Explain this logically christians....

[Kathryn]

How exactly do you heal a tragedy?
What do you understand by "heals tragedy"?

First of all, it is what it is. You can't change reality, so if reality is something so awful and so painful that your mind and heart can't bear it, you have to change your mind and heart.

It's that or just break apart.

Faith helps bring peace and even joy back into our hearts. Faith brings hope and assurance to our minds.

2 Corinthians 12:9,10

And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Time helps put events into perspective in our lives. This doesn't mean they don't continue to cause us pain. It simply means that we don't break apart under the pain. In fact, the pain can make us stronger.

 

[ninerbuff]

How exactly do you heal a tragedy?
What do you understand by "heals tragedy"?

I believe time lessens the blow of tragedy and that people end up remembering more about the good times they shared with that person.
But to heal it, I think many people combat the issue that may have caused the tragedy. For instance if a person died of breast cancer, the family left behind will fight for the cause to find a cure or do walks, etc. If a child was lost in a drunk driving incident, then the parent may join MADD or start a campaign against drinking and driving.
Some don't recover at all and there life falls apart even with a god in their life. Of course there will be those that say that they didn't "hand it all over" to god, but really if that person is so devastated by the loss, I doubt there would be much anyone can do.
My cousin was driving home to Canada with her husband and kids in a van. The whole family was sleepy and my cousin in law was getting tired at the wheel. She started to doze and her husband(my first cousin) screamed out at her when she drifted over to the right. The screamed caused her to over correct and the van flipped over 3 times. They were belted in, but the kids in the back weren't. The 2 oldest were badly shaken, but the youngest, who was also celebrating his 16th birthday that day, ended up breaking his neck and spinal cord. My cousin in law was cradling him in her arms when the ambulance arrived and he was already gone. This was 7 years ago. To this day I can still see the sadness in her eyes and the guilt she still feels. She's a strong person, but my cousin tells me that she still has episodes of just crying in times of silence. He's never blamed her and no one else in the family has either. So even with support, from family and her faith, she still gets broken hearted every once in awhile.

 

[Koldo]

First of all, it is what it is. You can't change reality, so if reality is something so awful and so painful that your mind and heart can't bear it, you have to change your mind and heart.

It's that or just break apart.

Faith helps bring peace and even joy back into our hearts. Faith brings hope and assurance to our minds.

2 Corinthians 12:9,10

And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

Time helps put events into perspective in our lives. This doesn't mean they don't continue to cause us pain. It simply means that we don't break apart under the pain. In fact, the pain can make us stronger.

I believe time lessens the blow of tragedy and that people end up remembering more about the good times they shared with that person.
But to heal it, I think many people combat the issue that may have caused the tragedy. For instance if a person died of breast cancer, the family left behind will fight for the cause to find a cure or do walks, etc. If a child was lost in a drunk driving incident, then the parent may join MADD or start a campaign against drinking and driving.
Some don't recover at all and there life falls apart even with a god in their life. Of course there will be those that say that they didn't "hand it all over" to god, but really if that person is so devastated by the loss, I doubt there would be much anyone can do.
My cousin was driving home to Canada with her husband and kids in a van. The whole family was sleepy and my cousin in law was getting tired at the wheel. She started to doze and her husband(my first cousin) screamed out at her when she drifted over to the right. The screamed caused her to over correct and the van flipped over 3 times. They were belted in, but the kids in the back weren't. The 2 oldest were badly shaken, but the youngest, who was also celebrating his 16th birthday that day, ended up breaking his neck and spinal cord. My cousin in law was cradling him in her arms when the ambulance arrived and he was already gone. This was 7 years ago. To this day I can still see the sadness in her eyes and the guilt she still feels. She's a strong person, but my cousin tells me that she still has episodes of just crying in times of silence. He's never blamed her and no one else in the family has either. So even with support, from family and her faith, she still gets broken hearted every once in awhile.

I can tell from personal experience that tragedy doesn't heal over time. What happens is that the size of the wound reduces over time, the bleeding gets under control and you end up getting used to it. It never goes away. It never heals.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. I don't know how good the world could be in the context of a different plan, because I don't know the whole plan.

Evil is horrible. Tragedy is horrible. I am not trying to minimize it in any way. Remember, you are talking to a woman who has had a stillborn baby, who has had her husband hold a loaded gun to her head, who has experienced quite a bit of grief and shock and sorrow in her life.

Christians believe that this world is temporal and that all sorrow and evil and tragedy will be done away with and will seem like a distant memory, if we remember it at all, one day. I think I can speak for most Christians when I say that, as well as many other religious people outside of Christianity for that matter.

I have faith in God's wisdom and justice.

Oh... so it's more that on the infinite scale of a believer's (hopefully) eternal life, the stuff we experience is this life is so proportionally small relative to the "big picture" that it's negligible?

 

[smokeybear]

It is impossible to understand faith. Trying to understand faith is like trying to understand riding a bicycle. One has to practice riding.


Smokeybear can tell you that it is possible to ride a bicycle because he has done it. The analogy ends there because faith is action which takes place internally. Proof that faith can overcome any tragedy must be experienced personally.


Until you practice surrendering to higher mind and energy, faith will remain a mystery to you. Guarantees won't cut it.


God does not "cause" tragedies. God is not some big guy who pulls the strings of illusion. God is infinite, therefore God is all there is -- good, bad, flowers, mosquitoes, inflation, deflation, pleasure, pain, life, death, you, me paupers, queens and everything in-between.


Faith in God does not prevent accidents. Faith in God overcomes mental suffering about accidents and any so-called misfortune.


Faith is not trust. Faith is the inner-connection to higher mind and energy one achieves through releasing habitual thought patterns and walking away from worldly crap.


Modern man, due to ignorance caused by his belief in materialism, has even lost his intuition/instinct and now must rely on "experts" to tell him what to eat, what to wear, how to fix his body, and worst of all; what to think. It is no wonder he has a resistance to faith in the unseen.


By the way....


Is there anything funnier than an atheist with a financial advisor....


or worse, a doctor?

.​

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is impossible to understand faith. Trying to understand faith is like trying to understand riding a bicycle. One has to practice riding.


Smokeybear can tell you that it is possible to ride a bicycle because he has done it. The analogy ends there because faith is action which takes place internally. Proof that faith can overcome any tragedy must be experienced personally.

Anyone who paid attention in high school physics can do the math to demonstrate that riding a bicycle is possible, even if he hasn't done it himself. Can the same be said of God?

By the way....


Is there anything funnier than an atheist with a financial advisor....


or worse, a doctor?

Makes more sense than a Christian with a financial advisor... what with all that "don't worry about the future" stuff that Jesus goes on about in the Gospels.

 

[ninerbuff]

It is impossible to understand faith. Trying to understand faith is like trying to understand riding a bicycle. One has to practice riding.

Lol, dumb analogy. People can "see" someone riding and bike and pretty much understand how it works.

Smokeybear can tell you that it is possible to ride a bicycle because he has done it. The analogy ends there because faith is action which takes place internally. Proof that faith can overcome any tragedy must be experienced personally.

Lol, I can ride a bicycle too. And faith DOESN'T overcome tragedy because most people who have experienced it who have faith still get sad about it.

Until you practice surrendering to higher mind and energy, faith will remain a mystery to you. Guarantees won't cut it.

What guarantee are you talking about?

God does not "cause" tragedies. God is not some big guy who pulls the strings of illusion. God is infinite, therefore God is all there is -- good, bad, flowers, mosquitoes, inflation, deflation, pleasure, pain, life, death, you, me paupers, queens and everything in-between.

Guess that forty day forty night thing was BS then?

Faith in God does not prevent accidents. Faith in God overcomes mental suffering about accidents and any so-called misfortune.

And that's why people "pray" to god so that he will "hear" there prayer and keep someone who may be in a tragic situation (like being kidnapped) safe. So prayer is useless if asking god to "prevent" a bad thing happening.

Faith is not trust. Faith is the inner-connection to higher mind and energy one achieves through releasing habitual thought patterns and walking away from worldly crap.

Lol, I ain't touching this one. Faith is not trust.............lol.

Modern man, due to ignorance caused by his belief in materialism, has even lost his intuition/instinct and now must rely on "experts" to tell him what to eat, what to wear, how to fix his body, and worst of all; what to think. It is no wonder he has a resistance to faith in the unseen.


By the way....


Is there anything funnier than an atheist with a financial advisor....


or worse, a doctor?

.​

Yep, a person like you who seems to be smoking weed and posting.

 

[Kathryn]

Yep, a person like you who seems to be smoking weed and posting.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

[Hawkins]

A close friend informed me today that his cousin lost his wife and 2 kids to a drunk driver a few days ago.
Now the cousin is being asked to "lean on god" and "faith" to make it through it.
So explain that if it was god's "plan" to take his family away, then why lean on god for support? How does that logically make sense?

It is already explained in the first few chapters of the Bible some thousand years ago.

Death is a curse since the fall. Everyone has to die once one way or another. Leaning on God such that your soul will be saved to avoid the second death.

 

[ninerbuff]

It is already explained in the first few chapters of the Bible some thousand years ago.

Death is a curse since the fall. Everyone has to die once one way or another. Leaning on God such that your soul will be saved to avoid the second death.

Yep, the bible contains logical stories...............:biglaugh:

 

[Commoner]

Yaaaay, we've got another fundy who thinks huge font size wins the argument...

 

[Hawkins]

Yep, the bible contains logical stories...............:biglaugh:

1/3 humans believe the "story". What's so funny about that while you are the minority in terms of religious groups (you don't seem to have this self-awareness).

 

[Commoner]

1/3 humans believe the "story". What's so funny about that while you are the minority in terms of religious groups (you don't seem to have this self-awareness).

If your appeal to numbers wasn't bad enough, less than 10% of that 1/3 have actually read the bible and of that 10% a significant portion dismisses parts of the bible...

 

[ninerbuff]

1/3 humans believe the "story". What's so funny about that while you are the minority in terms of religious groups (you don't seem to have this self-awareness).

Just because 1/3 of humans believe it doesn't make it logical. At one time everyone thought the world was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth (some in Russia still believe that) and that dinosaurs and humans roamed the Earth together at the same time (1/3 of Texans believe that).

 

[ninerbuff]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Nah, only saying he's high while posting his statements.

 

[Koldo]

It is impossible to understand faith. Trying to understand faith is like trying to understand riding a bicycle. One has to practice riding.


Smokeybear can tell you that it is possible to ride a bicycle because he has done it. The analogy ends there because faith is action which takes place internally. Proof that faith can overcome any tragedy must be experienced personally.

Ah,so you changed your mind about what you said back then. Let me refresh your memory about what you said:

If time eventually heals tragedy, then tragedy is finite.

So now you are saying that faith overcomes tragedy. You decided to give up saying that time heals tragedy, huh? Very convenient, but not smart.

As you have said, faith is done internally, and you can't prove that it overcomes tragedy.

Until you practice surrendering to higher mind and energy, faith will remain a mystery to you. Guarantees won't cut it.


God does not "cause" tragedies. God is not some big guy who pulls the strings of illusion. God is infinite, therefore God is all there is -- good, bad, flowers, mosquitoes, inflation, deflation, pleasure, pain, life, death, you, me paupers, queens and everything in-between.

So we have different definitions to God. You see God as the universe.

Faith in God does not prevent accidents. Faith in God overcomes mental suffering about accidents and any so-called misfortune.

What if we can overcome mental suffering about accidents and any so-called misfortune without faith, so what?

Faith is not trust. Faith is the inner-connection to higher mind and energy one achieves through releasing habitual thought patterns and walking away from worldly crap.

[faith
[feɪθ]n1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
2. a specific system of religious beliefs the Jewish faith
3. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) Christianity trust in God and in his actions and promises
4. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason
5. complete confidence or trust in a person, remedy, etc.
6. any set of firmly held principles or beliefs
7. allegiance or loyalty, as to a person or cause (esp in the phrases keep faith, break faith)
bad faith insincerity or dishonesty

good faith honesty or sincerity, as of intention in business (esp in the phrase in good faith)


interj Archaic indeed; really (also in the phrases by my faith, in faith)[from Anglo-French feid, from Latin fidēs trust, confidence]


Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003]


Do i need to say anything more?
I highlighted the definition in red.

Modern man, due to ignorance caused by his belief in materialism, has even lost his intuition/instinct and now must rely on "experts" to tell him what to eat, what to wear, how to fix his body, and worst of all; what to think. It is no wonder he has a resistance to faith in the unseen.

Humans live longer now because of all this.
Enough said.

By the way....


Is there anything funnier than an atheist with a financial advisor....


or worse, a doctor?

.​

What? Atheists simply reject the belief in God, not in doctors or financial advisors. Go read the definition of atheism.

 

[ninerbuff]

I just realized that smokey is in Sedona AZ............I think the "vortex" is playing havoc with the electrical impulses in his brain.

 

[smokeybear]

Sorry about the BIG FONT last time, folks. God made me do it. (Just teasing.) There are no html or BBcode formatting features in edit.

******
​

Don't knock yourself out trying to understand this, folks. What smokeybear is posting here is information not easily grasped by a mind conditioned by materialism/religion. Logic and reason are simply too confining to apprehend the immensity of spiritual issues.

Also, thanks for all your responses. Smokeybear reads all of them and they are appreciated. The replies help to energize this correspondence. Please excuse him for not addressing them. Time constraints require a catch-all approach.

Your logical arguments are valid but, again, too confining for spiritual issues.

*******
​

Time heals all wounds eventually. Smokeybear can guarantee that all the wounds President Washington received in that incarnation are healed. He can also guarantee that time healed the anger(mental pain) you felt from that stubbed toe. However, faith can heal wounds more quickly than time.

Faith is not the faith defined in our materialism-based language. It is not trust.

Faith is what Jesus Christ described in the New Testament. He said that if one had a thimbleful of faith, he could say, "Move mountain," and the mountain would move. That is spiritual faith, not religious faith.

Faith, like energy, is not really a noun. Faith, like energy, cannot be possessed. Faith, like energy, can only be used.

Like any other art, you can't think about faith. You have to do it.

Faith can be used through prayer and other means to prevent catastrophe, win lotteries and otherwise control events, however, it is a rather hit or miss affair. Faith used in such a way is not faith in God. It is a manipulation of energy and can backfire.

Faith in God is the desire to shed ignorance to realize what you really are. God is infinitely EVERYTHING.

This is not a definition. Whether you agree or disagree has no bearing on this Truth. It is beyond opinion.

The Truth is nothing new. It is not drug-induced mutterings. It is ancient knowledge that our materialistic-based culture has forgotten.

We have been programmed to believe that the cosmos is a closed system that man can control. That belief has engendered first religion, then various forms of government/economic systems producing hierarchical complexes to control the masses. This is about to end.

The world economic system is collapsing. We dodged the grenade in the thirties by creating debt-based currencies rather than currencies backed by rare commodities like gold.

Now that debt is saturated the Great Depression will continue. The authorities' well-thought solutions are making the situation worse by funneling newly printed money into the financial systems funding the commodity bubble which is driving up prices for food and fuel.

If they stop, the financial system crashes. If they continue the economic system will die. The revolutions occurring now are happening in the countries where food has risen the highest -- poor countries where people spend most of their money on subsistence. This phenomenon will get worse.

Materialism has failing. As it does more and more people will lose faith in man's ability to control natural forces. The pendulum is about to swing again from materialism to spirituality.

Tragedy will soon be the norm. As Meher Baba said in the 1950s, "The lucky ones will be the dead ones." Only faith in God can ease the pain.

It is highly doubtful that anyone reading this knows what spirituality is. Most confuse it with religion. Smokeybear is attempting, little-by-little, here, on other forums and on his blogs to bridge the gap from dying materialism to a new spirituality.

Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. However, as you watch man's creation disintegrate, some of the spiritual concepts related here may come to mind and you may endeavor to do some further investigation.

.
​

 

[ninerbuff]

Sorry about the BIG FONT last time, folks. God made me do it. (Just teasing.) There are no html or BBcode formatting features in edit.

******
​

Don't knock yourself out trying to understand this, folks. What smokeybear is posting here is information not easily grasped by a mind conditioned by materialism/religion. Logic and reason are simply too confining to apprehend the immensity of spiritual issues.

Also, thanks for all your responses. Smokeybear reads all of them and they are appreciated. The replies help to energize this correspondence. Please excuse him for not addressing them. Time constraints require a catch-all approach.

Your logical arguments are valid but, again, too confining for spiritual issues.

*******
​

Time heals all wounds eventually. Smokeybear can guarantee that all the wounds President Washington received in that incarnation are healed. He can also guarantee that time healed the anger(mental pain) you felt from that stubbed toe. However, faith can heal wounds more quickly than time.

Faith is not the faith defined in our materialism-based language. It is not trust.

Faith is what Jesus Christ described in the New Testament. He said that if one had a thimbleful of faith, he could say, "Move mountain," and the mountain would move. That is spiritual faith, not religious faith.

Faith, like energy, is not really a noun. Faith, like energy, cannot be possessed. Faith, like energy, can only be used.

Like any other art, you can't think about faith. You have to do it.

Faith can be used through prayer and other means to prevent catastrophe, win lotteries and otherwise control events, however, it is a rather hit or miss affair. Faith used in such a way is not faith in God. It is a manipulation of energy and can backfire.

Faith in God is the desire to shed ignorance to realize what you really are. God is infinitely EVERYTHING.

This is not a definition. Whether you agree or disagree has no bearing on this Truth. It is beyond opinion.

The Truth is nothing new. It is not drug-induced mutterings. It is ancient knowledge that our materialistic-based culture has forgotten.

We have been programmed to believe that the cosmos is a closed system that man can control. That belief has engendered first religion, then various forms of government/economic systems producing hierarchical complexes to control the masses. This is about to end.

The world economic system is collapsing. We dodged the grenade in the thirties by creating debt-based currencies rather than currencies backed by rare commodities like gold.

Now that debt is saturated the Great Depression will continue. The authorities' well-thought solutions are making the situation worse by funneling newly printed money into the financial systems funding the commodity bubble which is driving up prices for food and fuel.

If they stop, the financial system crashes. If they continue the economic system will die. The revolutions occurring now are happening in the countries where food has risen the highest -- poor countries where people spend most of their money on subsistence. This phenomenon will get worse.

Materialism has failing. As it does more and more people will lose faith in man's ability to control natural forces. The pendulum is about to swing again from materialism to spirituality.

Tragedy will soon be the norm. As Meher Baba said in the 1950s, "The lucky ones will be the dead ones." Only faith in God can ease the pain.

It is highly doubtful that anyone reading this knows what spirituality is. Most confuse it with religion. Smokeybear is attempting, little-by-little, here, on other forums and on his blogs to bridge the gap from dying materialism to a new spirituality.

Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. However, as you watch man's creation disintegrate, some of the spiritual concepts related here may come to mind and you may endeavor to do some further investigation.

.
​

I will disagree. And now I get you since I know you're in Sedona.

 

[search the scriptures]

Q: A close friend informed me today that his cousin lost his wife and 2 kids to a drunk driver a few days ago.
Now the cousin is being asked to "lean on god" and "faith" to make it through it.
So explain that if it was god's "plan" to take his family away, then why lean on god for support? How does that logically make sense?

god's plan= gods will

it was not gods will for the drunk driver to hit the family. however, it was the drunk drivers free will wich lead him to getting drunk and choosing to drive. God does not mess with our free will. he gives us the freedom of choice... in fact gods will is for the man not to be drunk, because the consequences of drunkeness mixed with driving are dangerous... blame the drunk drivers will not god's will. and i am sorry to hear that.