Explaining Satanism to Christians.

[etherealascension]

I agree, but the two lead to similar enlightenment, though I do think that its harder to achieve on the Buddhist side, since there are so many obstacles that are avoided instead of overcome.

Satanism and Buddhism also have in commmon the idea of self-deification, moreso on Satanism's side. But Buddhe said that salvation can only come from the self, simillar to the way Satanism tends to be egocentric. In essence, they are quite the opposite. Satanism preaches indulgence, while Buddhism says that worldy indulgence causes pain. Discuss?

 

[Sirktas]

Satanism and Buddhism also have in commmon the idea of self-deification, moreso on Satanism's side. But Buddhe said that salvation can only come from the self, simillar to the way Satanism tends to be egocentric. In essence, they are quite the opposite. Satanism preaches indulgence, while Buddhism says that worldy indulgence causes pain. Discuss?

Self-deification in Satanism is primarily being aware that you are 'in control of your destiny', that the power of the many varieties of manipulation may possibly effect a situation to whatever end. It is selfish, as the satanist perceives that his life revolves around him. He is the god of his universe.

Satanism simply states that there is nothing wrong with intelligently indulging in whatever pleases you, while being aware that moderation, as with many indulgences, is healthy. It would pain a satanist not to indulge, as he believes that it goes against his very nature not to do so.

 

[etherealascension]

I know this is a tad forced, but Buddhism could relate in that respect too. Buddha acknowledged that suffering was inevitable simply because of our nature. Buddhism and Satanism recognize similar ends through similar means with similar obstacles. The difference is that Satanism teaches us to embrace our carnal instinct whereas Buddhism teaches that doing so can be harmful to our spiritual self. However, moderation is key in both respects, so there is still a similarity there.

 

[Erebus]

In essence, they are quite the opposite. Satanism preaches indulgence, while Buddhism says that worldy indulgence causes pain. Discuss?

It depends on the form of Satanism really. For Laveyan Satanism I'd argue that Buddhism is pretty much the polar opposite, without even a common goal to link them for the most part. The concept of "Enlightenment" for example is entirely different with LaVeyan Satanism considering realisation of the Carnal Self as enlightened and Buddhism considering the rejection of the Carnal Self as enlightened (at least, from my somewhat limited understanding of Buddhism).

You could argue that there are similarities in some forms of theistic Satanism (especially those that desire a return to "the source" or whatever name you want to give it) but again, there's often an emphasis on indulging the carnal side too.

I guess the main reason I don't see the two as being all that similar is the manner in which the Self is perceived. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't most Buddhist philosophy see the Self as an illusion to be overcome? If this is the case, then it becomes even harder to reconcile the two as most Satanists, theistic or otherwise see the Self as being not only very real, but also the most important component of our reality.

I'll admit I don't know a great deal about Buddhism, but those are my observations from what I've seen so far.

 

[etherealascension]

Like I said, the similarities are a tad forced. Buddhism, in how I have come to understand it, is not the idea that the self is an illusion, but everything around the self. Your own identity, your own mind is all that you can truly know and believe. Buddha taught to trust nothing, not even him. The only thing that an individual can truly have faith in is himself.

Satanism recognizes this in a less direct way. Satanism is egocentric, focusing on satisfying the self and its carnal desires. Satanism doesn't care whether the outside world is real or not, what's true or false. All that it is concerned with is satisfying the self.

Buddhism does the same thing, but in a less material way. Through enlightenment, the self attains its satisfaction. Buddhism and Satanism share a common goal in satisfying one's own mind and body, the difference is where the satisfaction comes from.

Put it this way. I have two friends (this is a true story, by the way). One considers himself a Satanist, but he focuses on indulgence through less material ways. He meditates (not in a Buddhist sense, but similar), he truly thinks about the universe around him.
I have another friend who is a Buddhist. She, on the other hand, does not focus on satisfying the self through means such as your average Buddhist. She smokes marijuana, she drinks, she's promiscuous. And in her eyes, it brings her closer to self-satisfaction. She does also go through the Buddhist motions of meditation, etc.

Would you not agree that the first friend could easily be called a Buddhist and the second could be a Satanist?

 

[Erebus]

Like I said, the similarities are a tad forced. Buddhism, in how I have come to understand it, is not the idea that the self is an illusion, but everything around the self. Your own identity, your own mind is all that you can truly know and believe. Buddha taught to trust nothing, not even him. The only thing that an individual can truly have faith in is himself.

Satanism recognizes this in a less direct way. Satanism is egocentric, focusing on satisfying the self and its carnal desires. Satanism doesn't care whether the outside world is real or not, what's true or false. All that it is concerned with is satisfying the self.

Buddhism does the same thing, but in a less material way. Through enlightenment, the self attains its satisfaction. Buddhism and Satanism share a common goal in satisfying one's own mind and body, the difference is where the satisfaction comes from.

Put it this way. I have two friends (this is a true story, by the way). One considers himself a Satanist, but he focuses on indulgence through less material ways. He meditates (not in a Buddhist sense, but similar), he truly thinks about the universe around him.
I have another friend who is a Buddhist. She, on the other hand, does not focus on satisfying the self through means such as your average Buddhist. She smokes marijuana, she drinks, she's promiscuous. And in her eyes, it brings her closer to self-satisfaction. She does also go through the Buddhist motions of meditation, etc.

Would you not agree that the first friend could easily be called a Buddhist and the second could be a Satanist?

Those are some very good points and yes I do see where you're coming from. I was under the impression that the Self is to be disposed of in Buddhism. From what you say though, the two can indeed be said to share a similar goal, though the methods of attaining it are rather different.

Frubals for that post by the way, made me have to stop and think for a while

 

[ScottySatan]

Buddhism and Satanism are the opposite. Some traits are common, just as there are with any two religions. But the reasons why those common traits exist are opposite.

 

[etherealascension]

Care to elaborate?

What I posted clearly a very concise, boxed in version. The way I see Buddhism (from reading numerous books on Buddhism including the Dhammapada and books by His Holiness the Dalai Lama as well as learning from and discussing with other Buddhists) is that it is primarily about creating inner peace by, not necessarily ignoring the negativity, but reconciling it. Perhaps my post from above was not the approproate way to put it.

 

[etherealascension]

Selflessness is indeed a key point to Buddhism, but I was focusing on the topic of the self. Buddha himself said "Work out your own salvation". Is that not focused on the self?

What I meant was that when it comes to personal salvation and enlightenment, a Buddhist does look inwards. Yes, a Buddhist will concern himself with others, but that does not mean he ignores himself completely.

EDIT: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/buddha108528.html

 

[ScottySatan]

Care to elaborate?

Who, me?

 

[blackout]

First it needs to be explained to christians
that satanists do not believe either in their satan,
or their god.
(the christian satan or the christian god)

This would be a good place to start, I think.

 

[blackout]

Neither do satanists worship anything/anyone,
in the sense that christians do.

And a BIGGIE,
satanists are not all into sacrifice the way christians are.
Christians' need to believe that satanists
sacrifice (ie, murder) innocent animals and babies and whatnot
is nothing more than slanderous ignorance and accusation
(ie, bearing false witness),
caused by THEIR OWN need for/investment in sacrifice.
(and scapegoat)
Satanists do not revere sacrifice as some kind of a virtue,
or even an "anti" virtue.
They are FAR more interested in Will.
Sometimes they sacrifice other relationships and whatnot
in order to remain true to their Own Will of Self,
but this is effect, rather than cause,
It is an act of integrity of Self.

The whole notion of "altar sacrifice" is metaphorical anyway.
It is a symbolic play.
The literal nature of christianity,
makes the understanding of satanism
a great challange, and a huge leap of understanding
for the christian.
"Satanic Ritual" is basically Psycho Drama,
for the sake of an intended effect.
The theatre of the Self.

All of the christian prop'agenda in regards to "what satanism is"
really does not help.

If any Satanists on this site feel I am off base,
please feel free to correct me.

 

[Jacksnyte]

See, my question is, "why the coloured text?" To bring attention to yourself, to fill a gaping void in your life... or perhaps something else...?

When reading a thread in a forum such as this, one often will scroll down to their previous posts to read responses. It is much easier to find one's posts if they are in a different color than everyone elses. Why do so many Christians feel the need to be antagonistic?

 

[Jacksnyte]

I agree, but the two lead to similar enlightenment, though I do think that its harder to achieve on the Buddhist side, since there are so many obstacles that are avoided instead of overcome.

Satanism is about developing and crystallizing the self/ego/individual personality.
Buddhism is about dissolving the self/ego/individual personality. I would say that the type of enlightenment arrived at by these two camps are not even in the same ballpark! (Unless, of course, you are talking about one of the Tantric branches of Buddhism)

 

[ScottySatan]

See, my question is, "why the coloured text?" To bring attention to yourself, to fill a gaping void in your life... or perhaps something else...?

One of the more interesting parts of the Satanic Bible is about this. It's about personal physical appearance, but it applies here. In a nutshell, it says that it's foolish to criticise or feel superior to someone because they have a personal physical aesthetic that requires some effort. Unless you wear the basest burlap sack and look like John the Baptist, you're guilty of the same thing.

 

[Me Myself]

When reading a thread in a forum such as this, one often will scroll down to their previous posts to read responses. It is much easier to find one's posts if they are in a different color than everyone elses. Why do so many Christians feel the need to be antagonistic?

Heh, It´s ironic that christians feel the need of being satanic xD

 

[pwfaith]

When reading a thread in a forum such as this, one often will scroll down to their previous posts to read responses. It is much easier to find one's posts if they are in a different color than everyone elses. Why do so many Christians feel the need to be antagonistic?

Honestly, I haven't seen Christians here be anymore antagonistic than some other religions I think it's a defense mechanism for some and for others, I don't know. Doesn't make it right, regardless of the religion they're coming from. I think your reasoning for using a different color is very logical, and makes perfect sense (although the bolding hurts my eyes a bit and makes it difficult to read without squinting lol)

I gave a thought out response, from a Christian pov, to the OP [ok well at least I thought it was lol]. Explaining how I have come to understand the beliefs of Satanism. It wasn't antagonistic at all. I didn't get much of a response, just something about them not being able to respond.

 

[Erebus]

Is this the post you meant pwfaith? I'll have a go at answering it, didn't spot it earlier

I don't know that I agree. We don't know that this person is willfully ignorant. There are a lot of misconceptions about almost all religions. I think there is benefit in giving a valid attempt to set the record straight. After that, if they still refuse to understand or listen, then yes, it's best to just let them be in their ignorance.

This is my understanding, as a Christian, someone please correct me if I am wrong. I don't believe it is the worship of Satan (or who we believe to be Satan) himself, but more likely a following of the essence of Satan. Incorporating the ideas, attitudes and characteristics of Satan into daily life and world-views. "You need to do what you want to do because life is short and then you're going to die so live while you can but take no crap from anyone" - to me, is an example of that. It is focused on 'self' and doing what makes the individual feel good. LaVey states about celebrating holidays "The most important holiday in Satanism is one's own birthday, as the birth date of one's own god. To a Satanist, you are the most important being in the universe, and celebrating your own birthday honors your own vital existence." After self is one's family and then community (for some).

It helped me understand, perhaps it will help your friend as well.

That's a pretty accurate summary of LaVeyan values, especially where you mentioned, "following the essence of Satan". Another big part of it that can be a little harder to spot is the emphasis on the power of the mind. Psychology can be used to achieve one's own goals both by altering the way others perceive you and via the way you perceive yourself. For example, if you view yourself as a god in your own right, who can possibly stop you from attaining what you want? The autotheistic principle at work here is empowering, it inspires confidence in one's own abilities and thus makes it easier to do things that another person may be too shy to try.
This and various other principles and theories in the Satanic Bible are all geared towards helping you get what you want out of life.


It's good that you've obviously approached this subject sensibly, a lot of the imagery and metaphor in Satanism is designed to play on societal fears. Aligning yourself with the things that people fear and loathe is one method of giving you a kick in the bum and quickly help you to see the world as being far more subjective than it's commonly thought to be.

If you're interested in theistic Satanism and how it compares with various other religions (LaVeyan Satanism included) here are a couple of the websites I find particularly useful.

Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

DEVIL WORSHIP

As I tend to lean more towards theistic Satanism (though I do find a lot of value in LaVey's Satanism) I'd be more than happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability either on this thread or via PM if you prefer

 

[pwfaith]

Is this the post you meant pwfaith? I'll have a go at answering it, didn't spot it earlier


That's a pretty accurate summary of LaVeyan values, especially where you mentioned, "following the essence of Satan". Another big part of it that can be a little harder to spot is the emphasis on the power of the mind. Psychology can be used to achieve one's own goals both by altering the way others perceive you and via the way you perceive yourself. For example, if you view yourself as a god in your own right, who can possibly stop you from attaining what you want? The autotheistic principle at work here is empowering, it inspires confidence in one's own abilities and thus makes it easier to do things that another person may be too shy to try.
This and various other principles and theories in the Satanic Bible are all geared towards helping you get what you want out of life.


It's good that you've obviously approached this subject sensibly, a lot of the imagery and metaphor in Satanism is designed to play on societal fears. Aligning yourself with the things that people fear and loathe is one method of giving you a kick in the bum and quickly help you to see the world as being far more subjective than it's commonly thought to be.

If you're interested in theistic Satanism and how it compares with various other religions (LaVeyan Satanism included) here are a couple of the websites I find particularly useful.

Theistic Satanism: Diane Vera on today's new kinds of Satanists

DEVIL WORSHIP

As I tend to lean more towards theistic Satanism (though I do find a lot of value in LaVey's Satanism) I'd be more than happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability either on this thread or via PM if you prefer

Thanks! Makes sense I know for me, it really does make perfect sense in light of who we believe Satan to be, does that make sense? lol Not that people worship Satan but rather they truly follow and live by the nature and characteristics we believe Satan to have, hence the title "Satanist". That's the best way I could think to describe it to a fellow Christian. Most Christians know the character and nature of Satan, so explaining it to them as embracing those attributes and living by them, made sense to me. Even though most don't believe in Satan as a being like we do.

Thanks for the links!

 

[Erebus]

Thanks! Makes sense I know for me, it really does make perfect sense in light of who we believe Satan to be, does that make sense? lol Not that people worship Satan but rather they truly follow and live by the nature and characteristics we believe Satan to have, hence the title "Satanist". That's the best way I could think to describe it to a fellow Christian. Most Christians know the character and nature of Satan, so explaining it to them as embracing those attributes and living by them, made sense to me. Even though most don't believe in Satan as a being like we do.

Thanks for the links!

No problem at all

It's true that many (but not all) the values in The Satanic Bible are in direct opposition to Christian values... Hell it's called Satanism for a reason! I can certainly understand why if you believe in Satan, it's easy to see his influence at work. Whether you consider this a good thing or a bad thing is possibly one of the deciding factors in whether or not you're a Satanist at heart

As you look through the two links, you'll probably notice some similarities to LaVeyan Satanism, but probably more similarities to certain forms of Paganism.

Anyway, I'll leave you to have a read through the links and like I say, feel free to ask any questions.