possibility from the beginning.

 

[tarasan]

Yes, we agree on that much.

No dispute.

Assumptions 1 and 2 are not explanations of why you do not believe in the Olympian gods. They simply carry the presupposition that no other gods exist. Basically, all you've done is to say that you chose to believe in a religion that excludes the existence of those gods. You could have picked some other religion that gratuitously excluded the existence of the Olympian gods AND yours. You know that very well. So you have indeed begged the question.

Logic only guarantees consistency of beliefs. Just because an argument is logical, that does not mean that its conclusion is true, only that it is consistent with the premises. In this case, your premises fail to give a satisfactory explanation of why you reject beliefs in Olympian gods on a priori grounds.


While he did not explicitly say that, he also did not explicitly say that you could assume the existence of your god. In fact, we both know that he did not intend the existence of your God to be a premise in your argument. If the Olympian gods existed, that would preclude the existence of your god, wouldn't it? Just apply modus tollens to your logical argument. To give an explanation of why you reject belief in the Greek gods, you must consider the possibility that they might exist. But you have begged the question by excluding that possibility from the beginning.

very well i take your point i could attack the greek Gods firstly because they didnt create the universe, heck in greek mythology not even the titans created teh universe which begs the question who created them?

The fact that they where constructed out of matter and where in fact born, suggests that they are in fact slaves to the same natural laws we are which in fact none of the 5 major world religions ahear to.

the fact that authroms razor would discredit them as well, why would we need many Gods when only one would surfice?

could you tell me how these illogical inconsistancies relate to my God?

 

[Danmac]

After my entire life, I have finally had the courage to question my faith, and boy does it feel good. I feel a sense of enlightenment upon me, as if I am no longer being held back by some imaginative "force". That's becuase now I can allow myself to accept science as the fundamental explanation of our existence, not some book that claims the earth is flat and only 6000 years old, and somehow forgot to mention dinosaurs.

My argument is this, however.

Explain to me why you do not believe in the Olympian Gods and I will explain to you why any "God" postulated cannot and logically should not exist.

You have flip flopped once, why should I believe you wont do it again?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The Titan and Olympian myths are just that, myths, to explain how the Olympians and Titans are interconnected in a Monistic view of God. The Titans represent the darker side of God. That being said, to the poster of this thread- It is your choice to leave Christianity, but I will tell you what someone once told me, if you were baptized, the mark left on you by that sacrament cannot be removed. One way or the other, I believe you will be drawn back to some level of belief and trust in Christ before you die.

 

[Danmac]

After my entire life, I have finally had the courage to question my faith, and boy does it feel good. I feel a sense of enlightenment upon me, as if I am no longer being held back by some imaginative "force".

I suppose the contents of Pandora's box felt equally liberated. Good for it, bad for everyone else.

 

[Ethos88]

You have flip flopped once, why should I believe you wont do it again?

Becuase I was raised Christian. I went to college started my study with sciences and I now realize that it's impossible for the Christian God to exist within the realm of science and logic. Guess which one has made hummanity better out of those two? I'll give you a hint it's not the Christian God for sure.

 

[Ethos88]

The Titan and Olympian myths are just that, myths, to explain how the Olympians and Titans are interconnected in a Monistic view of God. The Titans represent the darker side of God. That being said, to the poster of this thread- It is your choice to leave Christianity, but I will tell you what someone once told me, if you were baptized, the mark left on you by that sacrament cannot be removed. One way or the other, I believe you will be drawn back to some level of belief and trust in Christ before you die.

Why is christianity not subject to being a myth then? Becuase people openly accept it? What if I oppenly accepted the olympian gods?

 

[tarasan]

Becuase I was raised Christian. I went to college started my study with sciences and I now realize that it's impossible for the Christian God to exist within the realm of science and logic. Guess which one has made hummanity better out of those two? I'll give you a hint it's not the Christian God for sure.

your right cause christianity never started schools, or hospitals or the like heck no.....

thats a very limited bais view at best mate, christianity has done a huge amount of good for the world.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Becuase I was raised Christian. I went to college started my study with sciences and I now realize that it's impossible for the Christian God to exist within the realm of science and logic. Guess which one has made hummanity better out of those two? I'll give you a hint it's not the Christian God for sure.

Science isn't all that good. It has a dark side too. I think science is more of a neutral factor.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Why is christianity not subject to being a myth then? Becuase people openly accept it? What if I oppenly accepted the olympian gods?

Because people don't believe its a myth.