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Fatah-Hamas pact - good or bad? Is Netanyahu justified in suspending peace talks?

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
ah ,Now i understand why genocide against Arabs happened including Sabra and Shatila massacre, and why the Israeli army did not distingue between innocents and militians,"all is legal targets in the war"

so Mufti was allies to Hilter and adopted Al-Bana,so their generations should be (paid) massacred and treated racists by zionists?

as I know all the germans and big number of Europeans were allied to Adlof Hilter. (not just Mufti)

if Hilter in that time want to help the Palestines to get independant from GB , where is the problem ? because he is doing evil to Europe ?

- is not evil that GB and France before the WW2, dominated(occupate) and slave most of the earth ?

for your opinion ,so why there was intifada ?

it's obviously the prophecy is correct about the war that will happan between Muslims and Jews, maybe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Hadith mean (there will be a war between the muslims and jews , in that time, stone and trees will show/talk about the jewish, a jew "soldier" behind me comes to kill him)

btw
the new techonolgy of sonar (detector of bodies, not that one which used under water , there is NEW one used in the ground )
I remember when i played Ghost Recon game , that weapon is valid .

So the human recently created that weapon , is not easy to God to make it ?

btw
it's not miracle the Metale talking (Telivion,Telephone...etc) right now ,BUT
just before 100 years it's was miracle and unbelieveble to believe in !!!

I think you are unlikely to research,i'm not going to do it for you,Hassan Al-Bannas quote is from the current Hamas covenant/charter,it not a thing of the past its of the now.
IMO you like others should take time out to actually research the history,it always amazes me that people totally ignore the Gorilla in the room and his name begins with the letter H ;).
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Did you even bother to read all of what you quoted. Hamas and Fatah are an extension of the Mufti and have not diverged from that. Look at Hamas, where are their bases? In the cities among the civilians. Where are Hamas' rocket launchers? In the cities among the civilians. Look at Israel. Where are the bases? Outside the cities. Where are Israels ground interceptors? Outside the cities. BIG difference. Another query; Where does Hamas mostly fire their rockets? Towards a civilian town to the east and yet NEVER fire toward the military base to the north. When they do fire towards towards the north they make sure that the rockets have enough propulsion to miss the military base and land in the civilian towns. again BIG difference. Israel on the other hand uses missiles from planes and fire them at the locations that show intense heat on their radars thus hitting and hopefully taking out the rocket launchers. If you can't see the difference , then you are blind.
Hilter and Mufti are gone , i almost sure it's just an accusation for Hamas when some claim that , they have Hilter covenant , if that true , i will condemned them for that stand .

anyway I will check about that in arabic.

-honestly i think most of the occupated countries in WW2 were supported Hilter to help them
to free from the occupation of GB and France .
btw
in WW2 ,we the Algerians supported the allies (France) , because France promised us (If we help her) the Algerians to be indepenedent just after the win war against the Nazi .

and some history event said : that we the muslims protect the jews too , from the extrem chritains and Nazi .

-maybe you don't have any idea how big is Gaza ?it's very small area, for my information ,Gaza had the highest rate of population in the world .


anyway i said for second time , inspite the seige and abuse of Israeli regime , i disagree with them about rockets .

I said this before :
I remember very well in 2006,for Hezbollah-Israel war in 2006, when Hezbollah kidneppend Israeli soldiers to exchange them with Lebaness thousand of prisoners captured by Israel,then the Israeli attacked south lebanon towns , and Beirut , intentionally aimed the civilians homes to force Hezbollah to stop launching rockets

Hezbollah releases video of 2006 kidnapping op - Israel News, Ynetnews

this video is show how the Israeli army hit the civilians towns in south lebanon hunderds of innocents killed .

[youtube]X8VoUkSQz-w[/youtube]
'Under the Bombs' - YouTube



and in Gaza-Israel war , Israel used the phosfor (banned weapon), so there were more than 1600 innocents killed and others burned by this dangerous chemical weapon .

[youtube]eQWl_uQKxOI[/youtube]
CNN Confirms Israel Use Of White Phosphorus - YouTube .
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I think you are unlikely to research,i'm not going to do it for you,Hassan Al-Bannas quote is from the current Hamas covenant/charter,it not a thing of the past its of the now.
IMO you like others should take time out to actually research the history,it always amazes me that people totally ignore the Gorilla in the room and his name begins with the letter H ;).

maybe you did not notice my request , I asked for the reference ,link ?

It's fake accusation (relation between Hamas and Hilter ) because Hamas created in 1987 .

I made a search in Arabic and English about that Charter , i did not find what you claim .
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I remember very well in 2006,for Hezbollah-Israel war in 2006, when Hezbollah kidneppend Israeli soldiers to exchange them with Lebaness thousand of prisoners captured by Israel,then the Israeli attacked south lebanon towns , and Beirut , intentionally aimed the civilians homes to force Hezbollah to stop launching rockets

Its not really a kidnapping if you kill two people, claim they are still alive to exchange them for another group of people who are alive, well fed and quite healthy.

You are probably one of those who love Samir Kuntar.


maybe you don't have any idea how big is Gaza ?it's very small area, for my information ,Gaza had the highest rate of population in the world

Maybe you dont have any idea how big Gaza really is.

Population density
Gaza strip(360 km²): 5046/km²
Dhaka(360 km²): 19447/km²
And with this population density Dhaka is only on 36th place.
Manila has a population density of 42857/km²(thats 42,857 people on one m²) and is only 38,55 km² big.

This is going to be ignored isnt it?


and in Gaza-Israel war , Israel used the phosfor (banned weapon), so there were more than 1600 innocents killed and others burned by this dangerous chemical weapon .

[youtube]eQWl_uQKxOI[/youtube]
CNN Confirms Israel Use Of White Phosphorus - YouTube .

First of all you dont know what white phosphorus is.

And secondly its use is not banned.


Its not even a secret, one can read it on the net. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

I know its really quite hard to find.
Also there has been no proof that burn victims in Gaza had gotten these burn wounds by white phosphorus. There even was a Scandinavian team of scientists who wanted prove that.
If their wounds had been the result of white phosphorus they would have been easy to determine as white phosphorus leaves quite the chemical trail.

But i already stated this 2 years ago and yet its been ignored. But iam kinda used to that.


The tallit , when you feel like to explain just informe me :p

These are these sites called "Google" or "DuckDuckGo" where you can find out yourself. I bet you'll find a source which claims that the blue of the tallit is made out of the blue eyes of muslim babies and believe it.
 

Tali018

Member
Hilter and Mufti are gone , i almost sure it's just an accusation for Hamas when some claim that , they have Hilter covenant , if that true , i will condemned them for that stand .

anyway I will check about that in arabic.

-honestly i think most of the occupated countries in WW2 were supported Hilter to help them
to free from the occupation of GB and France .
btw
in WW2 ,we the Algerians supported the allies (France) , because France promised us (If we help her) the Algerians to be indepenedent just after the win war against the Nazi .

and some history event said : that we the muslims protect the jews too , from the extrem chritains and Nazi .

-maybe you don't have any idea how big is Gaza ?it's very small area, for my information ,Gaza had the highest rate of population in the world .


anyway i said for second time , inspite the seige and abuse of Israeli regime , i disagree with them about rockets .

I said this before :
I remember very well in 2006,for Hezbollah-Israel war in 2006, when Hezbollah kidneppend Israeli soldiers to exchange them with Lebaness thousand of prisoners captured by Israel,then the Israeli attacked south lebanon towns , and Beirut , intentionally aimed the civilians homes to force Hezbollah to stop launching rockets.

this video is show how the Israeli army hit the civilians towns in south lebanon hunderds of innocents killed .

and in Gaza-Israel war , Israel used the phosfor (banned weapon), so there were more than 1600 innocents killed and others burned by this dangerous chemical weapon .

I'm going to make this response as short as possible with the least amount of links as possible. First let me introduce myself. I am a Mizrahi Jew. A Mizrahi Jew is a person who's lineage is of the countries in the Middle East. My lineage is Levant and my family has lived in villages around Jerusalem for 100's of years ( I have the Ottoman Tax Stamp documents to prove land ownership for multiple generations). Thus I am fluent in Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic. I have numerous cousins who are Jews and numerous I call cousins who are Muslims and our families have been interconnected for 100's of years.

As you possibly don't know, before WW1 there were little to no problems between Jews and Muslims. Most of the problems were caused by Britain and France as they treated Africa and the Middle East as their colonies. During WW1 the Ottomans were allied to the Germans and lost the war. The British and French got more control over the area due to the Ottomans losing all their lands. From that point forward all the problems started. Skipping a few decades Germany rebuilt itself and made connections in Africa. The Mufti was evicted from Jerusalem due to causing problems in the Mandate area. The Mufti and Hitler became friends and Hitler made a promise to the Mufti that once he killed all the Jews in Europe, he would cleanse the Mandate of Jews and the Mufti would gain all of what Jews had owned. Hitler told him to allow his people to sell land to Jews since they would get back the land later and also keep the profit from selling it the first place. Hitler also sent his people down to Egypt, where the Mufti was currently living, and taught him propaganda, how to spread false information and trained (and armed) Arabs to fight. When the Germans lost the war their advisers stayed in Egypt and still went forward with the Attack on the Mandate with numerous other Arab countries (even though those same countries were created thanks to the British and French). The Jews didn't fight the Arabs of the Mandate as they were told to leave by the Mufti in order that the invasion could kill everyone in sight and not kill Arabs. As you know the Jews fought because they were fighting for their lives and the armies of the Arabs basically found out they would not be gaining anything for themselves and basically pulled back because they knew it was a land grab and not a fight for the independence of another Arab nation. And that was proven after the Armistice when Egypt annexed the Gaza Strip and Jordan annexed the West Bank (thus evicting all the Jews who had lived there for generations including my family).

the British and France promised many things which included promising the same lands to different groups. Everything they did and still do is for their own benefit. They will not do something unless they have something to gain.

As to the Hamas Charter which in many ways they don't follow even under Sharia: The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

As to Gaza: Look at map of the Gaza Strip and not Gaza City. There are plenty of empty lands between Rafah and Gaza City. And as of 2005 there are no Jews in the Gaza strip. The philistina were supposed to build an economy, but within a few hours of the last Jew leaving they started firing rockets out of Gaza. Basically laying the foundation for their future of hate.

As to the Lebanon Israel war look close at your videos. The missiles that landed in Lebanon landed on military sites in Lebanon which were located in the middle of civilian areas. Notice they were single hits and not multiple hits in the same area.

As to the use of phosphorus, notice that they all exploded in the air and photos show cans on the ground and not missiles. Thus their use was not used as a weapon but as a tool.

In closing I advise you to look at websites that are neither Jewish or Muslim in order to find the real truths. YouTube videos are useful sometimes, but since the videos are usually edited then their value is greatly diminished.

Good Day
 
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England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
maybe you did not notice my request , I asked for the reference ,link ?

It's fake accusation (relation between Hamas and Hilter ) because Hamas created in 1987 .

I made a search in Arabic and English about that Charter , i did not find what you claim .

I wonder why,i think the charter was created in 1988 but the link between the two is so obvious.
I'm not making an accusation because the charter is in their own words,theres no need for propaganda because its well documented,unfortunately in some places you aren't allowed to see them
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I'm going to make this response as short as possible with the least amount of links as possible. First let me introduce myself. I am a Mizrahi Jew. A Mizrahi Jew is a person who's lineage is of the countries in the Middle East. My lineage is Levant and my family has lived in villages around Jerusalem for 100's of years ( I have the Ottoman Tax Stamp documents to prove land ownership for multiple generations). Thus I am fluent in Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic. I have numerous cousins who are Jews and numerous I call cousins who are Muslims and our families have been interconnected for 100's of years.
thanks for sharing .

As you possibly don't know, before WW1 there were little to no problems between Jews and Muslims. Most of the problems were caused by Britain and France as they treated Africa and the Middle East as their colonies. During WW1 the Ottomans were allied to the Germans and lost the war. The British and French got more control over the area due to the Ottomans losing all their lands. From that point forward all the problems started. Skipping a few decades Germany rebuilt itself and made connections in Africa. The Mufti was evicted from Jerusalem due to causing problems in the Mandate area. The Mufti and Hitler became friends and Hitler made a promise to the Mufti that once he killed all the Jews in Europe, he would cleanse the Mandate of Jews and the Mufti would gain all of what Jews had owned. Hitler told him to allow his people to sell land to Jews since they would get back the land later and also keep the profit from selling it the first place. Hitler also sent his people down to Egypt, where the Mufti was currently living, and taught him propaganda, how to spread false information and trained (and armed) Arabs to fight. When the Germans lost the war their advisers stayed in Egypt and still went forward with the Attack on the Mandate with numerous other Arab countries (even though those same countries were created thanks to the British and French). The Jews didn't fight the Arabs of the Mandate as they were told to leave by the Mufti in order that the invasion could kill everyone in sight and not kill Arabs. As you know the Jews fought because they were fighting for their lives and the armies of the Arabs basically found out they would not be gaining anything for themselves and basically pulled back because they knew it was a land grab and not a fight for the independence of another Arab nation. And that was proven after the Armistice when Egypt annexed the Gaza Strip and Jordan annexed the West Bank (thus evicting all the Jews who had lived there for generations including my family).

the British and France promised many things which included promising the same lands to different groups. Everything they did and still do is for their own benefit. They will not do something unless they have something to gain.
again thanks for some new historic information , about the conflict (Jews/Muslims)

My conclusion about this info :
Britian/France occupation was a cause/reason of the problems (between the nations) by creat or divide them .
you forget to add this , Ottomans choose the stand with Nazi because ,GB promised to give Palestine land to zionists ,

you said "Hitler Promised the Mufti ", do you have credible reference ?

and you said " Mufti order to kill everyone in sight except the Arabs " do you have credible reference ?

-as i understand now ,the Ottmans and their Mufti choose to Stand with the Nazi ,because
they practice the golden rule : the enemy of my enemy is my friend .



So Arabs/Muslims in Palestine and Inside Israel, and without forget the Palestinians refugees: are paid, and still paying the Ottoman " Mufti stand" (allied to Germans ).
As to the Hamas Charter which in many ways they don't follow even under Sharia: The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988
the link that you posted is from Jewish site , why you think they don't follow Sharia ?
any way i am with they should change their Charter IF it's contians racist laws or it's against Sharia .


As to Gaza: Look at map of the Gaza Strip and not Gaza City. There are plenty of empty lands between Rafah and Gaza City. And as of 2005 there are no Jews in the Gaza strip. The philistina were supposed to build an economy, but within a few hours of the last Jew leaving they started firing rockets out of Gaza. Basically laying the foundation for their future of hate.
do you have argument tells that Hamas which attack without any reason ?

accuatly I am against rockets and suicide bombs , and for sure i am against over reaction of Israeli army

they attacked Israel , maybe because as revenge from years under occupation , or they imiting Hezbollah , when Hezbollah succeed to indepenedent south of Lebanon.

or because they suffered from economic siege, without any reason ?
.
As to Lebanon Israel war look close at your videos. The missiles that landed in Lebanon landed on military sites in Lebanon which were located in the middle of civilian areas. Notice they were single hits and not multiple hits in the same area.
I don't agree on this , the fact these videos had comes from one source (Israeli army) , so they absolutly show/edit ONLY the vidoes which support their theory .

and ground tell other stories so we believe , the consequences (innocent killed) of missiles/bombs not who send the missiles .



As to the use of phosphorus, notice that they all exploded in the air and photos show cans on the ground and not missiles. Thus their use was not used as a weapon but as a tool.

ah ,I guess they exploded phosphorus in the air to become efficace (for bigger range) ?

phosphorus bombs are just tool !! not weapon , are you kiding us ?



In closing I advise you to look at websites that are neither Jewish or Muslim in order to find the real truths. YouTube videos are useful sometimes, but since the videos are usually edited then their value is greatly diminished.

Good Day

maybe you ignored that each site or media had agenda ,and it's diffuse it's opinion (among/inside) the news .
-they cut/edit or stand in one side

anyway do you have a website that you suggest (neutral site) ,where we suppose to find in it "the real truth" ?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I wonder why,i think the charter was created in 1988 but the link between the two is so obvious.
I'm not making an accusation because the charter is in their own words,theres no need for propaganda because its well documented,unfortunately in some places you aren't allowed to see them

for your opinion where they hide them ?
 

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
how about Israel destroied the Palestine state by the occupation in west bank ...etc , they had no word in the deal ?

How about the Two-State solution back in 1947, by UN, which Israel accepted but Palestine rejected.

That is what got us into this mess. Everything else is reflection of that event. Well, that and world war two, anyway.
 

Tali018

Member
thanks for sharing .


again thanks for some new historic information , about the conflict (Jews/Muslims)

My conclusion about this info :
Britian/France occupation was a cause/reason of the problems (between the nations) by creat or divide them .
you forget to add this , Ottomans choose the stand with Nazi because ,GB promised to give Palestine land to zionists ,

you said "Hitler Promised the Mufti ", do you have credible reference ?

and you said " Mufti order to kill everyone in sight except the Arabs " do you have credible reference ?

-as i understand now ,the Ottmans and their Mufti choose to Stand with the Nazi ,because
they practice the golden rule : the enemy of my enemy is my friend .



So Arabs/Muslims in Palestine and Inside Israel, and without forget the Palestinians refugees: are paid, and still paying the Ottoman " Mufti stand" (allied to Germans ).

the link that you posted is from Jewish site , why you think they don't follow Sharia ?
any way i am with they should change their Charter IF it's contians racist laws or it's against Sharia .



do you have argument tells that Hamas which attack without any reason ?

accuatly I am against rockets and suicide bombs , and for sure i am against over reaction of Israeli army

they attacked Israel , maybe because as revenge from years under occupation , or they imiting Hezbollah , when Hezbollah succeed to indepenedent south of Lebanon.

or because they suffered from economic siege, without any reason ?
.

I don't agree on this , the fact these videos had comes from one source (Israeli army) , so they absolutly show/edit ONLY the vidoes which support their theory .

and ground tell other stories so we believe , the consequences (innocent killed) of missiles/bombs not who send the missiles .





ah ,I guess they exploded phosphorus in the air to become efficace (for bigger range) ?

phosphorus bombs are just tool !! not weapon , are you kiding us ?





maybe you ignored that each site or media had agenda ,and it's diffuse it's opinion (among/inside) the news .
-they cut/edit or stand in one side

anyway do you have a website that you suggest (neutral site) ,where we suppose to find in it "the real truth" ?

You seem to have no ability to do your own reseaerch and all this is stated all over the internet. But I will cover one sentence:

you forget to add this , Ottomans choose the stand with Nazi because ,GB promised to give Palestine land to zionists

Problem here was the Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) by GB was AFTER the war. Also another item you are wrong on is that the Ottoman Empire passed a law in the 1870's for Jews to own land in the Jerusalem region.
 

Tali018

Member
How about the Two-State solution back in 1947, by UN, which Israel accepted but Palestine rejected.

That is what got us into this mess. Everything else is reflection of that event. Well, that and world war two, anyway.

Actually the Arabs nations that surrounded them made that decision for them via the Grand Mufti (who never left Egypt) and not the people themselves. The Palestinian people have never had a voice in their affairs. If today, the powers that be want outsiders to do their work for them. Thus even yoday the people under Fatah/Hamas still have no voice. The only one's who have a voice are those who live in Israel. And they enjoy their freedom to live their lives as they wish and pray nearly everywhere out in the open.
 

Tali018

Member
Wut? There were no Nazis during WW1.

If I had to venture a guess, the poster is using translator software and whatever browser they are using does not have the plug-in to translate entire webpages so the only sites they are looking at are in Arabic. Thus they are limited sites in Arabic that do not cover history in a neutral manner. Whats on Arabic sites is not the same as sites from the same company in English or in possible case French. Plus if they were brought up in Muslim schools all the history that is universally known in Western countries is not in their textbooks. Since I work in Arab countries mostly, I have to create a VPN to get past the countries filter to a usable server which drops the bandwide to very slow speed for internet searches. Even within their countries, their bandwith is slow, their computers are old and many still have XP and thus not enough memory to handle information flow. My home speed is 105/20, but I'm rarly home so on a good day I get 15/3 or worse.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Wow Tali018,

Is there any way for us in the West to get a sense of what these typical Arabic sites are like?
 

Tali018

Member
Wow Tali018,

Is there any way for us in the West to get a sense of what these typical Arabic sites are like?

Here are a few. Some may in English some will require webpage plugins. Some look like simple news but their articles is whats different compared to everything that is well known. As in the West nothing is "Typical". I'll start with the Eglish ones that don't show up in search engines. Click in the Arabic icons and translate.
Palestine Remembered, al-Nakba 1948- פלשתינה-فلسطين في الذاكرة
Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades | Information Office
Palestine Pulse
http://english.alarabiya.net/
.:: Maan News Agency ::.
 
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