Flirting vs. Sexual Harassment

[Koldo]

No. Seeking out long-term relationships with co-workers is also not okay.

In your opinion, of course.
I think otherwise. I see no inherent issues.

 

[Stevicus]

Do you have a "worst pick up line" that you have heard?

Not that I can think of. No one has tried to pick me up in a long time.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Not that I can think of. No one has tried to pick me up in a long time.

Mine went something like this:

"Are you an exorcist? Because I'm a demon in the bedroom!"

Actually it was clever. It's too bad nothing the person said afterwards was even so much as entertaining.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The best pickup line was, "What weapon are you taking to the zombie apocalypse with me? Choose wisely!"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Creepy and confident have the same definition

Nope.
creep·y
/ˈkrēpē

adjective
informal
adjective: creepy; comparative adjective: creepier; superlative adjective: creepiest
causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease.

con·fi·dent
/ˈkänfədənt/

adjective
adjective: confident
1.
feeling or showing confidence in oneself; self-assured.
"we require outgoing, confident people able to approach large groups"
synonyms: self-assured, assured, sure of oneself, self-confident, positive; More

 

[Stevicus]

Mine went something like this:

"Are you an exorcist? Because I'm a demon in the bedroom!"

Actually it was clever. It's too bad nothing the person said afterwards was even so much as entertaining.

I'm reminded of the opening line from the movie The Sure Thing:


"Consider outer space.
From the time of the first NASA mission,
it became evident...
that being in space has a profound effect
on the human psyche.
During the first Gemini mission,
some thought was actually given...
to the notion of sending up
a man and a woman together."

"Really?"

"A cosmic Adam and Eve, if you will...
bound together
in a sophisticated nerve center...
at the head of the largest,
most powerful known rocket...
its giant thrusters
blasting into the dark void...
as they hurtled towards
their final destination:
the gushing wellspring of life itself.
How would you like
a sexual encounter so intense...
it could conceivably change
your political views?"

 

[Milton Platt]

It seems that nowadays the lines between flirting and sexual harassment are becoming increasingly blurred. Now, before I say anything more, I believe there is a very important distinction to make between sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sexual assault involves physical contact and is absolutely wrong. A man should never touch a woman without her consent.

However, it seems that today, even complimenting a woman's appearance (especially if she is a stranger or distant acquaintance of the man and not a friend) could lead to being seen as creepy and in some environments (office, for instance) could lead to accusations of sexual harassment.

Here is my controversial, yet very simple assessment of the situation. If a guy approaches a woman and she thinks he's handsome, it's perfectly acceptable flirting. If a guy approaches a woman (and says the same things as guy #1) and she thinks he's ugly, then he's a creep and in some cases even a sexual "harasser." Creepy and confident have the same definition, except that creepy guys are ugly and confident guys are handsome. Thus, unattractive men that approach women in the office will risk losing their jobs, but attractive men will not (ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?). But, how can a male know if a female finds him attractive unless he approaches her? Perhaps women should start approaching men instead. This would resolve the problems.

Thoughts? Do you have any better way of distinguishing between flirting and harassment? Let's see it.

While there are some things that clearly are harassment, it does seem that there is no clearly defined line and what passes as harassment seems ultimately to be in the eye of the receiver. I know no way out of this dilemma.

 

[Milton Platt]

If a person is so lacking in subtlety that he needs
guidance in how to avoid being a creep, or how
to tell whether it is advisable to try flirting with
someone, there is no "advice" that is going to
help.

If you are a catch, they will approach you in any case.
If you are not, well, too bad.

Don't know that it is that simple. You don't have to be a creep (definition?) to be rejected. You can be a wonderful person but simply not be attractive and you can forget about being approached. You cannot know if a person is a creep or not without engaging them first. How do you look across the room and know a person is a "catch"?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Don't know that it is that simple. You don't have to be a creep (definition?) to be rejected. You can be a wonderful person but simply not be attractive and you can forget about being approached. You cannot know if a person is a creep or not without engaging them first. How do you look across the room and know a person is a "catch"?

Initial impressions are based on looks, skill level (in a sense), and body language. By the second date, it's about you and how effective you are at dating. By the fifth date, it's just about you.

My opinion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why? I know people who met at work and got married.

I'm talking about the context of the OP: where the person has no clue whether an advance would be welcome... and even thinks there would be a reasonable chance it would be so unwelcome that it should be considered harassment.

In that situation, don't even try to start something with the co-worker. People should be able to make a living in peace without their creepy, oblivious co-workers trying to pick them up.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In your opinion, of course.
I think otherwise. I see no inherent issues.

Try telling HR in your workplace that and see how it goes.

 

[PureX]

I don't think that is possible. Sexual selection is what it is. We evolved to seek out certain successful traits in a sexual partner. It's genetic and this imperative is strong in us.

We can still choose to ignore the impulse, as we choose to ignore many others.

 

[Milton Platt]

It seems that nowadays the lines between flirting and sexual harassment are becoming increasingly blurred. Now, before I say anything more, I believe there is a very important distinction to make between sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sexual assault involves physical contact and is absolutely wrong. A man should never touch a woman without her consent.

However, it seems that today, even complimenting a woman's appearance (especially if she is a stranger or distant acquaintance of the man and not a friend) could lead to being seen as creepy and in some environments (office, for instance) could lead to accusations of sexual harassment.

Here is my controversial, yet very simple assessment of the situation. If a guy approaches a woman and she thinks he's handsome, it's perfectly acceptable flirting. If a guy approaches a woman (and says the same things as guy #1) and she thinks he's ugly, then he's a creep and in some cases even a sexual "harasser." Creepy and confident have the same definition, except that creepy guys are ugly and confident guys are handsome. Thus, unattractive men that approach women in the office will risk losing their jobs, but attractive men will not (ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?). But, how can a male know if a female finds him attractive unless he approaches her? Perhaps women should start approaching men instead. This would resolve the problems.

Thoughts? Do you have any better way of distinguishing between flirting and harassment? Let's see it.

It is confusing at the least. How do you enforce a law that relies on the subjective opinion of the one who feels offended? When you have a law that accepts that in a particular situation, sexual harassment occurred, and in another exact situation with a different person, no offence occurred, Where is the line?

 

[Estro Felino]

It's not like these are just clueless nerds fumbling with cheesy pick-up lines they learned from watching The Love Boat. (I think that show ruined everything.)

Love Boat? LoL I think that show was awesome...

I'm talking about the context of the OP: where the person has no clue whether an advance would be welcome... and even thinks there would be a reasonable chance it would be so unwelcome that it should be considered harassment.

In that situation, don't even try to start something with the co-worker. People should be able to make a living in peace without their creepy, oblivious co-workers trying to pick them up.

Really...this is so wrong...with all due respect.
A colleague of mine asked me out only 30 days after we met...
And when he did, I said: "finally".

 

[oldbadger]

Ah, that, yes. But my hair is longer, and not
as dark.

You could be fibbing......
You might look like this for all I know:-

 

[oldbadger]

I was watching a made in Hong Kong movie
called "Rave Fever", and the actress Jaymee Ong
told this guy, "I would not have shagged you if I
did not love you."
So I looked it up in urban dictionary, "Shag".
Ah ok..

Jaymee could have been telling the bloke that she changed her hairstyle just for him.
Shag Hairstyle:-


Or she could have been saying that she wanted to chuck a crested cormorant (a Shag) at him:-

 

[Martin]

I'm only attracted to people who agree to watch Star Trek with me but who don't actually like Star Trek.

Why? Wouldn't you be better off with somebody who likes Star Trek too?

 

[Martin]

Jaymee could have been telling the bloke that she changed her hairstyle just for him.
Shag Hairstyle:-
View attachment 31297

Or she could have been saying that she wanted to chuck a crested cormorant (a Shag) at him:-
View attachment 31298

Please don't throw cormorants at people. You might hurt the cormorant, and they are sensitive birds.

 

[Estro Felino]

In your opinion, of course.
I think otherwise. I see no inherent issues.

Eu tambem

 

[oldbadger]

Please don't throw cormorants at people. You might hurt the cormorant, and they are sensitive birds.

Never. We would never ever chuck a cormorant at anybody.
We're English...... civilised.

But Shags are Scottish........... no worries there.