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Fascism - Why...

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Yes.
At least the republicans don't pretend they don't side with those rich people.
The democrats...are more incoherent.

But they do pretend that. One of Trump's biggest selling points that he ran his campaign on was that he wanted to "drain the swamp." Many people voted for him on the premise that he would shake up the current power structure - including "rich elites" and "Wallstreet"
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Interesting. Biden has a higher rate than Trump did pre-covid. I do not blame Trump for his losses from covid. And one could argue that Biden was merely following the curve of recovery from covid that began under Trump. It does look as if Trump had a slightly lower growth rate than Obama did after the recovery began. There are quite a few factors in that. I don't want to get into all of the economics for right now, but if you compare that with the deficits under various presidents an interesting pattern appears.

View attachment 82064

The deficit tends to decrease under Democrats and increase under Republicans.
It's all really complex -- generally more than my poor brain can master. Still, I keep hearing how "great" everything was under Trump, but nary a single graph, number, link -- nada. What I really would like is for anyone to say that President A was better than President B, or the economy was way better under the Republicans or under the Democrats, is to stop just making the claim, and provide some facts to justify your claim. The Trump Trumpeters seem remarkably unwilling to do that.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It's all really complex -- generally more than my poor brain can master. Still, I keep hearing how "great" everything was under Trump, but nary a single graph, number, link -- nada. What I really would like is for anyone to say that President A was better than President B, or the economy was way better under the Republicans or under the Democrats, is to stop just making the claim, and provide some facts to justify your claim. The Trump Trumpeters seem remarkably unwilling to do that.
Trumpsters are cherry pickers. They remember the cheaper gas prices during Trump's time in office and then ignored the reason that they went up. They also want to believe his lies. Trump kept the economy hot using deficit spending. Something that one can do to only a limited extent. Economics is complicated and deficit spending can be a good thing, when done properly. For example almost everyone uses "deficit spending" themselves when they but a house. They realize that the long term returns are worth the initial deficit and the interest paid on it. The US government does that too. It essentially invests in the US work force. But just as one can spend too much for a house and have to refinance, and perhaps even lose the house, the US government sometimes goes through recessions or periods of inflation, both are reactions to overspending. The pandemic caused a lot of overspending. I do not blame either Trump or Biden for that. We are still paying for that with higher inflation rates. Inflation is a hidden tax. One's savings become less, one is moved into higher tax brackets while essentially making the same money, once inflation is accounted for. It decreases debt because the money one pays the debt in is less worth much less than the money that one got earlier. I know of some of the factors of economics, but I do not understand it well at all. That is why we need economists in the government. Leaving it up to amateurs, which is what politicians are, is begging for another recession or worse.
 

Friend of Mara

Active Member
If they vote for him again, it will be because they hope he does the same thing he did last time he was president; improve the economy.
But the point is that they are okay with voting for a known criminal to get what they want politically. But that is what most supporters have been openly doing since the beginning.
Its not a huge leap to go from "Well he shouldn't say the things he says but at the end of the day I vote for policies not for personality" to "I don't care what laws he broke if he gets my tax breaks".
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
If they vote for him again, it will be because they hope he does the same thing he did last time he was president; improve the economy.
As you might have seen earlier in this thread, please provide evidence for this "improved economy" over the 4 years of Trump's term. That would be from January 20, 2017, through January 19, 2021. Please be sure to include economic indicators like GDP, interest rates, unemployment rates and job creation rates, deficits, wages/hourly rates of pay, tax rates (compare the rich to the middle class), etc.

Either that, or admit that you "think" it was improved, but haven't the vaguest clue how to demonstrate that, outside of your worship for Trump that makes you believe him, no matter how much he lies.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
But he did not do that. The economy was improving before he got in office. Nothing that he did really improved the economy and actually threatened it.
Most of what I read says that he inherited an improved and improving economy. I grant that COVID wasn't his fault -- but his handling of it most certainly was. Nice snifter of bleach anyone? A lovely bouquet, and very much a lingering, clean after-taste!
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
And yet they’re willing to vote for a bully and a braggart, who has repeatedly shown he has no respect for his country’s laws or institutions?

Who also threatens to dismantle nearly every Federal agency and punish his political opponents. People on his side of the political spectrum are threatening to execute Hunter Biden, Anthony Fauci and others; they yearn for civil war and secession (ala Marjorie Traitor Green.)
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
If they vote for him again, it will be because they hope he does the same thing he did last time he was president; improve the economy.
And while you're answering my previous post (#147), please mention how you think that Trump actually managed the ONLY OATH that he was required to take to assume the office of POTUS: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I wonder what era of American history MAGA folks consider 'Great?'
Woodrow Wilson, tarring and feathering of "reds," lynching of people with different colours, eye-shapes, religious views, fascination with eugenics, the Red Scare and repression of First Amendment rights on civilians and the press. Oh, that was such a comforting time!
 
Whereas defining Trump a swine and a pig isn't libel? That is free speech?
:)
I give you some news: talking about undetermined people is not defamation.
Hmm, those are pretty mild definitions in the scheme of things really.

Some of mine are:

Narcissistic turnip, *redacted*, fake bronzed buffoon, *redacted*, *redacted* *very much so redacted*.

Hope that helped!
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
You know, people keep saying that, by the data just doesn't seem to show it. If you're looking for growth "by leaps and bounds," there is, of course, the Trump deficit -- the biggest by any President ever, and in a single term -- 984 billion in 1989 and over 1 trillion in 2020, largely as a tax cut gift to the wealthiest Americans, who were obviously starving for extra yachts.

How about job growth? Here's a chart, and notice the one very odd orange line (and while you're looking, check out Biden's much shorter purple line).

Biden's first year, 2021, had the highest GDP growth in decades, and yes, of course that led to some inflation which caused the Fed (which is not the President) to raise interest rates to fight -- and that took away quite a bit of that, but still higher than Trump left it, and poised to do much better going forward.

View attachment 82062
When Biden got into office we were coming out of the Pandemic when we purposely shut down the economy in an effort to stop Covid. To give him credit for record employment and GDP growth after opening up the economy back up is akin to firing 5 million people, then giving them their jobs back and call it creating 5 million new jobs
 
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