Fake Covid Vaccination Cards Are on the Rise

[Revoltingest]

I just wanted to know since we're going back to masks can using masks be a better option for the unvaccinated than denying them entry?

Being vaccinated combined with wearing masks
is better than being unvaccinated with wearing masks.

Many public businesses can't ask who is vaccinated and who isn't. They'd have to trust their consumers.

My business is different.
For self storage tenants, I care not about their Covid precautions.
For residential tenants, I require vaccination. This is because
of indoor close contact.

 

[Polymath257]

You didn't address my statements. That was called nitpicking. Naturally vaccinated creates herd immunity (and even more-so as people get vaccinated)

I did address them. Asking about a person who has 'natural immunity from herd immunity' makes no sense. In this post, you compound that by talking about 'naturally vaccinated'. That is no different than 'having been infected'.

And no, it is NOT nit-picking. It is showing you don't have some of the basic knowledge to make an informed decision in spite of your claims.

Having enough people resistant is what produces herd immunity. That resistance can come from being infected or through vaccination. The vaccinations produce *better* immunity, so require fewer people to get to herd immunity.

And, frankly, those who *can* get vaccinated and don't, but rely on herd immunity built up by those that are vaccinated are hoping to simply get a free ride. They are hoping enough *other* people get vaccinated so they don't have to do the right thing themselves.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Being vaccinated combined with wearing masks
is better than being unvaccinated with wearing masks.

CDC and so forth believe masks is enough to be optional until everyone is vaccinated. Extra precaution?

My business is different.
For self storage tenants, I care not about their Covid precautions.
For residential tenants, I require vaccination. This is because
of indoor close contact.

Personally I'd stick with the masks requirements and do what other businesses do: if you have cough, and other X symptoms you cannot enter this building. They say it in different ways that lets consumers know vaccinated or not they are balancing between risk and still not sacrificing potential customers.

Of course this isn't for a residential business. The skating rink I go to can hold at least 100 people and, like stores, have the same precaution. To me I'd need more than being unvaccinated to determine who I should turn away... but of course everyone is different in their level of concern.

 

[ecco]

The difference is that 6% of vaccinated people can get covid.

Insofar as the status of people who had a mild case, there are no definitive statistics on the rate and degree of immunity.

You should know that without having to ask on a forum.

So, then, have a "covid passport" means nothing?

How you came to that conclusion from what I posted is unfathomable.

 

[ecco]

The families of 600,000 of your fellow Americans would disagree with you.

And over 1,500,000 people die every year from pneumonia and influenza... should we have a pneumonia and influenza passport?

Did you note I was referring to the 600,000 dead Americans? Why shift to a worldwide situation?

Did you note that we have had far more Covid deaths (4.3 million) than flu and pneumonia combined?

If there were vaccines for pneumonia and influenza that were 94% effective, then yes, we should have passports.

We didn't need passports to show who was vaccinated for polio because everyone was vaccinated for polio and the disease was pretty much eliminated.

But you are sidestepping the point I was making -- not to mention that there are so many other variables - obesity being one of them as well as age.

The single biggest variable in July/August 2021 is vaccines. 99.99% of people who are fully vaccinated do not even need to go to hospitals. Source: CNN report citing a current study.

Stop living in the past.

If I am sick... I stay home. If you are sick, you shouldn't go to work. But to have a "vaccine passport"? No thank you. Invasion of my medical privacy.

What you mean is: Once you feel sick... Do you not know that there are several days between when a person contracts Covid and when he begins feeling sick? Do you not know that during this time a person is contagious?

But to have a "vaccine passport"? No thank you. Invasion of my medical privacy.

Two points here...

1. You have told everyone reading this thread that you have had Covid. Medical privacy?
2. If I own a restaurant and require proof of vaccination for my employees and my customers, you needn't apply for a job nor for a reservation. That is your decision.

 

[ecco]

Yes... that is fine... and if you sneeze, I can tell you to leave too or command you to go get tested again because 6% of vaccinated people get COVID and we don't know how long the vaccination last.

Duh

 

[ecco]

Which makes me wonder if businesses should not give service to vaccinated because they can still spread the virus. Since level of risk isn't considered, there shouldn't be segregation.

What?

 

[ecco]

And, frankly, those who *can* get vaccinated and don't, but rely on herd immunity built up by those that are vaccinated are hoping to simply get a free ride. They are hoping enough *other* people get vaccinated so they don't have to do the right thing themselves.

So far, it ain't working out too good for them.

 

[Kenny]

I've never counted them.
I know many though.

Maybe the issue is a lot smaller than what the media wants to make it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe the issue is a lot smaller than what the media wants to make it.

What number do they claim?

 

[Kenny]

I did address them. Asking about a person who has 'natural immunity from herd immunity' makes no sense. In this post, you compound that by talking about 'naturally vaccinated'. That is no different than 'having been infected'.

And no, it is NOT nit-picking. It is showing you don't have some of the basic knowledge to make an informed decision in spite of your claims.

Having enough people resistant is what produces herd immunity. That resistance can come from being infected or through vaccination. The vaccinations produce *better* immunity, so require fewer people to get to herd immunity.

And, frankly, those who *can* get vaccinated and don't, but rely on herd immunity built up by those that are vaccinated are hoping to simply get a free ride. They are hoping enough *other* people get vaccinated so they don't have to do the right thing themselves.

Strawman... but you are welcome to continue pounding that drum.

You still make statements without enough proof.

Though not yet peer reviewed, there is a suggested position that natural immunity is better than vaccination..
Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

 

[ecco]

The study details a COVID-19 outbreak that started July 3 in Provincetown, Mass., involving 469 cases. It found that three-quarters of cases occurred in fully vaccinated people. Massachusetts has a high rate of vaccination: about 69% among eligible adults in the state at the time of the study.

Of interest in the article you linked...
Mask mandates.

Jurisdictions might consider expanded prevention strategies, including universal masking in indoor public settings, particularly for large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of SARS-CoV-2 transmission.

The Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 is highly transmissible (1); vaccination is the most important strategy to prevent severe illness and death. On July 27, CDC recommended that all persons, including those who are fully vaccinated, should wear masks in indoor public settings in areas where COVID-19 transmission is high or substantial.* Findings from this investigation suggest that even jurisdictions without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission might consider expanding prevention strategies, including masking in indoor public settings regardless of vaccination status, given the potential risk of infection during attendance at large public gatherings that include travelers from many areas with differing levels of transmission.​

 

[Kenny]

What number do they claim?

Not about numbers but about selling news. When they say "number X not vaccinated, they include those who have had COVID and don't need a vaccine.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not about numbers but about selling news. When they say "number X not vaccinated, they include those who have had COVID and don't need a vaccine.

Who & how many of those?

 

[ecco]

Though not yet peer reviewed, there is a suggested position that natural immunity is better than vaccination..
Necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in previously infected individuals

Beyond "not peer reviewed" (My emphasis)

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.​

Did you notice the last part, or did you choose to omit that from your post for your biased reasons?

How many anti-vexers have had covid?

The better question is how many unvaccinated Americans have died from Covid? Six hundred Thousand.

Here is one...

Neighbors’ Deaths From Covid-19 Have an Arkansas Town Reassessing Vaccines

GREENWOOD, Arkansas—Michael Lejong fully intended to get vaccinated for Covid-19, his wife said, standing in the pavilion that the prominent architect designed for his hometown.

But he was relatively young, very healthy and not overly concerned about the virus. He wanted to get his shots separately from his wife, so he could care for her if she had adverse side effects. She got hers immediately in April and he put his off.

In late June, he began feeling sick and tested positive for Covid-19. A week of mild symptoms turned into extreme fatigue. On July 3, he was admitted to a nearby hospital with low oxygen levels; on the 15th, doctors put him on a ventilator. He died four days later.

The death of the 49-year-old Greenwood native, father of two, community leader, mountain biker and outdoorsman, has rattled this western Arkansas town, where it seems like nearly everyone knew Mr. Lejong. It comes amid a spate of other recent deaths and skyrocketing hospitalizations in a region where many are deeply skeptical of the Covid-19 vaccines, and doctors and political leaders are trying everything to persuade a reluctant populace to take them.

“It’s personal now because he knew so many people,” said his widow, Katie Lejong. “Before, it was happening somewhere else.”​

 

[Polymath257]

Not about numbers but about selling news. When they say "number X not vaccinated, they include those who have had COVID and don't need a vaccine.

Even those that have had COVID are recommended to get the vaccine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What?

This makes me wonder if businesses
edit.
should not give entry to the vaccinated since the vaccinated too have the potential to spread the virus due to the breakthroughs 'and' emergence of the ineffectiveness to protect against the delta variant. They're wondering if the vaccine effects would wear off and proposing maybe to get multiple testing. Maybe segregation would backfire, who knows.

We're going back to masks, so that says a lot about the vaccine not working for the new variant as we feel it does for the original COVID.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Beyond "not peer reviewed" (My emphasis)

This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.​

Did you notice the last part, or did you choose to omit that from your post for your biased reasons?






The better question is how many unvaccinated Americans have died from Covid? Six hundred Thousand.

Here is one...

Neighbors’ Deaths From Covid-19 Have an Arkansas Town Reassessing Vaccines

GREENWOOD, Arkansas—Michael Lejong fully intended to get vaccinated for Covid-19, his wife said, standing in the pavilion that the prominent architect designed for his hometown.

But he was relatively young, very healthy and not overly concerned about the virus. He wanted to get his shots separately from his wife, so he could care for her if she had adverse side effects. She got hers immediately in April and he put his off.

In late June, he began feeling sick and tested positive for Covid-19. A week of mild symptoms turned into extreme fatigue. On July 3, he was admitted to a nearby hospital with low oxygen levels; on the 15th, doctors put him on a ventilator. He died four days later.

The death of the 49-year-old Greenwood native, father of two, community leader, mountain biker and outdoorsman, has rattled this western Arkansas town, where it seems like nearly everyone knew Mr. Lejong. It comes amid a spate of other recent deaths and skyrocketing hospitalizations in a region where many are deeply skeptical of the Covid-19 vaccines, and doctors and political leaders are trying everything to persuade a reluctant populace to take them.

“It’s personal now because he knew so many people,” said his widow, Katie Lejong. “Before, it was happening somewhere else.”​

This doesn't mean much because unvaccinated have always been at risk whether others are vaccinated or not.

You'd have to prove that the rise in the unvaccinated infections are not perceived relative to the vaccinated person's point of view, and not just from not being unvaccinated (before and after the vaccine was introduced).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Being vaccinated combined with wearing masks
is better than being unvaccinated with wearing masks.

My business is different.
For self storage tenants, I care not about their Covid precautions.
For residential tenants, I require vaccination. This is because
of indoor close contact.

This is kinda off topic, but is there something all people who caught COVID (vaccinated breakthrough symptoms and unvaccinated infected) that doesn't relate to their vaccinations status?

Of course unvaccinated people are more acceptable to the virus-we have always been, so that isn't new information and shouldn't be used as a guilt-trip. I wonder if there is something both parties have in common that made them caught COVID and died from it compared to those who have no unvaccinated and not.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is kinda off topic, but is there something all people who caught COVID (vaccinated breakthrough symptoms and unvaccinated infected) that doesn't relate to their vaccinations status?

Of course unvaccinated people are more acceptable to the virus-we have always been, so that isn't new information and shouldn't be used as a guilt-trip. I wonder if there is something both parties have in common that made them caught COVID and died from it compared to those who have no unvaccinated and not.

I've read of many factors, eg, blood type, age.
I expect that time will yield an improved picture
of associations.