False Prophets

[QuestioningMind]

I'm wondering how people try to distinguish between "true" prophets and "false" prophets. If someone walks down the street claiming to be a prophet for a religion (admittedly unlikely) you have to figure out whether you can take them at their word or whether you just move on trying to avoid making eye contact with the crazy person.

I think probably the best way to tell if someone were a false prophet is if they offer salvation. In reality, no-one can save us. There is no quick fix or easy solution to the problems of learning how to live our own lives. It is up to us to "save ourselves" by giving our lives meaning and purpose. The best we can get is to find spiritual and religious knowledge, be open to it and for someone to help us on our own journey. The higher level of consciousness associated with religious being is ultimately part of our own anatomy. It is part of our brain or mind (or soul if you wish). A false prophet can take away our ability to "see" and to "hear" from us by telling us to look for answers outside of ourselves in some external authority. The "true" prophet is someone who can help us regain our sight and hearing and learn to use our own conscience for the purpose of self-discover and self-creation.

Do you think this is a reasonable view? Or is there something missing?

That's easy. If someone claims to be a prophet, you know that they are a false prophet, since true prophets don't actually exist.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Do you know of any Prophets post mid 7th Century who fit the bill? I certainly don't.

I would question any prophet who just sits there and says all the other ones were completely right. I like a little honesty with my prophets. If all a prophet says is that all the other ones were right, then we don't really need the most current one, right? And that's not just for Islam, for Christianity also pays lip service honor to Jewish prophets and yet that would mean we wouldn't need Jesus.

I don't want to turn this into yet another anti-Islam thread, but there is only one religion that does not take kindly to anything approaching criticism - especially against its prophet.

I dunno. Christianity can get pretty uppity about it too. Can't even take a knee without some crazy trying to kill you or hurt you because you offended "God" or something.

Criticism is welcome, but over stepping the mark and attempting to vilify ANY of the prophets of GOD should be met with a firm, no nonsense response.

But can some people tell the difference?

Could have sworn that that was god and not the Jews.

Personally, I feel the entire Exodus story is just a military parable. Much like how we use codewords "the eagle flew the nest" or whatever, most of what we are seeing are actually coded military propaganda and the "angel of death" was just a militia group of sorts going around killing people left and right. That is why lamb's blood is the "safe word", so to speak, because it makes God look foolish that He can't tell Egyptians from Hebrews in the first place without an announcement.

I can't even think of any person that fit the bill after the pre 1st Century.

I can barely think of anyone worth their salt pre 1st century.

Maybe Deborah and Hosea. Maybe. However Jael had the drop the mic moment really. Hosea's just famous for tolerating a woman who clearly didn't think he was good enough in bed.

Moses is considered a reliable prophet because the entire nation heard G-d speak to Moses at Mt. Sinai.

Moses wasn't listened to very often throughout the entire "40 years for what takes 2 weeks to walk" trip. We may hold him in esteem now, but the people who were led by him weren't all that impressed.

King Solomon pbuh honoured Moses pbuh by marking the spot of the crossing with a Stone Pillar.

How did he know? He wasn't there.

 

[Tumah]

Moses wasn't listened to very often throughout the entire "40 years for what takes 2 weeks to walk" trip. We may hold him in esteem now, but the people who were led by him weren't all that impressed.

That's true but that doesn't have to do so much with the status Moses had as much as with our lack of desire to follow G-d's commands. I mean, we all heard G-d speaking at Mt. Sinai, yet before Moses even gets back down the mountain with the Tablets a little over a month later, we're already melting gold into animals gods.

 

[Nakosis]

I think that if there were a simple formula for identifying "true" prophets from "false" prophets, then the false prophets would mimic the formula. Hence, any "true" prophet would distinguish himself in a unique way instead of according to a set formula, "All true prophets do X."

Like being resurrected?

 

[MohammadPali]

Judaism believes that the prophet mohammad pbuh is not a messenger or a prophet not because hes wrong, he was never wrong, and they know that, its because he was illiterate and to judaism they believe no prophet was illiterate ever. The first person in medina to become a muslim, was abdallah ibn salam. He was not just a jew, but the best learned jew in medina.

Adam was illiterate and so where many other prophets for example ezekiel pbuh maybe illiterate in isaiah chapter 29 verse 12 I believe . That's part of some prophethood is illiteracy. But they want to deny this because they don't want to be wrong. They want redemption. They want the messiach, they don't want no son of ismail, no way, they rejected moses, they rejected jesus, they rejected noah, they rejected mohammad, they even rejected euzair and some of them call him a son of god, may allah be pleased with them.

Its not the first time and its not the last time they rejected prophets because it doesn't fit their criteria. Not gods criteria they are not interested in gods criteria, their criteria and that's one of the things EZEKIEL pbuh spoke about.

You don't need a single muslim to criticize judiasm, just open up ezekiel look at this anger, this rage, that god is so angry at them. My god, he leveled you, he destroyed you, and still yet again, JESUS and Mohammad pbuh them you reject them just as swiftly as you did moses. In less than a year about a month, you rejected moses pbuh. But you accepted simon kokhbah, a false messiah, and he helped destroy the very nature of your religion, and still not repentance.

Jesus pbuh, knowledge came to him as a baby. Thats why the pharisees raged. From the tribe of david came a poor man with no army and no kingdom, (ONCE AGAIN didn't fulfill that judiac criteria of messiah) Its why in the talmud they gave references that jesus pbuh was possessed as soon as he was born. Possessed by an egyptian magi, or magus (majoos) zoroastrian. He spoke as a baby directly to the people, and they firmly rejected him, insulting this mother at the same time, and the family of aaron.

God came down and sent all these phrophets and messengers as a mercy for mankind. Mohammad pbuh is the last one. There is no others after him. Revelations are finished in islam, there is no such thing as another prophet after the last one. Hes the seal, and the last. Finished, the only revelation mankind will witness is in mecca when the mahdi shows up.

 

[Scrooge]

The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy; this is the Faith that is available to all through the Gospel.

First let’s take a look at the word prophesy throughout the Bible. In the Hebrew one word it is translated from is the word naba. It simply means to speak or sing by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse). In oldest forms it was thought of as a religious ecstasy, with or without song and music. Later in the word’s etymology it was understood as essentially religious instruction, with occasional prediction.

Another Hebrew word that prophecy was translated from is nataph. It means to drip; to ooze, i.e. distil gradually; by implication, to fall in drops; figuratively, to speak by inspiration.

Here is how the word Naba is defined in Jeff A. Benner’s “Ancient Hebrew Lexicon of the Bible”.



Bn% (Bn% NB) ac: Flourish co: Fruit ab: Prophecy: The pictograph n is a picture of a seed, the b is a picture of a tent or house representing what is inside. Combined these mean "seed inside". A fruit hides the seeds inside it.





Abn% (Abn% NBA) ac: ? co: Prophet ab: Prophecy: A fruit produced from the inside of man. A knowledge of something that is not known by the five senses.


Aibn% (Aibn% N-BYA) - Prophet: One who brings forth the inner fruit. [Hebrew and Aramaic] [freq. 320] |kjv: prophet, prophecy…

So a prophet is one who is caught up in religious ecstasy; zeal. Speaking through the seed that has been planted in them; the Holy Spirit, the Inner fruit. They cannot help themselves, it is who they are, their cup runneth over; words of inspiration, Divine instruction oozing about and through them. For we are the Temple of God, the Body of Christ. It is God that worketh in us both to will and do His good pleasure through his indwelling Spirit. Christ in you the hope of Glory.

Ecstasy; Enter into The joy of the Lord. Be zealous, on fire, boiling over, oozing with good works through love. For he is love. And, "As He is so are we in this world."

Let us now take a look at the Written Word. Revelation and the Gift of the Gospel.....

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 12:17


Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12


And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10
　
We keep the commandments of God through the faith in which we have, which is the Faith in which he has. That GOD through us does HIS will. This is our and HIS testimony, the witness of Jesus through God's indwelling Spirit; the Spirit of prophecy.

For we and our Father Yahovah GOD are one through the Body of Christ, the Temple of God. It is he that worketh in us both to will and do His good pleasure. He doeth the work and will lead us into all truth. This is the Spirit of Prophesy working in and through us. This what we keep and We Guard with our very lives.


This is the Gospel; This is why John and Paul through the Holy Spirit shared this.

　But ye have an unction (Anointing in the Greek) from the Holy One, and ye know all things. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:20, 26-27; Rom 1:17


And why Jeremiah, Moses and Paul prophesied.


Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ,the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ, the Word, all that GOD would have us be. HIS Commandments again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Word, the commandments manifested in the flesh, Our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, in thy heart, and in thy hand: that we may do it; this is, THE WORD OF FAITH IN WHICH WE PREACH.

And that is the Gospel, the Kingdom of GOD within you. For GOD hath said, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." And HE shall be our GOD and we shall be HIS people, for it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Christ (the Word, His Commandments, GOD's will ) in you the hope of Glory


Romans 10:6-8 and Deut. 30:11-14 are speaking the same premise as of that which is found in Hebrews 8:10,11 and Jeremiah 31:33. It is just worded different. The Gospel, the New Covenant theme is interwoven throughout the Holy Writ; written various ways.


His Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide us into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew us things to come. John 16:13


Each and every believer through the Faith that is through the Gospel of God have a direct link with the Father through His Christ and can and will prophesy through Word or action through GOD's Spirit. IT IS HOW WE EXIST AS CHRISTIANS. For it is certain in him we live, and move, and have our being. This is the Faith which is the testimony of Jesus; the Spirit of Prophecy in which we keep. For we as the Body of Christ proclaim, “My FATHER in me; HE doeth the works" And GREATER WORKS THAN THESE SHALL WE DO BECAUSE HE WENT TO THE FATHER. (Acts 17:28; John 14:10)


Not because of what we do but because of who He is. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet Not us but Christ liveth in us. The life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the son of God. For it is God that worketh in us both to will and do His good pleasure.


This is the GOSPEL and how HE taketh away the sins of this world. This is the Faith in which we speak; the Testimony of Jesus, Spirit of Prophecy.

A new heart, new mind, new mouth, equals new words. Hence we can not help ourselves, for out of the abundance of our hearts through the Gospel the mouth speaketh.



And He has said," For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."

Matt 12:34; Luke 21:15



We are a New Creature. Old things have past away; behold all things are new and of God who hath given us the ministry of reconciliation.

It is who we are or who we can become in Christ Jesus. Not us but Christ in us, the hope of Glory.

The end time people will keep the commandments of God and have the Faith, the Testimony of Jesus Christ, which is the Spirit of Prophecy.

As John and Peter professed so do we. Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.



A true Christian's heart and mind is transformed. Our words and actions will declare it through the Spirit that lives within. For God would that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! Num 11:29

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of Faith. The true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

All flesh has had and will continue to have His Spirit poured upon them until that great and dreadful day. Thankfully the Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance; Faith. So come and enter into the joy of the LORD.

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance; Faith? For it is God which worketh in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. That our ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Every good giving, and every perfect gift, is, from above, coming down from the Father of lights—with whom is no alternation, nor shadow cast, by turning. That we may be the children of our Father which is in heaven: for He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. So that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that we are without excuse: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are themselves the law: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. (Rom 12:3; Joh 1:9; Mat 5:45; Php 2:13; Rom 2:4; Is 30:21; Jas 1:17; 2Pe 3:9; Rom 1:19-20,

 

[Magus]

Mr Moses forgot to write 'thou shalt not rape '

The oldest scriptures, which date 1275 BCE , that is Original and intact is
the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

* Not a single original Book of either the Bible and Quran as being discovered

The Book of the Dead 1275 BCE
- 1. Thou Shalt not Kill *FIRST Rule ( It is priority 6 in the Torah)
- 2 . Thou Shalt not rape or commit adultery ( You won't find that in the Bible/Quran)
-3 . Thou shalt not avenge thyself nor burn with rage ( Muslim kill cartoonists )
- 4 Thou shalt not cause terror. ( That's certainly not in the Quran )
-5 Thou shalt not assault anyone nor cause anyone pain. ( Female/male genital circumcison )
-6 Thou shalt not cause misery
-7 Thou shalt not do any harm to man or to animals. ( Halal/Kosher)
-8 Thou shalt not cause the shedding of tears. ( Jews treatment of Palestinians, ISIS Terrorists)
- 9 Thou shalt not wrong the people nor bear them any evil intent
-10 Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you ( Jews steal everything)
-11 Thou shalt not take more than thy fair share of food. ( Jews )
12 Thou shalt not damage the crops, the fields, or the trees. ( Catholics destroying trees in Brazil)
13 Thou shalt not deprive anyone of what is rightfully theirs. ( Jews)

By Ancient Egyptian standards, Abrahamic people are monsters , good job i ain't one of those people.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Raelians believe those that preach God and those who preach evolution are the false prophets. To me it's like these are the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Something like that. Peace.

 

[Grandliseur]

Do you think this is a reasonable view? Or is there something missing?

The problem is when you dismiss all things. Then you most likely are missing things. And, in this case you are.

I think probably the best way to tell if someone were a false prophet is if they offer salvation.

Here we have two problems. One is which authority on all religious matters do we accept, do I accept.
The next problem is, the prophet. If s/he speaks against the authority, s/he would be false. If s/he would say something that turns out to be untrue, "The end of the world is coming tomorrow!" but it didn't, then he is a false prophet if it was said as a prophecy.

If you don't believe in God, speaking about prophets is kind of going off the track, I think. Without a God existing, prophets couldn't exist either. In that case, all prophets would be false.

 

[Grandliseur]

Mr Moses forgot to write 'thou shalt not rape '

The oldest scriptures, which date 1275 BCE , that is Original and intact is
the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

* Not a single original Book of either the Bible and Quran as being discovered

The Book of the Dead 1275 BCE
- 1. Thou Shalt not Kill *FIRST Rule ( It is priority 6 in the Torah)
- 2 . Thou Shalt not rape or commit adultery ( You won't find that in the Bible/Quran)
-3 . Thou shalt not avenge thyself nor burn with rage ( Muslim kill cartoonists )
- 4 Thou shalt not cause terror. ( That's certainly not in the Quran )
-5 Thou shalt not assault anyone nor cause anyone pain. ( Female/male genital circumcison )
-6 Thou shalt not cause misery
-7 Thou shalt not do any harm to man or to animals. ( Halal/Kosher)
-8 Thou shalt not cause the shedding of tears. ( Jews treatment of Palestinians, ISIS Terrorists)
- 9 Thou shalt not wrong the people nor bear them any evil intent
-10 Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you ( Jews steal everything)
-11 Thou shalt not take more than thy fair share of food. ( Jews )
12 Thou shalt not damage the crops, the fields, or the trees. ( Catholics destroying trees in Brazil)
13 Thou shalt not deprive anyone of what is rightfully theirs. ( Jews)

By Ancient Egyptian standards, Abrahamic people are monsters , good job i ain't one of those people.

Rape - not the word, the act - is mentioned:

Deuteronomy 22:23-27 23 “In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, 24 YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.

25 “If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, 26 and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. 27 For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.
​

 

[Muslim-UK]

I'm not sure you're following. In order for a person to be accepted as a prophet, they first must pass the test of describing future events exactly. Then they can be believed as a prophet. That's the order.

Earlier you quoted Deuteronomy 18 which actually foretells the coming of a non Jewish Prophet:

You posted verses 20-21 explaining the test of Prophethood, but the context starts in verse 15:


15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

So here the Israelites and all those present, (brethren) are told a Prophet is going to come from the non Jews, they panic and request GOD does not speak to them all as he did on the day of assembly, they neither want to hear or see Him out of fear and awe. GOD agrees and tells Moses pbuh, the Prophet to come will only speak the words that GOD places in his mouth.

So let me ask you, verse 19 makes it clear you must listen to this Prophet as GOD will hold you to account if you refuse. Who was this Prophet?

1 Sam 3:19 And Samuel grew up and G-d was with him and did not cause any of his words to fall to the ground.
3:20 And all of Israel knew from Dan to Be'er Sheva that Samuel is trustworthy to prophecy of G-d.

Notice, no messages, no prophecies. He hasn't started his career as a prophet to the people yet. The first stage is that everything he says will happen, happens (v. 19). Then he gets his kosher certification (v. 20).

He was adopted and raised by the High Priest, so yes would have been instantly accepted. I have no issue with this, but Deut 18 is talking about a non Jewish Prophet.

That doesn't seem to have happened in the case of Muhammad.

That's because he was from the line of Ishmael pbuh, whom some amongst the Israelites tried to eradicate from their history books.

Besides for that, he failed by virtue of having contradicted Moses' prophecy. Moses told us that we should not add or subtract to the commandments (Deut. 13:1) and Muhammad did both. Moses told us that the commandments are eternal and Muhammad negated them.

As others have mentioned, you don't have anything written by Moses pbuh, you have a gap from his death to the first written manuscripts of over 1,000 Years! And what warning did Moses pbuh give as death neared:

For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:29)

"How can you say, 'We [The Jews] are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

My entire nation heard G-d speak to Moses. We know clearly that Moses is a prophet. No one heard G-d speak to Muhammad. Why would we trust Muhammad over Moses?

The assembly requested God not address them directly as per Deut 18. As for not trusting Muhammad pbuh, you trust your Bible which records just how rebellious the Israelites were. You trust Scholars who have shown the Torah was not transmitted reliably and has undergone rewrites, copy pastes, deletions and additions.

You did say that. But look again. You said the test is that they preach worship and submission. As a side note you pointed out that they also bring signs.

The Jews were forbidden from teaching the Torah to the Gentiles, when GOD revealed the Qur'an, it was unmatched by anything of the time, and it told the Israelites the truth of what they had been concealing, the warnings, the covenants made etc and reminded them of their rebellion, encouraging them follow the light of the Qur'an or be amongst the losers. This is why as Muhammad Pali pointed out, the most learned Jewish Scholar reverted to Islam on hearing Muhammad's pbuh message.

In any case, bringing signs doesn't qualify one as a prophet per Deut. 13:2-6. And that's logical, since someone not familiar with sihr would otherwise be tricked into believing a false prophet.

Again Deut 13 doesn't apply to Allah swt, for He is the GOD of Abraham pbuh, and we know this because YOUR most learned Scholars agree we worship the same GOD, hence a Jew is not only permitted to enter a Mosque, but may also pray there. Quite a contrast from the Jewish rules on Christianity, which means you can't even come near a Church, or even enter it, as Triune Godhead is considered complete idolatry.

I'm not sure that because one event took place at Mt Sinai that it automatically becomes central to G-d's plan. I'd guess that that area would feature a bit more prominently in Jewish sources were that the case.

Remember Deut 18 and recall the promise GOD made to Hagar, may GOD be pleased with her. Don't worry about Ishmael pbuh, I will look after the lad, and he will give rise to a Great Nation. Where did Ismael pbuh settle? In Arabia and this promise didn't go down too well with some of the Israelites. God going to bless the non Jews?! Yes and it will be a NEW Covenant, as mentioned in Isaiah 42

I'm also not sure what you mean by "First House of G-d". The Temple was on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, not at Mt. Sinai in whatever country it was.

The Kaaba in Mecca, but that's a discussion for another day. For now all you have to do is identify the Prophet mentioned in Deut 18, using the hints given in Isaiah 42.

Salam

 

[Muslim-UK]

I would question any prophet who just sits there and says all the other ones were completely right. I like a little honesty with my prophets. If all a prophet says is that all the other ones were right, then we don't really need the most current one, right? And that's not just for Islam, for Christianity also pays lip service honor to Jewish prophets and yet that would mean we wouldn't need Jesus.

God explains in the Qur'an, the previous Scriptures had changed and become corrupted, people had taken their Scholars as gods, besides GOD. The slander you read in the OT about drunk, incestuous, murdering prophets are stories created to undermine the integrity of the previous Prophets. God chooses the best from amongst His creation to carry forth his message. Islam is nothing new, it's just calling people back to the straight path:

17 times a day we recite the following:

Arabic first, but it is then recited in English so you may understand:

But can some people tell the difference?

As in all cultures, religions etc, sadly no not all are blessed with sufficient intellect to discern between the two. May GOD increase them all in wisdom and patience.

How did he know? He wasn't there.

Someone used their stone printer, drawing a crude but rather effective map :/ If that sounds far fetched then perhaps it was a oral tradition passed down from pilgrims who visited the spot? Who knows except King Solomon pbuh.

 

[Tumah]

I should have known as a Muslim that you'd go there.

Earlier you quoted Deuteronomy 18 which actually foretells the coming of a non Jewish Prophet:

You posted verses 20-21 explaining the test of Prophethood, but the context starts in verse 15:


15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

So here the Israelites and all those present, (brethren) are told a Prophet is going to come from the non Jews, they panic and request GOD does not speak to them all as he did on the day of assembly, they neither want to hear or see Him out of fear and awe. GOD agrees and tells Moses pbuh, the Prophet to come will only speak the words that GOD places in his mouth.

No. I'm sorry. I know this is what apparently every single Muslim is taught. But it's simply wrong. It's just grasping at straws in an effort to find any sort of letter that might vaguely be able to be interpreted as referring to Muhammad. Let's do this:

Verse 9 starts out with an admonition not to behave like the nations currently occupying the Land of Israel that the nation was about to enter. The following verses list nine practices that are performed by the resident Canaanites that are prohibited to Jews. The last few are various types of divination using different means. Verse 12 says that G-d is driving them out of the country for these practices.

Verse 13 and 14 tells us to be faithful to G-d: those nations practice these methods of divination - which we may not. Rather than follow these prohibited diviners - verse 15 goes on to say - G-d will establish prophets for us to provide us with any foretelling we should happen to need. Verses 16 - 18 make a side note: when we were at Mt. Sinai hearing G-d talk, we requested that rather than continue to hear straight from G-d, He provide us with intermediary messengers. G-d acquiesces, indeed, He would raise up prophets from the nation with which to guide us. Verse 19 commands us to listen to such a prophet on pain of death. Verse 20 prohibits the potential false prophet from becoming so. Verse 21 and 22 provide us with a means of distinguishing between the true and false prophet.

That is the context of the entire passage. It's one continuous flow.

Now to address you're ridiculous claim. Verses 15 and 18 repeat the same idea: the prophet would be from the brothers of the Jews, just like Moses [was from the brothers of the Jews]. The fact that this prophet would be Jewish is repeated three times: from your/their midst, form your/their brothers, like Moses [who fits both these qualities]. This is not a prophecy. This is G-d [and Moses] letting us know that there would be future prophets after Moses. It's not about a single prophet, it's about the prophetic establishment. Which is why it's put in context to contrast Canaanite soothsayers , soothsaying is prohibited but G-d is providing us with a different option in the form of the prophetic establishment.

Just in case you're not convinced for some absurd reason, let's contrast Deut. 18:18 with 17:15

The passage over there opens with verse 14: when you guys comes into the land that you will inherit and decide to make a king over yourselves just like all the other nations have, you have to use the king that G-d decides. Let's see that:

17:15 A king you shall place upon you, that G-d your G-d has chosen; from the midst of your brothers you shall place a king upon yourself. You may not put a foreign man who is not your brother.

18:18 A prophet I will raise for them from the midst of their brothers, like you. And I shall place My words in his mouth and he shall speak to them everything I will command him.

You may not be aware, but when we entered the Land of Israel, we eventually did in fact desire to make a king over ourselves just like the other nations had. Can you guess from which nation a king was chosen all three times a new monarchical line was raised?

So let me ask you, verse 19 makes it clear you must listen to this Prophet as GOD will hold you to account if you refuse. Who was this Prophet?

As I hope is clear to you now, it was every single prophet from Moses until the in-gathering of the Babylonian exile when prophecy ended.

He was adopted and raised by the High Priest, so yes would have been instantly accepted.

That's a nice thought, but it doesn't say that he was accepted because he was the High Priest's protege. It says that exactly was Deut. 18 says: everything he said always came true, so he was accepted.

You should also read about Eli's the High Priests own children if you think that because he was raised by the High Priest he would be accepted.

I have no issue with this, but Deut 18 is talking about a non Jewish Prophet.

No.

That's because he was from the line of Ishmael pbuh, whom some amongst the Israelites tried to eradicate from their history books.

Ishmael is only tangentially related to our history. He never really made it in to our history books in the first place.

As others have mentioned, you don't have anything written by Moses pbuh, you have a gap from his death to the first written manuscripts of over 1,000 Years! And what warning did Moses pbuh give as death neared:

For I know that after my death ye will become utterly corrupt, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. (Deuteronomy 31:29)

"How can you say, 'We [The Jews] are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

This idea that the Torah was altered by the Scribes is a slippery slope, innit? If the Scribes changed the Torah, then maybe Moses never said Deut. 18, Deut. 31 nor did the prophet speak the words of Jer. 8:8?

That being the case, why exactly are you quoting them?

The assembly requested God not address them directly as per Deut 18.

Right. After they had already heard G-d speak and decided it would be in their best interest to not continue to do so.

As for not trusting Muhammad pbuh, you trust your Bible which records just how rebellious the Israelites were. You trust Scholars who have shown the Torah was not transmitted reliably and has undergone rewrites, copy pastes, deletions and additions.

You have misunderstood something somewhere. The rebellious Israelite were not the people who saved prophecies admonishing their rebelliousness for posterity. Right? That wouldn't really make so much sense. If they were rebelling against G-d, why are they saving His prophecies to us...?

The prophets and prophets-in-training and other assorted righteous individuals were the ones who saved these prophecies.

The Jews were forbidden from teaching the Torah to the Gentiles, when GOD revealed the Qur'an,

Although there is some debate about it, the parts of the Torah that we're forbidden from teaching non-Jews is generally not believed to be the simple explanation of the Torah or historical Midrash. There wouldn't be a problem to relate those things over to the author(s) of the Qur'an.

And even if it were prohibited, saying that because it's prohibited no Jew would transgress the command right after going on about how Jews are rebellious, well, I have to wonder where the logic is.

it was unmatched by anything of the time, and it told the Israelites the truth of what they had been concealing, the warnings, the covenants made etc and reminded them of their rebellion, encouraging them follow the light of the Qur'an or be amongst the losers.

Sermon or rant? You decide!

This is why as Muhammad Pali pointed out, the most learned Jewish Scholar reverted to Islam on hearing Muhammad's pbuh message.

Oh really! And what is the name of this most learned Jewish scholar who came in contact with Muhammad and became a Muslim?

Again Deut 13 doesn't apply to Allah swt, for He is the GOD of Abraham pbuh,

Whatever it is you intended to say over here, got lost in the typing of it.

and we know this because YOUR most learned Scholars agree we worship the same GOD, hence a Jew is not only permitted to enter a Mosque, but may also pray there.

What's that got to do with anything? That has nothing to do with Muhammad, that's got to do with the nature of your beliefs. Although it's not discussed because of the newness of the religion, we can also pray in Baha'i temples and any other pure monotheistic place of worship that believes in the G-d of Abraham.

Quite a contrast from the Jewish rules on Christianity, which means you can't even come near a Church, or even enter it, as Triune Godhead is considered complete idolatry.

No, it's not considered complete idolatry. It's called ****uf or in Arabic, shirk. It's ascribing a partner to G-d. They believe in G-d, which isn't idolatry. They also believe that a human is a god, which is idolatry. That's not the same as pure idolatry.

Remember Deut 18 and recall the promise GOD made to Hagar, may GOD be pleased with her. Don't worry about Ishmael pbuh, I will look after the lad, and he will give rise to a Great Nation. Where did Ismael pbuh settle? In Arabia and this promise didn't go down too well with some of the Israelites. God going to bless the non Jews?!

I don't know a single Jew who has a problem with this passage. I think you just have a mistaken idea about what you believe the word "great" means. See Deut. 26:5 "great, mighty, numerous". We came down "few in number" and became very numerous. This prophecy about Ishmael's children has come true as well. There are many, many Ishmaelites today. Do you think that Ishmaelites were the only non-Jewish people blessed? See Gen. 26:4. Everybody gets blessed.

Yes and it will be a NEW Covenant, as mentioned in Isaiah 42

There is no new covenant mentioned in Isaiah 42.

You don't think I watch these videos of other people's arguments do you? Be a man and make your own arguments.

The Kaaba in Mecca, but that's a discussion for another day. For now all you have to do is identify the Prophet mentioned in Deut 18, using the hints given in Isaiah 42.

Salam

The only thing I could find was some fishing and grasping at straws. Nothing really substantial. Maybe you have something else?

 

[Magus]

Rape - not the word, the act - is mentioned:

Deuteronomy 22:23-27 23 “In case there happened to be a virgin girl engaged to a man, and a man actually found her in the city and lay down with her, 24 YOU must also bring them both out to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones, and they must die, the girl for the reason that she did not scream in the city, and the man for the reason that he humiliated the wife of his fellowman. So you must clear away what is evil from your midst.

25 “If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, 26 and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. 27 For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.
​

Thou Shalt not Rape , FOUR words is all that's needed.

I think you missed a verse, the rape victim is too marry to rapist.

Deuteronomy 22:28-9
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

 

[Grandliseur]

Thou Shalt not Rape , FOUR words is all that's needed.

I think you missed a verse, the rape victim is too marry to rapist.

Deuteronomy 22:28-9
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

The forced marriage is only if the woman is not engaged to marry or married. If she is of a marriageable age and is neither engaged nor married, the person raping her might have to marry her. If the woman was engaged or married, the man would be killed.

 

[Tmac]

In places outside the Abrahamic paradigm, there are no prophets, and 'prophecies' can easily be explained by educated guesses, or coincidences. Most prophecies I know of take some very vague language and twist it to say, 'when ______ said this, what he really meant was this. (Whatever it was that happened). To be able to accurately predict the future is a daydream, a fantasy some people wish were true, but it isn't.

Of course people can believe in prophets and prophecies all they want to. It's just not at all convincing to me.

With just simple mathematic we can predict exactly where a moving body will be at any time, why cannot the same formula be used when (all the variables are accounted for) looking at the future of ....., no, your belief is deficient.

 

[Magus]

I have debunked all references too Arabia in the Old Testament , they are none at all , All references are referring too various Phoenician cities and ports.

 

[Magus]

Gen 10:6 'Ham ( place of Winter)
Gen 10:13 ( North Syria)
Ludim(=Lydia) Naphtuhim (=Nephtali )Pathrusim (Pteria) Kaphtor (Cappadocia)
Gen 10:7 ( Levant )
Gen 10:5 - Phoenician Coastal Cities
Gen 10:2 - Japheth - Joppa ( Jonah 1:3)
Gen 11:2 - 'בִּקְעָה ( Bekka Valley ) ' Most fertile place in the Levant

 

[Vinayaka]

With just simple mathematic we can predict exactly where a moving body will be at any time, why cannot the same formula be used when (all the variables are accounted for) looking at the future of ....., no, your belief is deficient.

That's science. I can also predict when the bell will go off on my microwave. If I set it to one minute, it will go off in a minute. But you're welcome to your belief that 'prophets' may be as accurate as alarm clocks. Not something I share.

 

[Tmac]

You have 24 hours (or 1440 minutes) a day to make life what you want it to be, and all that GOD asks is, you take 15-20 mins out of your day, spread it over several times and dedicate it in remembrance to the who gives you life after death each day, has blessed you with functioning limbs, the gifts of taste, sight, hearing, blessed you with a home, life partner, children, wealth etc

I personally consider those 20 mins out of 1440 a very good deal, as do Billions of others.

Personally, I'm happy for you. I got a little trouble with the God asking me thing, was that a personal experience or did some one tell you that? When I give some one something, I mean really give it, with no strings, they owe me nothing, I expect nothing, it like it was never mine but always theirs. Beside this kind of belief stunts growth.