Fake Covid Vaccination Cards Are on the Rise

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm always prepared to back up my policies.
Study: Those Vaccinated Who Get COVID Carry Less Virus
Where I live there are very few MAGAs, so my odds
in court favor treating Covid 19 as a serious health risk.

I deal with conspiracy theorists, loonies, & extremists
regularly. I face many risks, & make the best decisions
I can. Such is business.

I'll use me as an example.

I visit you and tell you I am not vaccinated.
You tell me I am putting you in danger.
I ask you how?

You can think

1. cause I don't know if you're carrying the virus
2. because study X says you are
3. because you have a potential to spread it to others
4. You're going to kill me

These are just beliefs... yes, I could be, yes study X says this, yes I have the potential, and yes I have the ability t kill you.

But how do YOU know... If I don't have COVID, you're literally not in danger.

You're in danger of your perception of danger-an assumption.

In a pandemic, it is justified.

Anyway.
I judge things on level of risk so if someone is unvaccinated around me so what.... if they traveled, coughed and had shortness of breath, and said they are taking care of their loved one with COVID, THEN I know I'm "in danger." I wouldn't shun them, though... just tell them to step six feet from me

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll use me as an example.

I visit you and tell you I am not vaccinated.
You tell me I am putting you in danger.
I ask you how?

You can think

1. cause I don't know if you're carrying the virus
2. because study X says you are
3. because you have a potential to spread it to others
4. You're going to kill me

These are just beliefs... yes, I could be, yes study X says this, yes I have the potential, and yes I have the ability t kill you.

But how do YOU know... If I don't have COVID, you're literally not in danger.

You're in danger of your perception of danger-an assumption.

In a pandemic, it is justified.

Anyway.
I judge things on level of risk so if someone is unvaccinated around me so what.... if they traveled, coughed and had shortness of breath, and said they are taking care of their loved one with COVID, THEN I know I'm "in danger." I wouldn't shun them, though... just tell them to step six feet from me

I base my beliefs on facts gleaned from epidemiological studies.
Also upon the facts of the situation. Renting an apartment from
me that has air circulation shared with 3 offices means that the
staying 6' away is not sufficient to prevent risk of your infecting
others. These analyses & facts trump your beliefs & desire to
remain unvaccinated.

Someone who refuses vaccination is not worth the elevated
risk posed. I'll instead rent to someone who takes precautions
that minimize risk to others on my property. Covid 19 is not
going away...
‘Goldilocks virus’: Delta vanquishes all variant rivals as scientists race to understand its tricks
....so I judge the risk of a fair housing lawsuit to be less than
renting to an anti-vaxer.

We're each just repeating ourselves at this point.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I base my beliefs on facts gleaned from epidemiological studies.
Also upon the facts of the situation. Renting an apartment from
me that has air circulation shared with 3 offices means that the
staying 6' away is not sufficient to prevent risk of your infecting
others. These analyses & facts trump your beliefs & desire to
remain unvaccinated.

Someone who refuses vaccination is not worth the elevated
risk posed. I'll instead rent to someone who takes precautions
that minimize risk to others on my property. Covid 19 is not
going away...
‘Goldilocks virus’: Delta vanquishes all variant rivals as scientists race to understand its tricks
....so I judge the risk of a fair housing lawsuit to be less than
renting to an anti-vaxer.

We're each just repeating ourselves at this point.

Last sentence, true. Though since you don't know I'd assume you'd do this for everyone cause we don't know if any one have contagious illness. We are all receptable to viruses. Vaccinated included.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

This conversation may be a bit too deep for me to jump into, but while it could so happen that a specific individual I met who had been vaccinated, saved my life, it'd be more likely that the world and the US as a whole, getting vaccinated, would be able to save my life. As far as others getting vaccinated goes, before I factor in whether I am or am not vaccinated myself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Added curiousity. Which makes me wonder since we're going back to masks because of the Delta variant wouldnt it be sensible to deny entry to all people in your business?

We can't judge or determine who is sick and vaccinated have potential to spread the virus,...so what is the percentage of rarity you'd go by to determine how much you're in danger?

 

[Revoltingest]

Last sentence, true. Though since you don't know I'd assume you'd do this for everyone cause we don't know if any one have contagious illness. We are all receptable to viruses. Vaccinated included.

Other diseases are not equivalent to Covid 19.
It's a current dangerous pandemic. Others are not.

You aren't a landlord, are you?
Being one makes one keenly aware of assessing
risks, & minimizing them. I was also a design
engineer, & paid much attention to risk, failure
modes, & prevention.
Your way of seeing things is very foreign to me.
We will not sway each other.

 

[Kenny]

I've said this so many times....
- Not all risks are equally probable.
- Not all risks have equal consequences.
- Not all risk avoidance methods are unreasonable.
- You run your business as you want. I'll run mine the
way want....which is to refuse to lease to anti-vaxers.

That is fine.... is someone who naturally vaccinated through herd immunity, equally not acceptable? And can those who are vaccinated also be "persona non-grata" for private businesses? Or is it just one sided.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is fine.... is someone who naturally vaccinated through herd immunity, equally not acceptable? And can those who are vaccinated also be "persona non-grata" for private businesses? Or is it just one sided.

It is about maintaining reasonable safety.
Herd immunity isn't about the individual, but rather
so many having immunity that the disease cannot
propagate. We're not there yet, so anti-vaxers are
currently an unacceptable business risk.

Note though that I've been addressing a particular
aspect of business, ie, residential renting. I use
anti-vaxer contractors whose circumstances pose
no elevated risk.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Other diseases are not equivalent to Covid 19.
It's a current dangerous pandemic. Others are not.

You aren't a landlord, are you?
Being one makes one keenly aware of assessing
risks, & minimizing them. I was also a design
engineer, & paid much attention to risk, failure
modes, & prevention.
Your way of seeing things is very foreign to me.
We will not sway each other.

We don't know all viruses so it would be wrong to say COVID is worse.

It made me think. Businesses here say vaccinated doesn't need masks. Unvaccinated do.

If you ask people whether they are vaccinated, can those minority wear a mask and adhere to social distancing to go in your store?

It's a go-to for our government and seems the same for experts, so that could be an option?

As a professional did you decide danger based on level of risk?

Doctors do all the time.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, actually, you still do. You are twice as likely to get a new COVID infection as those who are vaccinated.

Too early to tell...

IMV. the immune system recognizes either of the two and develops an immune response.

August 30, 2020, 1,278 patients who initially tested positive later were tested again, 63 (4.9%) showed evidence of reinfection
Reinfection Rates among Patients who Previously Tested Positive for COVID-19: a Retrospective Cohort Study | NCRC

Both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are 95% effective - so 5%... same.

 

[Kenny]

It is about maintaining reasonable safety.
Herd immunity isn't about the individual, but rather
so many having immunity that the disease cannot
propagate. We're not there yet, so anti-vaxers are
currently an unacceptable business risk.

Note though that I've been addressing a particular
aspect of business, ie, residential renting. I use
anti-vaxer contractors whose circumstances pose
no elevated risk.

How many anti-vexers have had covid?

 

[Polymath257]

That is fine.... is someone who naturally vaccinated through herd immunity, equally not acceptable? And can those who are vaccinated also be "persona non-grata" for private businesses? Or is it just one sided.

The phrase 'naturally vaccinated through herd immunity' makes no sense. Herd immunity is where enough of the population is resistant to the virus that the rate of spread is diminished to the point that any person infected is not likely to pass it on to another person. It does not happen on an individual basis.

Furthermore, previous exposure to COVID does not confer as much immunity to new infections as does vaccination. So, if it takes 70% vaccination rate to get herd immunity (one of the smaller numbers), it would take more than that to get herd immunity from simply exposing a lot of people to the virus. The second route would mean many more deaths.

 

[Kenny]

The phrase 'naturally vaccinated through herd immunity' makes no sense. Herd immunity is where enough of the population is resistant to the virus that the rate of spread is diminished to the point that any person infected is not likely to pass it on to another person. It does not happen on an individual basis.

Furthermore, previous exposure to COVID does not confer as much immunity to new infections as does vaccination. So, if it takes 70% vaccination rate to get herd immunity (one of the smaller numbers), it would take more than that to get herd immunity from simply exposing a lot of people to the virus. The second route would mean many more deaths.

You didn't address my statements. That was called nitpicking. Naturally vaccinated creates herd immunity (and even more-so as people get vaccinated)

 

[Revoltingest]

We don't know all viruses so it would be wrong to say COVID is worse.

We needn't know them all.
We never will.
We need only know which ones are creating a pandemic.
That we know.

 

[Revoltingest]

How many anti-vexers have had covid?

I've never counted them.
I know many though.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We needn't know them all.
We never will.
We need only know which ones are creating a pandemic.
That we know.

Yeah. It's our immediate concern. It helps to put things in perspective-but I'd say those who may or may not know they are afraid because of the pandemic. Fear can make one run to get the vaccine to. It can also cause confirmation bias to where they see get the vaccine-numbers-deaths-peer pressure and jump to get it. I feel there should be some level of skepticism but unfortunately we can only "look into it" but so much through the censorship and shaping information to support and/or point to the vaccine. It's sad for lack of better words.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We needn't know them all.
We never will.
We need only know which ones are creating a pandemic.
That we know.

What of the questions, though?

 

[Revoltingest]

Fear can make one run to get the vaccine to.

So can good judgment.

 

[Revoltingest]

What of the questions, though?

Yes, what of them.
When enuf have been answered to allow determining
the best approach, all other questions are irrelevant,
eg, can today's microchips fit thru a hypodermic needle?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, what of them.
When enuf have been answered to allow determining
the best approach, all other questions are irrelevant,
eg, can today's microchips fit thru a hypodermic needle?

I'm not following. I just wanted to know since we're going back to masks can using masks be a better option for the unvaccinated than denying them entry?

Where we live we have vaccinated don't wear masks and unvaccinated wear masks. That way the businesses won't loose money because they provide options (supported by CDC) given the new variant pervading the current vaccine. Many public businesses can't ask who is vaccinated and who isn't. They'd have to trust their consumers.