First time hearing about the Virgin Mary

[outhouse]

The burden of proof is on you pal,

No it is not.

I said back your statements, not mine.

 

[Unification]

No it is not.

I said back your statements, not mine.

Look at you, the need to be in control.

My evidence is internal experience. Yours is academic and historical. You teach and get paid for that... you should be filled with a plethora of external sources and evidence.

Without judgement, what type of classes do you teach... and what would one learn in such classes, are a majority of your students in need and taking your classes in order to become a pastor/priest/etc? I'm genuinely interested. I understand the Bible Belt is pretty hefty down south.

 

[outhouse]

what type of classes do you teach

I only have lectured a few times and have stopped. The Professor wants to promote his own atheist agenda using my knowledge to meet his needs.

While he may be correct, I did not like the politics behind it.

You teach and get paid for that...

I volunteer my time. I get paid nothing.

and what would one learn in such classes,

The ethnogenesis of Israelite cultures and the evolution of monotheism in said cultures.

How abrahamic gods were defined and evolved into the one god concept.

taking your classes in order to become a pastor/priest/etc?

Philosophy

Bible Belt is pretty hefty down south.

Sacramento Ca

 

[outhouse]

Look at you, the need to be in control.

Its not about control.

Its about preserving academic knowledge, from those who do not know and would rather redefine history using imaginative explanations for a topic they don't have a clue about.

You don't know the context here, not even in the ballpark yet.


Your modern personal interpretation does not apply to the ancient communities that wrote the mythology

 

[Unification]

I only have lectured a few times and have stopped. The Professor wants to promote his own atheist agenda using my knowledge to meet his needs.

While he may be correct, I did not like the politics behind it.




I volunteer my time. I get paid nothing.



The ethnogenesis of Israelite cultures and the evolution of monotheism in said cultures.

How abrahamic gods were defined and evolved into the one god concept.




Philosophy




Sacramento Ca

Thank you for sharing.

My apologies if I was mistaken, thought I've heard you mention a few times that you teach that for a living. I'll take your word on that.

 

[Unification]

Its not about control.

Its about preserving academic knowledge, from those who do not know and would rather redefine history using imaginative explanations for a topic they don't have a clue about.

You don't know the context here, not even in the ballpark yet.


Your modern personal interpretation does not apply to the ancient communities that wrote the mythology

What is there to preserve? I could understand the academia behind the languages and evolution of mythology among different cultures, exoteric deities, and their spread across the earth.... but there is a far deeper internal, metaphysical/philosophical human being understanding beneath the surface.

There is literal history and there is the "bible."

 

[outhouse]

thought I've heard you mention a few times that you teach that for a living

Nope. As much as I wish I was, I am not even a scholar, let alone a professor. I do hold my own with professors and scholars on some topics, but I'm missing much of the required education.

But what I learned at universities on these topics was eye opening to say the least. It should be required.


The best day I remember with clarity, was learning how all the authors were trained to use rhetorical prose to write all the text from this period. It is based on Aristotle's literary methods.

 

[outhouse]

.... but there is a far deeper internal, metaphysical/philosophical human being understanding beneath the surface.

That is theology, and the ONLY way to understand this theology is by understanding the anthropology of these people to even begin to place it into context .

Now much is lost forever and educated guesses sometimes will be as good as it gets. Other times we know where they were going with it.


Example, the mustard seed parable. Its not just about a small seed. Or small beginnings. To them it was an evasive weed, and once it took over it was hard to remove. You cannot understand that from a literal reading or even guessing about the context you have to know.

There is literal history and there is the "bible."

And the bible was written in a literal historical time period.

 

[jeager106]

"And the bible was written in a literal historical time period."

And much of the information in the Bible is accurate enough to have allowed
Scientists to find ancient cities and other historic sites.
Do the research. It's there.

 

[Unification]

That is theology, and the ONLY way to understand this theology is by understanding the anthropology of these people to even begin to place it into context .

Now much is lost forever and educated guesses sometimes will be as good as it gets. Other times we know where they were going with it.


Example, the mustard seed parable. Its not just about a small seed. Or small beginnings. To them it was an evasive weed, and once it took over it was hard to remove. You cannot understand that from a literal reading or even guessing about the context you have to know.





And the bible was written in a literal historical time period.

I agree there, there are just things that cannot be known due to agendas, destruction, changes, bias, control/power, rise of religions, etc.

I hope that you can see some wisdom in that seed. Think of a heavily doctrined and conditioned mind... it's like a weed that has grown in someone's mind to the point it is hard to get rid of... it has choked out and destroyed all of the reason, logic, common sense, and better judgement seeds. Small beginnings can grow and lead to a very polluted and virus-filled mind. That type of temple/mind would need destroyed and rebuilt/altered.

A pure seed will annoy and be bitter also to the impure. I used to hate pure seeds because I didn't want to change my ways. Just as small beginnings can grow/blossom into something wonderful. A small amount of faith and belief in oneself to deny oneself is sometimes all that it takes for a life to be transformed.

I used to be obsessed with finding the truth to the history, academically searching out the meanings and history of mustard seeds, etc. to the point it was just wearing the mind. I let it go and the "spirit" beneath the text started jumping out at me because I became aware that it was about me.

 

[outhouse]

And much of the information in the Bible is accurate enough to have allowed
Scientists to find ancient cities and other historic sites.
Do the research. It's there.

And when we do the research we have found pseudohistory and credible history. Just because there is a historical core to the myths, does not make the myth reality.

 

[jeager106]

And when we do the research we have found pseudohistory and credible history. Just because there is a historical core to the myths, does not make the myth reality.

Agreed.

 

[outhouse]

I hope that you can see some wisdom in that seed.

I knew were you were going, I was trying to get you aimed [right or wrong] in a direction that could help you promote your own versions.

And that is trusting academic sources, and researching specifics, so you can place the wisdom in context to the authors intentions if possible

 

[Yoshua]

There is little credibility for mary in the NT. She is barely mentioned, and what was mentioned was by people far removed from her life.

Hi Outhouse,

If there is credibility for Mary in the New Testament, therefore, the issues about “virgin” of Mary is not problem.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

No. That is your personal Apologetic rhetoric. It has nothing to do with credible history.

Outhouse,

But do you believe witness of historian during the time of Jesus like Josephus?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Jesus wasn't the only Messiah/Son of God, though, as the terms are used for others as well.

Not only that, but others died and were brought back to life and two people SKIPPED DEATH COMPLETELY. How can Jesus claim to conquer death if others could just become immortal?

Hi Kelly,

In the first place, we must understand who Jesus was, He is the Son of God—God sent by the Father God, the Messiah, the Rabbi, teacher, Emmanuel, the Light, the way, the truth and the Life. His crucifixion serves as atonement for man’s sins. He is the one who only have access to the Father for they are one with the Father (John 14:6, John 10:30).

Phil. 2:9-11
9. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10. that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11. and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I don’t think there are people who has the authority like Jesus.

Thanks

 

[Mycroft]

My Wife and I are both Buddhist, I came into it at age 14, my wife since birth.

Recently after being hounded by a Christian woman to convert she politely excused herself and left.

Knowing absolutely nothing about Christianity she asked why the lady refered to Mary as the Virgin Mary, I explained the story of Mary and Jesus.

It was interesting to see the reaction from a woman from a Village who has not grown up with these stories.

she believes she had an affair and lied to her husband, and he convinced himself it's true through Fear of losing his beloved wife, how it grew from there is what really amazed her.

Bottom line, Virgin's Cannot give Birth, and she finds it very amusing.

No offence to Christians, just an interesting moment seeing a point of view of someone completely ignorant of any Bible teachings as we only see generally opinions from those who grew up with these stories.

Occam's Razor, isn't it? Which is more likely: That she gave birth as a virgin? Or had it off with another man behind Joseph's back?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Hi Kelly,

In the first place, we must understand who Jesus was, He is the Son of God—God sent by the Father God, the Messiah, the Rabbi, teacher, Emmanuel, the Light, the way, the truth and the Life. His crucifixion serves as atonement for man’s sins. He is the one who only have access to the Father for they are one with the Father (John 14:6, John 10:30).

Phil. 2:9-11
9. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10. that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11. and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I don’t think there are people who has the authority like Jesus.

Thanks

I understand who Jesus was. He was a messenger of Truth sent by God. "Son of God" is a label, as is "Messiah". None of them actually require divinity. I don't hold John or Paul to be very useful to spirituality. Jesus' message was how to "be the miracle" as Bruce Almighty put it. Paul and John want us to focus on our heavenly rewards, which is a bit self-absorbed IMHO. We all have access to God, being omnipresent and all. Granted, some people lack neural setups in their brains to feel "divinely inspired" or whatever, but just because the radio doesn't work doesn't mean the message ain't floating around. In dreams/visions I've met God several times (sometimes strictly to hear a lecture, LOL). I can no longer engage in idolatry. Even if one is Trinitarian, I'm willing to cut it some slack, but an over-reliance on Paul and John will merely ensure people who are only interested in their own benefits. Look at fundamentalists: they almost exclusively quote from these two people and have the audacity to tell us to "read the WHOLE bible". Jesus told us to let our light shine, not hide it. If only Jesus is light, then how could he claim this?
edit:

Occam's Razor, isn't it? Which is more likely: That she gave birth as a virgin? Or had it off with another man behind Joseph's back?

It doesn't have to be Mary cheating on Joe, though. It's not like women had many sexual rights in that area. Some man could've simply helped himself to her ...

 

[outhouse]

But do you believe witness of historian during the time of Jesus like Josephus?

Josephus was heavily edited regarding Jesus, and the church was the one to hold and edit much of it. Not all has been edited, and we think some of the writing is original.

But what is there shows John was the popular teacher and Jesus just about unknown.

He was also not witness to anything.

Not one word of the NT was witness to anything in the mans life, because the authors were from a different culture and lived far away from his geographic location.

We are talking about people far removed from his life writing in rhetorical prose using fiction and mythology to create the pseudohistory important to them at that time period long after his death.

 

[outhouse]

Some man could've simply helped himself to her ...

We have the tradition of the Roman guard raping her. But I place no historical value in such.

That author was just combatting other traditions and myths based on gospel text of Matthew and Luke, IMHO