Explain this logically christians....

[Copernicus]

Your missing the point. It isnt for God to act. It is for us to use our free will in positive ways so that this kind of thing doesnt happen. The person who caused this accident chose to use his freewill in a negative way which ultimately led to the deaths.

Actually, you are the one missing the point. According to religious doctrine, God has already acted many times in the past, so the question is what logical justification there could be for his inaction in this case. He let the drunk exercise his free will to create victims? What about the free will of the victims? Did they choose to die?

 

[Pegg]

oh i see how convenient...
special instances...
hmmm, wonder why god didn't cause confusion amoung man when creating the atomic bomb and allowed for the destruction of hiroshima and nagasaki...
would that be considered as a special instance?
but no, god was afraid that man could actually make a tower that could reach the heavens and thusly him
tell that to the victims of ww,i wwii, Vietnam, 9/11 angola, zimbabwe or the republic of congo...
i think there have ample reasons for god to intervene...and hasn't...ever wonder why that is?

i dont need to wonder why that is...it is obvious to me that we are self governed and we are living with the consequences of what it means to not have God controlling matters. We put men in control and the result is a disaster.

But on a positive note we are learning something very important...we are learning that we really do need Gods guidance in our world... independence is not good.

 

[Sententia]

Meanwhile, my faith betters my life and the lives of those around me, and it gives me great strength and comfort. I'm keepin' it.

I like cookies. Is big bad balance proselyting atheism to you? If you think so you'd be wrong. You can be a satanist, wiccan, christian or mystic leprechaun zealot.

My words were simply pointing out you don't get a pass on morality because you follow the jesus zombie anymore than an atheist gets a pass.

If that works for you than good for you but following Christ does not equal morality to me.

How we live our lives and what we DO in our daily lives matters more to me than following Christ. People can follow Christ and end up being immoral. Its not the following of Christ or Allah that matters to me... Its how you do it and for me personally I don't see how Christ, Allah or the tooth fairy even fits in to the picture of morality but at the same time some people like blue and others red. Pepsi vrs Coke... Theism vrs Atheism...

Regardless of how you say potato what personally matters to me is what you do... not why you think you do it.

When I was a smoker there was a lot of reasons I smoked... I am sure there are many more reasons people choose to do whatever it is they do but their justifications matter little compared to their actions. As you say faith without works but you personalize the meaning of that phrase so that when terrorist fly planes into buildings proving their faith you can still convince yourself that faith without works is a valid belief system.

Its superstitious nonsense but in your case - your "works" - will probably lead to good things. Its not to say your "faith work" will always be moral anymore then any action I take is guaranteed to be moral simply because I am disbeliever.

Jesus told lots of mommies and daddies to kill their kids. Jesus told people to bomb abortion clinics or gun down doctors in church. Jesus is crazy like that. Your Jesus would probably never do that and if he did you might check yourself into a clinic or at least not follow through simply because Jesus appeared and said to do it.

As my niece would say... What 'ev's.

 

[waitasec]

i dont need to wonder why that is...it is obvious to me that we are self governed and we are living with the consequences of what it means to not have God controlling matters. We put men in control and the result is a disaster.

but in the bible when man was self governed he interacted...and it had to do with a freakin tower leading to nowhere...

But on a positive note we are learning something very important...we are learning that we really do need Gods guidance in our world... independence is not good.

i think it's when we put labels on things we do not understand is when we limit ourselves...and giving god the label of a guidance life coach isn't helping

 

[Blackheart]

Actually, you are the one missing the point. According to religious doctrine, God has already acted many times in the past, so the question is what logical justification there could be for his inaction in this case. He let the drunk exercise his free will to create victims? What about the free will of the victims? Did they choose to die?

To say that he has acted in the past and should therefore act everytime someone wants to do a bad thing defies the logic of freewill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

oh i see how convenient...
special instances...
tell that to the victims of ww,i wwii, Vietnam, 9/11 angola, zimbabwe or the republic of congo...
i think there have ample reasons for god to intervene...and hasn't...ever wonder why that is?

Who is the god of this world of badness according to 2nd Cor 4v4?________
Who brings 'woe' to earth according to Rev. 12 vs9,12?_________
Who is behind the wickedness mentioned at 1st John 5v19?_______
According to Ecclesiastes 8v9 who dominates man to his harm?_______

At the tower of Siloam [Luke 13vs4,5] weren't those people at the wrong place wrong time like the people of 9/11?
-Ecc 9v11

God did not cause the ^above^ troubles.
However, God will have Jesus involve himself into mankind's affairs by getting rid of those that want to ruin earth. -Rev 11v18 B.

In the meantime, time has allowed for all of us to be born, and for all on earth to see that man can not successfully direct his step without living by the Golden Rule.
-Jeremiah 10v32; 17v9; Psalm 37vs23,24

 

[waitasec]

Who is the god of this world of badness according to 2nd Cor 4v4?________
Who brings 'woe' to earth according to Rev. 12 vs9,12?_________
Who is behind the wickedness mentioned at 1st John 5v19?_______
According to Ecclesiastes 8v9 who dominates man to his harm?_______

At the tower of Siloam [Luke 13vs4,5] weren't those people at the wrong place wrong time like the people of 9/11?
-Ecc 9v11

God did not cause the ^above^ troubles.
However, God will have Jesus involve himself into mankind's affairs by getting rid of those that want to ruin earth. -Rev 11v18 B.

In the meantime, time has allowed for all of us to be born, and for all on earth to see that man can not successfully direct his step without living by the Golden Rule.
-Jeremiah 10v32; 17v9; Psalm 37vs23,24

1st i must say that i think it's cute when you use the word badness

second i don't blame anyone else other than humanity.

so stalin, hitler, the atom bomb and even the inqusitiion wasn't bad enough? hmmm

 

[Kathryn]

I like cookies. Is big bad balance proselyting atheism to you? If you think so you'd be wrong. You can be a satanist, wiccan, christian or mystic leprechaun zealot.

My words were simply pointing out you don't get a pass on morality because you follow the jesus zombie anymore than an atheist gets a pass.

If that works for you than good for you but following Christ does not equal morality to me.

What 'ev's.

 

[Pegg]

but in the bible when man was self governed he interacted...and it had to do with a freakin tower leading to nowhere...

he interacted at that time to ensure that his purpose that mankind spread over the earth be realized. The plan of Nimrod was to create a city and keep everyone together in one place...they didnt want to scatter over the earth as God had intended.... so he intervened to ensure that would happen.

When it comes to fulfilling his purposes, he intervenes.

 

[waitasec]

he interacted at that time to ensure that his purpose that mankind spread over the earth be realized. The plan of Nimrod was to create a city and keep everyone together in one place...they didnt want to scatter over the earth as God had intended.... so he intervened to ensure that would happen.

god says...
gen 11:6
...If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

i guess god was not a big fan of team work...humanity working together in harmony for a common cause.
wonder why that would be...

When it comes to fulfilling his purposes, he intervenes.

i guess the atom bomb, both world wars and manifest destiny wasn't reason enough to intervene then...
it looks like god likes to divide people rather then bringing them together, or is that the fault of religious faith because their"god" ordains it so...and that's the way it is

 

[Copernicus]

To say that he has acted in the past and should therefore act everytime someone wants to do a bad thing defies the logic of freewill.

If you would explain the "logic of freewill", maybe we could discuss this. But neither you nor anyone else who uses that expression has yet explained how an intervention by God in this case would compromise "free will", but all those other interventions have not. Worse yet, what happens to your "free will" when you pass into the afterlife and live for an eternity in God's presence? If free will is somehow compromised by certain knowledge of God's existence, then why would any of us ever desire to be with God?

 

[Pegg]

i guess god was not a big fan of team work...humanity working together in harmony for a common cause.
wonder why that would be...

perhaps because he knows that some common causes are not good for mankind

the nazi's are a good example of why not all common causes are beneficial. Pol Pot had a common cause of uniting all the poor people in his country...his method was to kill off all the rich and educated

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We've had a number of Christians here say how it wouldn't be right for God to intervene on Earth to eradicate all suffering, but when I think about it, I've gotta say that, IMO, this is an odd position for a Christian to take.

Isn't the Second Coming precisely this? Isn't that God intervening on Earth to eradicate all suffering?

If it's not right for God to do this now, why would it be right for God to do it then?

 

[waitasec]

perhaps because he knows that some common causes are not good for mankind

like what?

the nazi's are a good example of why not all common causes are beneficial. Pol Pot had a common cause of uniting all the poor people in his country...his method was to kill off all the rich and educated

what? the nazi's focused on the differences not unifying the entire world, they wanted to take over.
pol pot wasn't trying to unify the world...if you believe this story of the tower of babel, isn't this exactly what god intended, chaos and misunderstandings?
don't you think it would be wonderful to have humanity work together and set aside our differences based on preconceived notions and biases? isn't that the goal for humanity?

 

[Maury83]

Waitasec, is it not true that a loving parent may allow a child to undergo a painful operation because of beneficial results that can come from it? Also, is it not true that "quick solutions" to painful ailments are often only superficial? More time is frequently needed in order to eliminate the cause.

Plus, there is an important work being carried out throughout the earth.."this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth, for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come". God is giving people an opportunity to learn about him and to take his side, that is why he is allowing some time to pass.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Waitasec, is it not true that a loving parent may allow a child to undergo a painful operation because of beneficial results that can come from it?

Is it not also true that a loving parent, if he was able, would choose a painless operation that yields the same benefit?

The whole "no pain, no gain" argument doesn't work when you're dealing with an omnipotent god unless the gain comes directly from the pain, and the pain isn't an undesired side effect (as in surgery).

 

[Willamena]

Is it not also true that a loving parent, if he was able, would choose a painless operation that yields the same benefit?

The whole "no pain, no gain" argument doesn't work when you're dealing with an omnipotent god unless the gain comes directly from the pain, and the pain isn't an undesired side effect (as in surgery).

I've yet to see anyone successfully argue that the world should be any other way than it is.

 

[cottage]

I've yet to see anyone successfully argue that the world should be any other way than it is.

Assuming an omnipotent God etc we can’t say that worlds, where they exist, must be such and such; however we can say is that this world could have been different from what it is.

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec, is it not true that a loving parent may allow a child to undergo a painful operation because of beneficial results that can come from it? Also, is it not true that "quick solutions" to painful ailments are often only superficial? More time is frequently needed in order to eliminate the cause.

so god destroys the world, eliminates 2 cities...because of sin
and then causes confusion because people are working together?
call me crazy, but the god in the bible is a god of division...it's pretty apparent...if you look around

Plus, there is an important work being carried out throughout the earth.."this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth, for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come". God is giving people an opportunity to learn about him and to take his side, that is why he is allowing some time to pass.

well if god did cause confusion and everyone was speaking the same language then we would have to spread the good news....

 

[waitasec]

We've had a number of Christians here say how it wouldn't be right for God to intervene on Earth to eradicate all suffering, but when I think about it, I've gotta say that, IMO, this is an odd position for a Christian to take.

Isn't the Second Coming precisely this? Isn't that God intervening on Earth to eradicate all suffering?

If it's not right for God to do this now, why would it be right for God to do it then?

exactly....well said.