Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Sapiens]

... It is an Argumentum ad populum. Just because the numbers are greater does not make them right.

Fascinating construction, the capital "A" in "Argumentum ad populum" where one is not required. Could it be that Serenity does not actually know that term and had to cut and paste it from Wiki were it is capitalized in just that fashion?

The people I put on ignore are those who are rude, odious, aggressive, bigoted, besmirching and crass. I see no reason why I should come on here and allow myself to be spoken to in such a derogatory manner as Bunyip does, and as his ilk are adept in doing. They are vile human being who I choose to ignore rather then give them oxygen.

I do wish it was not against my code to complain to the Mods, for if ever there was a personal attack that deserved reporting ... well, this is it.

 

[Katzpur]

Written by man, compiled by God.

And which version was the one God compiled?

 

[Sonofason]

I take you wouldn't ever want to try it and see if any God will come out of the woodwork. Don't blame you. Keep calling it an opinion. Im sure it's better that way for you to keep going with that.

You're right Nowhere Man, I have no desire to see God coming out of any woodwork. Experiencing God, as I do, is most rewarding and comforting. I'm already quite satisfied with what God has already given to me. There is no need for me to try to coax Him into doing anything.

 

[Sonofason]

How can you be two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?

If my understanding is correct, it seems that space is something that exists in more than one place at the same time. Light exists in many places at the same time. Life exists in many places at the same time. So what is it that is so difficult for you to understand?

 

[Sapiens]

If my understanding is correct, it seems that space is something that exists in more than one place at the same time. Light exists in many places at the same time. Life exists in many places at the same time. So what is it that is so difficult for you to understand?

Your image can be in many places, not yourself, what is it that is so difficult for you to understand?

 

[Desert Snake]

Yeah -- the good old 'No true Scotsman' fallacy, must have heard that a million times.

Actually I started a thread with this very topic, people who had 'lost' their faith. I did receive various responses to that, but there are factors that one has to consider when examining this issue. Here are some.
-What previous version of Xianity was it
- What aspects of the previous beliefs were 'unbelieved' at some point, and which weren't.
-What other factors besides the religion were causing the problem with said religion.

After some reading on the forums as well, my conclusion is that it actually isn't a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, it is a valid argument, depending on the situation and topic, as Xianity is not some set, strict, monolithic belief system.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I want nothing to do with the evil God of the Bible. I believe him to be made up by men - that wanted to take other people's land - murder the inhabitants, keep slaves, especially sex slaves, concubines. own women. and rape captives and little girls. MURDER of innocent children for the so-called sins of OTHER people! Evil! And it is very evident - when you slow down and actually think about the Bible story you just read!

*

But my answer is right.

 

[savagewind]

And which version was the one God compiled?

I think I agree with him. But there is no version presently which was compiled by God. If it is possible to remove human opinion from it and get back to the original written message that is what was "compiled by God".

Put another way most or all of what we have WAS compiled by God. But what it says now is the twisted version of what God did anthologize. It is there but it is hidden behind the idol of human assessment.

What do you think "he who endures to the end" means? The end of the search, isn't it?

 

[savagewind]

What does Daniel 9:26 mean? "The Messiah cut off with nothing"? Jesus Messiah The Word. wə-’ên means to be nothing.

That is what we have. Leaven bread. Jesus, you know, is UNLEAVENED bread. The Bible is leaven bread.

 

[savagewind]

I imagine brains doing calculations of course to disprove, not prove. So savagewind says Mathew 24:13 means to endure in the search for truth for the meaning of the unleaven bread who is Christ but the enleavened bread is gone ...so nobody gets saved. Reasonable but not right. WHO said the words at Mathew 24:13?

Christ said them. So when you imagine Christ saying them you can put on the end (which if GOD put those on the end would or might, I don't know, be misleading, something God NEVER does.) the words for me.

He who has endured till the end (of the search for truth) is saved for me. So then it is possible to be saved without unleavened bread but not for Christ.

Then the "other sheep" come to mind.

 

[savagewind]

If a person asks a question and an answer comes to them which they like and they become satisfied with it, might they keep looking for the answer? I don't think so.

Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill." John 6:26

Sign 4592. sémeion universally, that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others and known a sign (typically miraculous), given especially to confirm, corroborate or authenticate.

 

[stevevw]

I can sort of understand what you are trying to say. Jesus said He was the way, the truth and the life. He warned us that there would be many false prophets. He said that He was the only way to the Father. Jesus was God incarnate and He came into our material world as a man so that we could know who God was. So when we look at Jesus we are looking at God. This made it clear and we dont have to guess or try and come up with some self made ideas of what and who God is. In Jesus there is no sin yet He was subject to human temptation and didn't give in. He fully trusted God to show us that we to can do the same by trusting in Jesus. Jesus dies for us and paid the ransom for our sins as we are all sinners before God. So in Jesus we have forgiveness and are made righteous before God. So we have to keep our eyes on Jesus and no one else to see God and to come to Him.

 

[savagewind]

I can sort of understand what you are trying to say. Jesus said He was the way, the truth and the life. He warned us that there would be many false prophets. He said that He was the only way to the Father. Jesus was God incarnate and He came into our material world as a man so that we could know who God was. So when we look at Jesus we are looking at God. This made it clear and we dont have to guess or try and come up with some self made ideas of what and who God is. In Jesus there is no sin yet He was subject to human temptation and didn't give in. He fully trusted God to show us that we to can do the same by trusting in Jesus. Jesus dies for us and paid the ransom for our sins as we are all sinners before God. So in Jesus we have forgiveness and are made righteous before God. So we have to keep our eyes on Jesus and no one else to see God and to come to Him.

I think you mean what Serenity7855 is "trying to say". Your post comes after my rambling so it might be assumed you mean savagewind.

I agree with most of your post. But we CAN'T keep our eyes on Jesus. He is The Word. And the word we have is corrupted. The word was corrupted then and amazingly so still is. Jesus wasn't preaching about what would happen. He was preaching about what WAS happening. It is too scary to realize it is still happening so most people don't know it.

 

[Serenity7855]

MY! MY! MY! Thou does judge! And throwing around IMMORALITY accusation again! Watch it!

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you.

The Christian Deity does not exist. So how can I be a disappointment to Deity?

The Bible says YHYH killed David's baby - for David's crimes. Murder of the innocent!

The Bible says YHVH purposefully Hardened Pharaoh's heart to not let the people go - so he could perform some magic Flash!

Then it says he tortured and killed people and animals, and finally the innocent First-born!

SKITZO! Don't let them do it - then Kill them for not doing it!

The Noah's Ark story would also be a case of KILLING the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.

Which is quite funny - because the supposed good family - continued their evil ways soon after landing. LOL!

*

A prime example of someone who knows the words but is clueless to what they mean. Let's start off with what a child is, prior to the age of accountability, in the eyes of God. There were those in the pre-existence who were so valiant, so morally perfect, that it was unnecessary for them to be tried and tested in the flesh. The conclusion was a forgone conclusion. All that was needed of them was to gain a mortal body. God knew these spirits as well as he knew any of his spirit children, so they were used to fulfil special roles. One such role was as a punishment for the heinous sins committed by David. But that is not the end of the story. There is a law, irrevocable decreed in heaven, that there is a consequence to every sin that is committed, if not repented for. David had no remorse about committing adultery. His punishment served two purposes. 1, a just reward for his atrocious sins, and 2. To give passage to one of the valiant spirits to receive celestial glory in heaven with the father. This is a precept that is known and preached by all denominations. Why didn't you know that and make the connection. Is it because your mind didn't want to see that.

This is what study on its own does.

Noah's ark is a parable that could be an actuality. There was not one soul, save it to be Noah, who was without sin. They were all sinners. They had been warned what the consequences of their actions would eventually result in. Like an apple falling to the ground demonstrate a universal law of nature, so does a point in unrepentant sin lead to complete annihilation of the perpetrators. They knew that yet they persisted, as atheists persist today whilst knowing the consequences, like them they to will be punished accordingly. They were responsible for their own deaths. God could not prevent it.

You read, but you do not understand what is being said because you lacked faith in the unconditional love of our father in heaven, and eventually your camel will be enjoying the luxury of your tent whilst you are enduring the storm outside. You have been duped by Satan who smiles upon your failure. The plan of salvation is perfect. There are no discrepancies. There is a perfect reason for every atrocity that you believe took place in the old Testament. You just did not want to see it enough. You failed the test, miserably.

Did you also know that in order to be tried and tested there must be opposition in all things. Without evil one would not know good. It was essential for Noah's extended family to sin otherwise we could not be tested in the flesh. It takes but a little lateral thinking.

 

[Serenity7855]

I can sort of understand what you are trying to say. Jesus said He was the way, the truth and the life. He warned us that there would be many false prophets. He said that He was the only way to the Father. Jesus was God incarnate and He came into our material world as a man so that we could know who God was. So when we look at Jesus we are looking at God. This made it clear and we dont have to guess or try and come up with some self made ideas of what and who God is. In Jesus there is no sin yet He was subject to human temptation and didn't give in. He fully trusted God to show us that we to can do the same by trusting in Jesus. Jesus dies for us and paid the ransom for our sins as we are all sinners before God. So in Jesus we have forgiveness and are made righteous before God. So we have to keep our eyes on Jesus and no one else to see God and to come to Him.

Where in scripture does it say that Jesus was God incarnate. If true, who was Jesus talking to when he said "father, forgive them, they know not what they do", himself. Or perhaps you could explain who these three separate and distinct individuals are?

Matthew 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus was in human form and he did nothing of his own will but he emptied himself and in essence became God. He is not God. But if we want to we can see God through him.

 

[Sonofason]

Your image can be in many places, not yourself, what is it that is so difficult for you to understand?

Sorry, space according to science is something. Light, according to science, is something. I'm not talking about an image of space. I'm not talking about an image of light. You should have noticed, that I was referring to real things that can exist in several places at once. Gravity exists in many places at the same time. Need I go on?

 

[salemabd]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
انا معك انا الايمان بالمسيح عليه السلام منطقي ,لكن الايمان به على انه بشر ياكل الطعام ويمشي في الاسواق , يفرح ويحزن ,يتالم , يجوع ويعرى , الايمان به كنبي ورسول مرسل من الله الذي خلقه , شق سمعه وبصره , اوجده من من ,حبيب الله ,العدم ,الايمان به كنبي ورسول هذا هوالمنطق ,هذا هو العقل , اين انت من ذاتك , روحك وعقلك , كيف لا نتدبر كل هذا , فرق بين الخالق والمخلوق , بين انا وهو , ................

 

[Katzpur]

I think I agree with him. But there is no version presently which was compiled by God. If it is possible to remove human opinion from it and get back to the original written message that is what was "compiled by God".

No verson "presently" is really not the same thing as no version "ever." The Christian canon has changed (with respect to which books were included) many times over the centuries. Did God not compile the previous versions, but then eventually stepped in because man couldn't quite get it right? And what about the Catholic Bible? How do you know that the Bibles you and I use are not missing something that God compiled but which man removed?

Put another way most or all of what we have WAS compiled by God. But what it says now is the twisted version of what God did anthologize. It is there but it is hidden behind the idol of human assessment.

I can go along with that.

What do you think "he who endures to the end" means? The end of the search, isn't it?

I'd say it means until the end of one's life. I think it means to remain faithful throughout one's life.

 

[savagewind]

No verson "presently" is really not the same thing as no version "ever." The Christian canon has changed (with respect to which books were included) many times over the centuries. Did God not compile the previous versions, but then eventually stepped in because man couldn't quite get it right? And what about the Catholic Bible? How do you know that the Bibles you and I use are not missing something that God compiled but which man removed?

As read (red) the books are not from God. As compiled they are. Looking behind what we have ie The Bible (it doesn't matter which one), which God compiled we can see why God compiled them.
What we have is a bad forgery. But the original, all of it, was compiled by God. Might YHVH have wanted more? Maybe.

I'd say it means until the end of one's life. I think it means to remain faithful throughout one's life

To endure to the end faithful means what please?