for those people who love to hate on the wealthy...

[WyattDerp]

 

[oldbadger]

What this boils down to is some folks have a problem dealing with the fact that many people never have to work a day in their life because their dad or their grandpa already earned money for them.

Life is not fair, get over it.

Hi.....! I'm coming in late here, hence the back-posting.

Not here! Inheritance tax nails the rich to the floor here. Quite often a beneficiary has to sell off the family art, silver etc to scrape thru', and the rich rant and rage over it all. It's not a bad tax, helps the old government with their wasteful ideas, and balances things out a bit.

Didn't you have a bit of a rage when President Obama was re-elected? Sold off all your herds and promised to go an island in retirement? Had not even told your wife of the sale? Was that you? I just thought 'Poor bloke. Can do most anything he wants yet still needs to rage'. Honest. The rich never seem truly content.

 

[oldbadger]

"BS" is when a poster offers me insults, but no evidence or even personal experience.
Come on, guy....at least be interesting in your criticism.

Hi....! Can I try?

Ummm..... Errrrr.... OK..
Yeah, I knew you was a dirty rich geezer when you said you had a 'Dahon' fold-up bike, instead of an ordinary steel frame folder like me, a decent poor geezer who had to visit the junk yards for ally bits to lighten mine. You scummy Dahon bikers always think you own the bleedin' pavement, and never give proper hand signals cos yer so stuck up an' all. Yeah.......

(Are you really really rich?)

 

[oldbadger]

Hi Octavia, how about this? :-

We are comfortable and would not want or need to swap places with anybody. Never felt envy or jealousy in 30 years.

But I am an observer, and so when I visit people's homes to clean their carpets (my little part-time job) I notice lots of things.
Although they are usual very friendly, richer householders seem to be 'crazy' about money and cost. As a generalisation, this is what I find in rich professional homes:- (none of this happens in ordinary homes or commercial jobs):-

1. The hot water tank has turned off at 8am and the water is lukewarm.
2. When I ask them to turn the water-heater on they tell me that the water is 'piping' hot already.
3. When I tell them that they will get a much cleaner carpet with hot water, they sneak off and turn the heater on.
4. Their idea of a small bedroom carpet is a huge-bedroom white-carpet that is full of dirt, often dog-sh-t, etc...
5. Without fail, they suggest that I could just do extra bits here and there, with no suggestion that they pay more.
6. I only have a 50-50 chance of getting offered a mug of tea. (Everywhere else the kettle is on for me when I arrive).
7. As we chat while I fill my buckets, they will tell me about their big jobs,and how their work-life balances are unfair.
8. They are often dirty, and I find disgusting messes when I move furniture unless they have a cleaner.
9. When the job is done and they are pleased, they always pay by cheque, and so, only rarely will I get a tip.
10. They often suggest that 'next time' I do a dishonest 'private-job' with them so that they spend less, I earn more.
11. They are always heated about people being dishonest with people like them!
12. When they recommend us to neighbours, they always make sure that they phone the contact in and ask for discount on their next job.

and on..... and on....
And before anybody tells me that this is why they are rich, I'll answer that point now. No.......this is how they are totally dot-dash crazy about themselves, positions, money the whole thing. As in 'lost it'.
I do like all the venues I visit, but the commercial, ordinary working, student letts and family association homes I visit are always more rewarding in every way.

So...... no, we do not envy the wealthy, because they always seem so........ needy, wanting, grasping and unhappy with their lot. My wife works for a vet, and finds the horsey-types (the rich) to be the most unsatisfying (unsatisfied) customers, so we both notice it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hi....! Can I try?

Ummm..... Errrrr.... OK..
Yeah, I knew you was a dirty rich geezer when you said you had a 'Dahon' fold-up bike, instead of an ordinary steel frame folder like me, a decent poor geezer who had to visit the junk yards for ally bits to lighten mine. You scummy Dahon bikers always think you own the bleedin' pavement, and never give proper hand signals cos yer so stuck up an' all. Yeah.......

(Are you really really rich?)

I bought the Dahon on ebay at a steep discount.
Am I rich?
My net worth is hard to calculate, since some investments are either unstable or several years away from fruition.
I could be worth anywhere from a little less than nothing to about $4M. Last year, I interviewed a bankruptcy
attorney because of that possibility. I'm hoping that my life becomes calmer & less 'interesting' by year's end.
The only thing I'm sure of is my geezerhood.

 

[dust1n]

I saw the proverb on the wall of an R.E. classroom. I liked it.
I very much doubt it came from the Bible.... remember the Bible isn't Jewish!?! possibly the Torah... but it could just be a Jewish saying.... doesn't have to be a quote from a religious document

R.E. classroom...? Real estate? Did they have a poster of a kitty trying to regain its grasp of a tree branch with the text, "Keep trying" on it?

And I'm pretty sure Christians consider the Torah part of the Bible. It's usually found in the Holy Bibley thing.

But all the aside, it still doesn't really answer my question of whether people thing that poverty is rewarding (not that people can't find reward lives regardless). And my question kind of goes allow with actual definition of poverty and wealth, not with an ancient poem.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Didn't you have a bit of a rage when President Obama was re-elected? Sold off all your herds and promised to go an island in retirement? Had not even told your wife of the sale? Was that you? I just thought 'Poor bloke. Can do most anything he wants yet still needs to rage'. Honest. The rich never seem truly content.

Thats right, except I just opened up an offshore secure box, I did not move there.

I just filed my last tax return that will cause me to write a check tonight.

My income this year is ZERO, so my taxes will be zero next year.

I'm building an off grid retirement home and I set up an annuity to pay the property taxes automatically every year.

When my social security kicks in, I am donating that to charity.

I know a hostile business environment when I see one.

I quit and took my ball home with me.......game over!

So, what was your point?

 

[Alceste]

Thats right, except I just opened up an offshore secure box, I did not move there.

I just filed my last tax return that will cause me to write a check tonight.

My income this year is ZERO, so my taxes will be zero next year.

I'm building an off grid retirement home and I set up an annuity to pay the property taxes automatically every year.

When my social security kicks in, I am donating that to charity.

I know a hostile business environment when I see one.

I quit and took my ball home with me.......game over!

So, what was your point?

You got out at the right time if you were in the construction game, IMO. Mortgage debt is still poison to investors, and that will go on for ... well, until the baby boomers' kids and grand-kids can afford houses. That could be due to an increase in middle class income, or a further decrease in property values. Nothing else is going to affect that factor.

OTOH, other industries are growing. Energy, tech and entertainment for example. So it's not so much a "hostile business environment" as it is a changing economic landscape where old models of making money are faltering.

The suburban shopping mall, for example, depends on a middle class with disposable income to function. If you've done away with the disposable income of the middle class, you've done away with the shopping mall, and all the associated businesses who build, rent and maintain retail space.

Online retailers, OTOH, are booming. A local hippie set up a hydroponics equipment online retailer just after the election and it's a multi-million dollar business already, with a huge warehouse, dozens of employees, etc.

I guess my point is that you can't project your personal experience as a construction entrepreneur across the economy in general. The US economy is still growing. That growth just doesn't happen to be in your sector. And it has nothing to do with whether Democrats or Republicans are in power. In fact, the US government is basically doing nothing at all since the GOP got control of congress, so you really can't blame them for anything about the economy you're not satisfied with.

 

[Aquitaine]

Bahahahaha, I remember that scene! xD

 

[Alceste]

Bahahahaha, I remember that scene! xD

Is that the network?

 

[Aquitaine]

Is that the network?

Indeed it is my friend - "I'm maaaad as Hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

 

[oldbadger]

I bought the Dahon on ebay at a steep discount.

I always wanted the tiny Dahon 'Mu' with hub gears, but their frames started failing at the saddle post bases. I've never changed my bike, simply because I got used to it, and it's amazingly lightweight now. I can't use a Brompton because we live up a very very bad road, and these bikes can't use tyres wider than 1.25" (I use 1.9" 16" tyres).

Am I rich?
My net worth is hard to calculate, since some investments are either unstable or several years away from fruition.
I could be worth anywhere from a little less than nothing to about $4M. Last year, I interviewed a bankruptcy
attorney because of that possibility. I'm hoping that my life becomes calmer & less 'interesting' by year's end.

You're always fairly open....... thanks.
My Mum lived in a miniature bungalow, and left it to me in 2003. I asked my girlfriend (of 13 years) if she could fit us and her pets into such a tiny home. She said 'Yes'. So we rebuilt the place over the summer of 2004 and moved in. I sold my old home and gave the kids lump sums of money, and explained that they had no claim on our new tiny home; it would be Mrs B's.

I always made enough as a detective trainer. But I never trusted pensions after Robert Maxwell's behaviour. There was a wonderful hunting, fishing, shooting, camera, music, jewellery etc second hand shop at Bexhill-on-sea, and every month I had to go to Bexhill, from 84-05. I would save pound coins thru the month, and take any old junk to sell. The owner would produce a mug of tea and then we would argue tooth and nail over a fair price for one sovereign (which he sold). If I could not afford a sov I got a half sov, or even a 1/10 Kruger.......from 84-05. (?) I think you would have loved that shop! I have photos of the place, and if you give your email to me via pm I will send them to you for your enjoyment.

So, because we live cheaply and simply, we never need anything close to what our incomes are. It just takes the stress out of life. The Mr Micawber principle.

The only thing I'm sure of is my geezerhood.

Now that is the thing for others to envy...... the ability to go back to the start, cope, survive and come back, and be enjoying the ride all the way.

True wealth is happiness and contentment within the lifestyle, and it is scattered equally amongst poor and wealthy. I could go back, but it would break my heart if Mrs B was upset, and she would be.

 

[oldbadger]

Thats right, except I just opened up an offshore secure box, I did not move there.

So, what was your point?

Hi......

Oh...... it was no big point, just touching on this idea I have......that happiness and contentment and the 'big value' handouts of life are scattered to left and right, high and low, thru' rich and poor. And I remembered how upset you sounded in your after-poll posts.

That's it, really. I have known some very rich people, and noticed that quite a lot suffered from depressions and sadnesses.... not a formula, just a fact. I (probably) could not have coped with your lifestyle, because I would have worried over such a big operation far too much. I would not have been happy. Mrs B is the same....... we found a level where we enjoy life and so can accept anybody else's wealth.

I could not give a toss about taxes. We are allowed pay our annual council tax and services charges thru a whole year, but I pay the whole lot over the counter on day one of the year, so I can forget them. My friends tell me I'm stupid because I could earn a bit of money in interest (sad f--kers) but they don't figure how much it's worth to me to get rid.

 

[Shermana]

You could also claim that the only reason why the rich dude had to pay for it all was because through various legal means, he has stolen everyone else's money.

Perhaps he gets paid with corporate subsidies which the other 9's tax dollars contribute to, curteousy of his lobbying efforts at the expense of the others' businesses.

 

[Alceste]

Indeed it is my friend - "I'm maaaad as Hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

Loved that movie. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!

 

[WyattDerp]

Perhaps he gets paid with corporate subsidies which the other 9's tax dollars contribute to, curteousy of his lobbying efforts at the expense of the others' businesses.

But you see, other companies have to be driven into bankruptcy or get swallowed, or else people would not be able to have and implement new ideas. The more aggressive businesses are, and the more money gets stashed away in off-shore bank accounts, the more jobs get created. Won't you bow down and worship your Job Creator? Won't you be grateful your work is deemed fit to be exploited? No? Some people are just so ungrateful. Poor Job Creators have to fight the good fight all on their own, and for everybody

* (1/3rd of the world finances, last guesstimate I heard.... good thing the rich would never steal from the poor, as Octavia said, or that would be theft on a mass-murderous scale)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Loved that movie. I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!

Phenomenal movie! It was WAY ahead of its time, too.

 

[Octavia156]

Hi Octavia, how about this? :-

We are comfortable and would not want or need to swap places with anybody. Never felt envy or jealousy in 30 years.

But I am an observer, and so when I visit people's homes to clean their carpets (my little part-time job) I notice lots of things.
Although they are usual very friendly, richer householders seem to be 'crazy' about money and cost. As a generalisation, this is what I find in rich professional homes:- (none of this happens in ordinary homes or commercial jobs):-

So...... no, we do not envy the wealthy, because they always seem so........ needy, wanting, grasping and unhappy with their lot. My wife works for a vet, and finds the horsey-types (the rich) to be the most unsatisfying (unsatisfied) customers, so we both notice it.

We sound very similar.
I've never felt jealous or envious of rich people... i dislike materialism - I feel literally bogged down by my possessions sometimes, and although I'd LOVE to be able to afford beautiful quality clothes, a car that actually accelerates uphill and to go on holidays.. it doesn't make in the slightest bit ANGRY that others can.



Yes I have experienced similar things to you about the very wealthy - some are clearly insane, some are quite selfish. But I've met many that are extremely generous too...

 

[Octavia156]

The only thing I'm sure of is my geezerhood.

word.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Society would be so much better off without the race for money that I say let them go. If money were not an issue, the poor could be clothed, fed, and sheltered, everyone could have medical care, education could more available, and so many other problems that revolve around money are solved. Of course we would also loose alot of things, but they are things we really do not need anyways.
Even if the rich do leave, I'm very sure society will survive. Our species has done just fine without the super rich, and in fact our species tends to do better when they aren't around at all. All those people want is more, even if it means sending people to go kill each other, taking from others, destroying the environment, and always making sure that god is on their side to make it easier to manipulate the masses.

[/quote]For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.[/quote]
If that is how this professor feels, then he is a very stupid and foolish man for thinking others cannot learn.

One problem I have is that we pay the tax we have to and the rich pay the tax they want to.

Another is that in this country a lot of tax is used to subsidise the rich. That really ticks me off.

I think that is one of the worst. They want to point out someone who decides to indulge and buy a small case of beet who is also receiving food stamps, when they themselves receive thousands, even millions of dollars, from the government, to do what it is they do.

erm yes you can.

a doctor spends 7 years in higher education, has to have worked hard or be very clever to get the required grades.
His work IS worth more $$$ than someone who sweeps the streets. anyone can sweep the street, very few can perform opn heart surgery - this adequately explains why some peoples work is worth more than others.

and its not my fable, is an analogy presented by a professor of economics.

Doctors, scientists, and teachers should all have the highest paying jobs. Their jobs do require many years of schooling, alot of sacrifice, dedication, and hard work to make it through school, many times years of post-graduate school internships, and because they offer such an valuable service to society (especially teachers, who bear the weight of the future on their shoulders) they should be paid more than others. But that tenth guy in your story, in all reality, would be a banker or an investor. Someone who makes money simply because they have money. They don't actually work for it, they don't actually earn it, they buy politicians, fund lobbyist, hire fleets of super-layers, and seek out ways of making more money. Yes bankers and investors are needed. But just a handful of them have not only more money that most Americans put together, they have more money than some smaller countries combined. And it's because they have done nothing but rig the system to systematically funnel money upwards into their own pockets. Why else would large companies, such as Walmart, receive grants and other monies for expansion even though the company, being one of the worlds largest corporations, obviously does not need the help. And how else do you explain corporate person-hood, even though granting a corporation person-hood is a paradox because you can't legally own a person.

That a professor of economics could construct such an inapplicable analogy, helps to show how ridiculous the field is. If I ever saw an economist produce a model, or formulate a conclusion, that wasn't primarily based on a biased agenda, I think I'd faint.

I find the study things related to money to be dubious and suspicious at best.

Horse crap Falvlun, my 27 year old son flunked out of college and did an electrical apprenticeship for 5 years going to school at night and working all day. He took his electrical master test and got a union job, got married, bought a house, has two kids and two foster kids. They have two real nice cars. His wife cleans doctors offices with a small business she started. They are living the American dream.

My 21 year old daughter is almost done with her third year of college and works at Red Lobster on weekends making 600 a week part time.

She did have to work at McDonald's in high school and then got a low paying server job for several years before landing her present job.

She still drives the used car I gave her back in High School and shares an apartment, but she is making her own way and I have every confidence she will be successful.

She is taking International Business and will do her Senior year in the Netherlands next year. After that, she will work on her Masters and get an MBA like the old man.

She has my work ethic as does my Son and his wife.

They don't tell me B.S. stories like you do making excuses.

While that's great, imagine what their situation would have been like if they did not have such a hard working role model for themselves, had they grown up very poor and in a noisy, violent, and distracting neighborhood, poor nutrition, and what your daughter didn't have someone paying for her education?

Systematically moving millions and sometimes even billions of dollars across generations, even though no one has done anything to actually earn it since the first person who actually did earn it, is what is unfair. I applaud the rich people who are leaving their fortunes to charity, where the money can actually be put to use rather than being used to potentially prop up generations who contribute very little-to-nothing towards society. I also applaud those like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who work very hard to raise awareness of various social problems and conditions around the world and to try to find solutions for them, unlike someone like Gina Rinehart who has an ultra-sized ego and looks at some of the worlds most abhorrent work conditions and calls it competition.
But it really is meaningless to leave your kids anything. If you are rich they are probably going to be well off themselves and really don't need the money. If you are poor they are most likely going to poor themselves and the money left over often is taken in large chunks by final expenses.