For Those Who Believe in the Story of Lucifer

[lockyfan]

So it is because people have said "the end is nigh" for so long, that you are not expecting it to happen?

Hmm interesting, so If I were to say, that the bible accurately describes the days we are living in now would you believe then that maybe the end is coming soon?

Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub, whoever you want to call him, his downfall is coming soon (just so we can sty on topic)

 

[Riverwolf]

Hmm interesting, so If I were to say, that the bible accurately describes the days we are living in now would you believe then that maybe the end is coming soon?

Or rather, it accurately describes the way things have been for the past couple thousand years?

 

[lockyfan]

Not to the extent that we see now. I mean we havent seen the bloodshed genocide and natural disasters in such a concentrated hit as we do now.

Over the centuries we have seen heaps yes, but add all of it up and you see what we have seen in the last century alone. Civil wars we dont even really hear about.

Cast your mind back 10 years ago even, it was a big huge headline when we saw murder and mayhem on the front pages, now its a regular occurance and there is now a huge headline when something happy and good happens. The world is getting worse.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not to the extent that we see now. I mean we havent seen the bloodshed genocide and natural disasters in such a concentrated hit as we do now.

Do I need to direct you to Hernando Cortez and his genocide of the Aztecs? Or the slaughter and banishment of the Native Americans by the immigrants? Or heck, how about the Salem Witch Trials? And these are all in the West.

I have not seen a change in the ratio of the amount of bloodshed verses how many people there are. It's just these days there's more blood to spill and our methods have become more barbaric.

In terms of natural disasters, they've always been bad, and they've always been frequent. They have not picked up at all. It's just that people are now living in areas that are highly prone to bad natural disasters. Weather-based disasters have started to change, because of the climate changing, but others, like volcanoes and earthquakes, have not changed one bit over the millenia.

Now, yes, we are in for some really hard times, but from what I've seen of what could happen juxtaposed against mankind's greatest gift of improvisation, it will be cleverness that'll enable survival.

 

[lockyfan]

yeah you can say that, but did you see that within centries of each other or within years of each other?

Was the climate of hte world as it is now 10 years ago? Can you remember back then? Was the world as frightening, was the reports of wars and death and murder as high as it is now? No! and why, because the world has gotten worse.

Look at hte list below (I hope it shows up) it is of ony a handful of the wars that have occured in the last century and most of them listed happened during and after Christs enthronement in 1914.

Below is a table of wars and their casualties from the 1900's. And this is a rather small list of the wars that have taken place.

Also check out Wars and casualties of the 20th Century

This definately says that "nation will rise against nation" and proves that it is not something that happens once every now and then, but something that is happening daily now. The

1 20,000,000 Second World War 1937-45 2 8,500,000 First World War 1914-18 3 1,200,000 Korean War 1950-53 4 1,200,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49 5 1,200,000 Vietnam War 1965-73 6 850,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88 7 800,000 Russian Civil War 1918-21 8 400,000 Chinese Civil War 1927-37 9 385,000 French Indochina 1945-54 10 200,000 Mexican Revolution 1911-20 10 200,000 Spanish Civil War 1936-39 12 160,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62 13 150,000 Afghanistan 1980-89 14 130,000 Russo-Japanese War 1904-05 15 100,000 Riffian War 1921-26 15 100,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1956-72 15 100,000 Russo-Polish War 1919-20 15 100,000 Biafran War 1967-70 19 90,000 Chaco War 1932-35 20 75,000 Abyssinian War 1935-36

 

[McBell]

This definately says that "nation will rise against nation" and proves that it is not something that happens once every now and then, but something that is happening daily now.

Well duh.
Of course it is happening much more often than it was back in 'Biblical' times.
There are lots more people now than then.

 

[Riverwolf]

yeah you can say that, but did you see that within centries of each other or within years of each other?

Was the climate of hte world as it is now 10 years ago? Can you remember back then? Was the world as frightening, was the reports of wars and death and murder as high as it is now? No! and why, because the world has gotten worse.

No, because ten years ago, I was 11. And 20 years ago, the Cold War was just ending. A bit after that, the Loma Prietta Earthquake happened. The Golf War.

And 50 years ago, the earth was nearly destroyed.

Sorry. The earth hasn't gotten worse.

Look at hte list below (I hope it shows up) it is of ony a handful of the wars that have occured in the last century and most of them listed happened during and after Christs enthronement in 1914.

You mean after the Great War began?

Below is a table of wars and their casualties from the 1900's. And this is a rather small list of the wars that have taken place.

Also check out Wars and casualties of the 20th Century

This definately says that "nation will rise against nation" and proves that it is not something that happens once every now and then, but something that is happening daily now. The

1 20,000,000 Second World War 1937-45 2 8,500,000 First World War 1914-18 3 1,200,000 Korean War 1950-53 4 1,200,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49 5 1,200,000 Vietnam War 1965-73 6 850,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88 7 800,000 Russian Civil War 1918-21 8 400,000 Chinese Civil War 1927-37 9 385,000 French Indochina 1945-54 10 200,000 Mexican Revolution 1911-20 10 200,000 Spanish Civil War 1936-39 12 160,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62 13 150,000 Afghanistan 1980-89 14 130,000 Russo-Japanese War 1904-05 15 100,000 Riffian War 1921-26 15 100,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1956-72 15 100,000 Russo-Polish War 1919-20 15 100,000 Biafran War 1967-70 19 90,000 Chaco War 1932-35 20 75,000 Abyssinian War 1935-36

Not impressed.

Nation is now able to rise against nation much more easily than before, but things haven't changed much. There's always been a war being fought SOMEWHERE in the world, and there always will be.

And I say again, the numbers you're giving me aren't impressive because there's more people to kill nowadays than there were long ago.

 

[EtuMalku]

Hmm interesting, so If I were to say, that the bible accurately describes the days we are living in now would you believe then that maybe the end is coming soon?

No, the Christian Bible is full of inaccuracies and contradictions.

Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub, whoever you want to call him, his downfall is coming soon (just so we can sty on topic)

First of all, Satan is different than Lucifer.

As for the 'downfall' I guess if I were to think theistically, I would think the Christian era is finally coming to a close. Islamic religion is tripling in every country as we speak, practically, Pagan / Polytheistic beliefs are on the upswing all over also.

The Judaeo-Christian mentality has run its course and the ideals it has forced upon a World for a couple of centuries is becoming unstable and unjustified with time.

 

[lockyfan]

No, because ten years ago, I was 11. And 20 years ago, the Cold War was just ending. A bit after that, the Loma Prietta Earthquake happened. The Golf War.

And 50 years ago, the earth was nearly destroyed.

Sorry. The earth hasn't gotten worse.

You mean after the Great War began?

Not impressed.

Nation is now able to rise against nation much more easily than before, but things haven't changed much. There's always been a war being fought SOMEWHERE in the world, and there always will be.

And I say again, the numbers you're giving me aren't impressive because there's more people to kill nowadays than there were long ago.

Yeah really a war is that right?

ok how about Sepetember 11 then? Or the Bali Bombings or hte fact that there has been an earthquake at least once a week for hte past few months, or the fact that fewer people are going to church and there is more apathy, greed, immorality and things in te world since 1914. You may say it is because ther is more poeple well how does this sound

The Prophesy at Daniel 4:14-25 amd its meaning. When you count the years it equals 1914 in history, as a point which christ is enthroned as king and then satan is removed form heaven and hurled to the earth
revelation 12:7-12 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha‧el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time


you may say it is because there is more pople or you oculd use the bible and realise that it is Satans doing

 

[McBell]

ok how about Sepetember 11 then? Or the Bali Bombings or hte fact that there has been an earthquake at least once a week for hte past few months, or the fact that fewer people are going to church and there is more apathy, greed, immorality and things in te world since 1914. You may say it is because ther is more poeple well how does this sound

Honestly..?
It sounds to me like someone trying to make the facts fit into their particular belief box. Remember, you asked...

you may say it is because there is more pople or you oculd use the bible and realise that it is Satans doing

Hey, you wanna go around blaming Satan, go right ahead.
The problem is that you are not convincing any one outside your own little choir.

 

[LittleNipper]

Honestly..?
It sounds to me like someone trying to make the facts fit into their particular belief box. Remember, you asked...


Hey, you wanna go around blaming Satan, go right ahead.
The problem is that you are not convincing any one outside your own little choir.

Well, I don't actually believe it's ALL satan's doing. He has help. And it seems top me that in the days and weeks following 9/11, many, many people came to church seekings answers. So the chior is still growing...

 

[Riverwolf]

Yeah really a war is that right?

ok how about Sepetember 11 then?

Not impressed, either. Enemies will always ambush each other during a time of war.

Or the Bali Bombings or hte fact that there has been an earthquake at least once a week for hte past few months, or the fact that fewer people are going to church and there is more apathy, greed, immorality and things in te world since 1914.

So what? None of these things are new. We just now have the ability to see them.

Besides, you know as well as I do that people used to go to church simply because they had to, not because they actually believed it.

You may say it is because ther is more poeple well how does this sound



The Prophesy at Daniel 4:14-25 amd its meaning. When you count the years it equals 1914 in history, as a point which christ is enthroned as king and then satan is removed form heaven and hurled to the earth

Shouldn't that mean, therefore, that there's supposed to be LESS evil in the world?

revelation 12:7-12 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha‧el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time


you may say it is because there is more pople or you oculd use the bible and realise that it is Satans doing

I look for no scapegoat or some Supreme Evil, for there is no real Evil save in the human mind. (Same with Good.) I do not use the Bible to figure out what's going on in the external world; I use it for spiritual inspiration. I see nothing in Revelations to make me think that it's prophesizing about something happening right now instead of John writing about what he hoped would happen shortly after writing his piece. (Which is not the only piece of apocalyptic writing from that time period, by the way.)

 

[McBell]

Well, I don't actually believe it's ALL satan's doing. He has help. And it seems top me that in the days and weeks following 9/11, many, many people came to church seekings answers. So the chior is still growing...

really?
Wonder how many of them STILL go to church....

Gotta love them Sunday only Christians

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Well, I don't actually believe it's ALL satan's doing. He has help. And it seems top me that in the days and weeks following 9/11, many, many people came to church seekings answers. So the chior is still growing...

Wasn't the people who believe in the Christian god responsible for 9/11? Assuming you're a Christian.

 

[EtuMalku]

Wasn't the people who believe in the Christian god responsible for 9/11? Assuming you're a Christian.

:faint:What? The terrorists were Islamic not Christian. That would be the Abrahamic God, not the Christian God.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

:faint:What? The terrorists were Islamic not Christian. That would be the Abrahamic God, not the Christian God.

Yeah, but isn't "allah" "god"? From what I've read and been told it's a different religion, but the same diety, obviously god loves muslim martyrs better than american christians. I could be wrong, however.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yeah, but isn't "allah" "god"? From what I've read and been told it's a different religion, but the same diety, obviously god loves muslim martyrs better than american christians. I could be wrong, however.

The 9/11 bombers directly disobeyed the Qur'an's commandments to never attack aggressively unless in retaliation and/or self-defense.

190. Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.
(Yusuf Ali)


190Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
(Pickthall)

 

[EtuMalku]

I don't think so . . . the Quran has 164 jihad verses.

Within Islamic jurisprudence jihad is the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law, and may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, non-Islamic leaders or non-Muslim combatants.

Jihad has also been applied to offensive, aggressive warfare, as exemplified by Muhammad's own policies and the entire subsequent history of the spread of Islam. From the first generation of Islam, jihad ideology inspired the conquest of non-Muslim populations, forcing them to submit to Muslim rule or accept outright conversion to Islam.

What we have is another man-made religion that allows violence and murder in the name of Holy preservation.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't think so . . . the Quran has 164 jihad verses.

Within Islamic jurisprudence jihad is the only form of warfare permissible under Islamic law, and may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, non-Islamic leaders or non-Muslim combatants.

None of which applied to most of the innocents in the Towers or the Planes. Still a violation.

Jihad has also been applied to offensive, aggressive warfare, as exemplified by Muhammad's own policies and the entire subsequent history of the spread of Islam. From the first generation of Islam, jihad ideology inspired the conquest of non-Muslim populations, forcing them to submit to Muslim rule or accept outright conversion to Islam.

Could you direct me to Qur'anic Surahs (entire Surahs, please) that sanction such conquest?

What we have is another man-made religion that allows violence and murder in the name of Holy preservation.

Murder does not exist on the battlefield against armed and fighting opponents. The death penalty is still sanctioned today, and long ago, there were other crimes for which death was allowed. (Such as stealing.)

 

[lockyfan]

Not impressed, either. Enemies will always ambush each other during a time of war.



So what? None of these things are new. We just now have the ability to see them.

Maybe the fact that these things are growing in strength, and becomeing more frequent.

Its not thAt we are hearing more of the same old thing

this stuff is different

do you ever wonder what this world is coming too?