Explain this logically christians....

[PolyHedral]

Was man (or woman) compelled to disobey ?

Yes. They are compelled by circumstances and limited information.

 

[Beta]

Our ills are caused directly by the laws of physics. Very little of them, if any, stem from any sort of human action.

ALL laws material and spiritual are included when violated.

 

[AntEmpire]

oooops , thought one was the tree of LIFE.
Didn't God command the man NOT to eat of the death tree (as you call it) ??? But mankind did and consequently disobeyed the commandment. Was man (or woman) compelled to disobey ? No - they used their own free will Gen 3v6.
What mankind should have learnt by now (6000 years of suffering later) is not to disobey God if we want all to be well with us.

my bad, christian in another thread told me man wasn't allowed to eat of that tree either, and i did thought he was wrong... haha

Sorry did god NOT, put the tree and the snake in the same pixel of the universe as mankind with a purpose? Do you think god is dumb? God knew what would happen. Best part is because he made the snake and then conviently stepped away from the garden (because he had other things to do or something), turned a blind eye to the snake tricking eve. God knew before he created the tree.

It was god's will for man to disobey, so compelled? Yes by god's actions in creating the snake, and placing it in the garden. (probably telling it to trick eve before he put it there)

 

[Koldo]

Why do we suffer ?
Human disobedience to God's Commandments causes all our ills.
No one can deny that God has repeatedly admonished man for 6000 years to obey him. God has allowed us free will to do so but we have failed as can be seen in our sufferings. This is the result of not living God's ways.

How exactly do you know if i have failed?

The reason God has not up to now seriously stepped into our troubles is that man was allowed 6 days (6000 years) to do our own thing - to obey or not to obey Ex.20v9. Now our time is almost up and THEN God will step in.v10.

[Exodus 20:9-11 ( NIV )

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.]

It states that we shall work for 6 days. There is no connection between "labour" and "suffering" made here.

 

[Koldo]

oooops , thought one was the tree of LIFE.
Didn't God command the man NOT to eat of the death tree (as you call it) ??? But mankind did and consequently disobeyed the commandment. Was man (or woman) compelled to disobey ? No - they used their own free will Gen 3v6.
What mankind should have learnt by now (6000 years of suffering later) is not to disobey God if we want all to be well with us.

How did you come up with the 6000 years of suffering?!
Exodus 20 doesn't support this argument.

And how exactly can it be fair for the entire human race to be punished during 6000 years because of what 2 people had done?

 

[ninerbuff]

Why do we suffer ?
Human disobedience to God's Commandments causes all our ills.
No one can deny that God has repeatedly admonished man for 6000 years to obey him. God has allowed us free will to do so but we have failed as can be seen in our sufferings. This is the result of not living God's ways.
The reason God has not up to now seriously stepped into our troubles is that man was allowed 6 days (6000 years) to do our own thing - to obey or not to obey Ex.20v9. Now our time is almost up and THEN God will step in.v10.

Good thing I don't believe in god at all. No illness, no suffering and everything is going right in my life.................well, except for NFL bargaining agreement may put a snafu on my Fantasy league.

 

[Beta]

Yes. They are compelled by circumstances and limited information.

And how do you know what God had or had not explained to them ?
The main-thrust of the message to us is that they disobeyed after having been told what to do.
So are you saying that more info would have made them obey ?
We have all the knowledge necessary today - do people obey ??? Don't make me laugh !!! :no:

 

[PolyHedral]

ALL laws material and spiritual are included when violated.

Nobody has ever broken the laws of physics, and nobody currently alive will ever do so. That is part of the problem.

And how do you know what God had or had not explained to them ?
The main-thrust of the message to us is that they disobeyed after having been told what to do.
So are you saying that more info would have made them obey ?
We have all the knowledge necessary today - do people obey ??? Don't make me laugh !!! :no:

We quite clearly do not have all the knowledge necessary. We are not omniscient.

 

[Beta]

How exactly do you know if i have failed?
[Exodus 20:9-11 ( NIV )
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.]

It states that we shall work for 6 days. There is no connection between "labour" and "suffering" made here.

I was speaking collectively of mankind not you personally. Well done to you if you already obey God !
In Ex.20v9 it says (implies) a little more than 'just work.' It says we'll do all our work. In God's parlance that means we have free will. But there are very many scriptures telling us to obey HIS WORD or there will be consequences if we get it wrong. God does not give us all info in one sentence or one verse. We have to search the scriptures to blend it all together.

 

[Koldo]

I was speaking collectively of mankind not you personally. Well done to you if you already obey God!
In Ex.20v9 it says (implies) a little more than 'just work.' It says we'll do all our work. In God's parlance that means we have free will. But there are very many scriptures telling us to obey HIS WORD or there will be consequences if we get it wrong. God does not give us all info in one sentence or one verse. We have to search the scriptures to blend it all together.

Many people do obey His word and still suffer. How do you explain this?
Is it because Adam/Eve desobeyed him? Can you say it is fair for God to punish people during 6000 years because of something that wasn't even done by us?

Also, next time you give a passage of the bible as reference to back-up your claims then do make sure it will suffice. Exodus 20:9 speaks strictly of labour. JUST labour. No added meaning to the word "labour" there. It is also NOT implied a little more than just work.

 

[Beta]

Nobody has ever broken the laws of physics, and nobody currently alive will ever do so. That is part of the problem.

We quite clearly do not have all the knowledge necessary. We are not omniscient.

No we may not break laws of physics but they will/can affect us adversly .
Are you saying that with all the knowledge available to us we still can not obey God or at least try , be prepared or willing ?
Something is very wrong with the human mind. :help:

 

[PolyHedral]

No we may not break laws of physics but they will/can affect us adversly .
Are you saying that with all the knowledge available to us we still can not obey God or at least try , be prepared or willing ?
Something is very wrong with the human mind. :help:

If you had all the knowledge available to you, your opinion would either naturally align with God's, or you have a valid argument as to why God's opinion is wrong.

 

[Beta]

How did you come up with the 6000 years of suffering?!
Exodus 20 doesn't support this argument.

And how exactly can it be fair for the entire human race to be punished during 6000 years because of what 2 people had done?

2Pet.3v8..one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. God is not limited by fixed time and we must become flexible in order to understand God. So we have had 4000 years in the OT and 2000 years in the NT = 6000 years sine Adam.
When God concluded all mankind under sin it's because we would all have done like Adam and Eve thus we are all guilty. We should never think we are better than the next man or woman. Only God can make a person better not ourselves.

 

[Beta]

If you had all the knowledge available to you, your opinion would either naturally align with God's, or you have a valid argument as to why God's opinion is wrong.

By him/herself mankind will never reach that stage. they'll be dust and ashes .

 

[Beta]

Good thing I don't believe in god at all. No illness, no suffering and everything is going right in my life.................well, except for NFL bargaining agreement may put a snafu on my Fantasy league.

I'm so glad somebody is doing alright. I must be having your share of suffering - but I don't blame you ! Good luck to you .

 

[Koldo]

2Pet.3v8..one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. God is not limited by fixed time and we must become flexible in order to understand God. So we have had 4000 years in the OT and 2000 years in the NT = 6000 years sine Adam.

I already knew how you came up with the number of 6000 years. What i am asking you is how did you come up with the 6000 years of suffering?

Exodus 20:9 doesn't support the suffering part of your argument.

When God concluded all mankind under sin it's because we would all have done like Adam and Eve thus we are all guilty. We should never think we are better than the next man or woman. Only God can make a person better not ourselves.

Wait, bible reference please? You are making a very big argument here and you need bible reference to back it up. Where in the bible does it say God's conclusion over mankind?

 

[Beta]

Many people do obey His word and still suffer. How do you explain this?
Is it because Adam/Eve desobeyed him? Can you say it is fair for God to punish people during 6000 years because of something that wasn't even done by us?

Also, next time you give a passage of the bible as reference to back-up your claims then do make sure it will suffice. Exodus 20:9 speaks strictly of labour. JUST labour. No added meaning to the word "labour" there. It is also NOT implied a little more than just work.

Ex.20v9 six days you shall labour and do all thy work. This is not saying we shall be doing GOD's work but our own - we will do things according to our own thinking and reasoning. Next v10 begins with a 'But' the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God in it you shall not do any work......v11 ...wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. There is a pronounced distinction between the 6 days of man and the 7th day of God when things are done differently.

 

[Koldo]

Ex.20v9 six days you shall labour and do all thy work. This is not saying we shall be doing GOD's work but our own - we will do things according to our own thinking and reasoning. Next v10 begins with a 'But' the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God in it you shall not do any work......v11 ...wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. There is a pronounced distinction between the 6 days of man and the 7th day of God when things are done differently.

And so what?
It is not related to suffering at all.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

If God is fully sovereign, then everything that happens is at least God's will, even if God doesn't do it himself.

Edit: and we get back to the problem of evil. If God's not indifferent to suffering, then why all the suffering?

Where no oxen are, the manger is clean. You can't have an ox without ox poop. Nobody like ox poop, but you really like the ox when it pulls your crop to market for you. It is impossible for good to exist without evil. They both define each other. Take one, and you take both.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where no oxen are, the manger is clean. You can't have an ox without ox poop. Nobody like ox poop, but you really like the ox when it pulls your crop to market for you.

You can't have one of our regular earthly oxen without poop, but do you really think that God wouldn't be able to solve that problem?

At the very least, even if God couldn't eliminate ox poop altogether, I'm sure he could figure out an ox that poops strawberry-scented gold nuggets or something like that. No?

It is impossible for good to exist without evil. They both define each other. Take one, and you take both.

So then God is as evil as he is good?

Fair enough, and that does solve the problem of evil, but I find this odd coming from a Christian.