For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...

[gzusfrk]

No you have not answered this question previosuly, you (like always) have avoided the question. I suspect because you know that you are wrong and you don't want to look silly.

Ill tell you again in simple english. If everyone had an equal chance to become a Christian in this life, then unless due to coinsidence, there would be the same percentage of Christians in EVERY county on the planet. This is an undeniable fact. Now, you and I know that there is not the same percentage of Christians in every country on the planet. So you now have two choices, either your God is unjust (because he doe not give all an equal chance) or it is just a billion trillion to one coinsidence that the percentages are vastly different.

Care to reply? I know you are not stupid enough to not understand this, so I suspect its just ignorance. Please, please answer.



Yeah I didn't ask you who is and who is not going to be saved, I asked how it is fair. See my above reply to Muffled, feel free to answer. By saying what you have said in this post you have just admitted that your God is unfair. Care to reply?

It is usually the fault of the goverment the wont let people have bibles. It is my believe that ALL will have a chance to accept Jesus or not.

 

[McBell]

It is usually the fault of the goverment the wont let people have bibles. It is my believe that ALL will have a chance to accept Jesus or not.

Your joking right?

 

[gzusfrk]

Your joking right?

so none of the people in the OT go to heaven (abraham, noah,etc).no 5 yearolds, what about the people between Jesus and about 1400 when the bible went to print, between those times few heard of the Word.all doomed?

 

[McBell]

so none of the people in the OT go to heaven (abraham, noah,etc).no 5 yearolds, what about the people between Jesus and about 1400 when the bible went to print, between those times few heard of the Word.all doomed?

your argument is that the governments would not allow the people to have a bible.
Now you want to know about those before the Bible was compiled?

I have no idea how the two are connected.
Perhaps you could start there.

 

[HoldemDB9]

roflmao! If you had an iota of objectivity I would be nonplussed by your accusation of ignorance. However it is not I who only got as far as "fallacious reasoning" and didn't bother with the rest of the message. Respond to the rest of the message and it will give us something to discuss. As my brother likes to say statistics don't lie but people lie about statistics.

What are you talking about "respond to the rest of the message"? Please point out what you want me to answer and I will. Now please will you respond to my last post, please will you tell me how it is "fallacious reasoning", I really cannot wait to hear it. Please don't drag this thread out as long as you can before answering. Lets just keep it simple. Tell me how what I said was fallacious reasoning. This is my argument:

If everyone on the planet had an equal chance to become Christian in this life, then (unless due to coincidence) there would be the same percentage of Christians in every county on the planet.

 

[gzusfrk]

your argument is that the governments would not allow the people to have a bible.
Now you want to know about those before the Bible was compiled?

I have no idea how the two are connected.
Perhaps you could start there.

I thought I was posting to holdemdb9, however I shall go on,The question was equal chance for Jesus, thought I answered that. I could be mistaken.

 

[HoldemDB9]

It is usually the fault of the goverment the wont let people have bibles. It is my believe that ALL will have a chance to accept Jesus or not.

So you believe that we will get the chance after we die to follow Jesus?

 

[gzusfrk]

So you believe that we will get the chance after we die to follow Jesus?

I dont know about we, but yes some will get the chance after death, I believe.

 

[rasor]

Obviously nobody can say for certain what will happen, I know its just beliefs. My point is that these beliefs are contradicting in a way. I mean, how can you believe that all Christians go to heaven and that all Muslims go to hell, no matter what. And at the same time accept the fact that most Muslims don't get the same chance that Christians get to believe in Jesus. Whilst also saying that God is just and all loving. Kind of contradictory don't you think?

"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people."
Doris Egan, House M.D., The Right Stuff, 2007

 

[.lava]

Its obvious that not all get an equal chance to become a Christian. For example, a child born in India (where 80% of the population is Hindu) does not have the same chance of becoming Christian as a child born in the USA (where I think 70%+ are Christian?).

I don't know why, but for some reason many Christians seem to think that you will be held accountable for not following, once you have simply "heard" of the Bible. Hearing of the Bible does not make everything all equal.

Obviously this is not at all fair. So does God either let non-Christians into heaven or does he give some a MUCH better chance than others? I don't see any other way around it .

Christians who believe only Christian would go heaven,
Muslims who believe only Muslims would go heaven,
Jews who believe only Jews would go heaven,
ETC...ETC....ETC...

they are ALL wrong.

you either satisfied with this world and what you have in it or not. if you wish to reach your God, you earn heaven. but being satisfied with this world would not let people wish to reach God.


.

 

[gzusfrk]

Obviously nobody can say for certain what will happen, I know its just beliefs. My point is that these beliefs are contradicting in a way. I mean, how can you believe that all Christians go to heaven and that all Muslims go to hell, no matter what. And at the same time accept the fact that most Muslims don't get the same chance that Christians get to believe in Jesus. Whilst also saying that God is just and all loving. Kind of contradictory don't you think?

I think its up jesus to decide who goes and who dont. As adults in the usa I would say we all have a chance to look at many religions and decide.As a christian I have had the chance to look at the muslim religion.

 

[Muffled]

What are you talking about "respond to the rest of the message"? Please point out what you want me to answer and I will. Now please will you respond to my last post, please will you tell me how it is "fallacious reasoning", I really cannot wait to hear it. Please don't drag this thread out as long as you can before answering. Lets just keep it simple. Tell me how what I said was fallacious reasoning. This is my argument:

If everyone on the planet had an equal chance to become Christian in this life, then (unless due to coincidence) there would be the same percentage of Christians in every county on the planet.

Duh! Opportunity is not equivalent results ie. Hearing the Gospel message does not guarantee that the message will be accepted.

If the gospel message were accepted whenever a person heard it there wouldn't be any non-Christians in the world.

 

[McBell]

Duh! Opportunity is not equivalent results ie. Hearing the Gospel message does not guarantee that the message will be accepted.

If the gospel message were accepted whenever a person heard it there wouldn't be any non-Christians in the world.

If, as you are implying here, everyone on the planet has heard the gospel, why are so many Christians still trying to shove...I mean, spread the word?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It is simply amazing to me to see the same ol arguments on here.
Holdem, why do you insist on fighting with those you know you are superior too?
I have explained 3 times at least to you, that being a christian is upto God, not upto what we do or hear or see or whatever. By that reasoning everyone has an equal chance, because God saves whom he will.
I guess I am responding because you insist on arguing with "christians" that hold the idea you must do a,b,c to be saved. Then yes, your arguement wins, because not everyone has an equal chance to do a, b, c.
However if you were really serious about this discussion you read read the bible for yourself, and findout that is NOT how someone gets saved. It is entirely the business of God to save whom he will save.

 

[JMorris]

It is simply amazing to me to see the same ol arguments on here.
Holdem, why do you insist on fighting with those you know you are superior too?
I have explained 3 times at least to you, that being a christian is upto God, not upto what we do or hear or see or whatever. By that reasoning everyone has an equal chance, because God saves whom he will.
I guess I am responding because you insist on arguing with "christians" that hold the idea you must do a,b,c to be saved. Then yes, your arguement wins, because not everyone has an equal chance to do a, b, c.
However if you were really serious about this discussion you read read the bible for yourself, and findout that is NOT how someone gets saved. It is entirely the business of God to save whom he will save.

how does someone get saved? this is genuine curiosity . i was under the impression that one must accept jesus as their lord and savior. clearly not everyone gets an equal chance at this.

if that isnt the case, and god simply chooses who he will or will not save, then does a person have any influence on whether he/she gets saved or not? is getting saved at all reliant on anything the bible teaches? if so, again, this is unfair. if not, then whats the bible's point?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

how does someone get saved? this is genuine curiosity . i was under the impression that one must accept jesus as their lord and savior. clearly not everyone gets an equal chance at this.

if that isnt the case, and god simply chooses who he will or will not save, then does a person have any influence on whether he/she gets saved or not? is getting saved at all reliant on anything the bible teaches? if so, again, this is unfair. if not, then whats the bible's point?

Here is the problem, typically christians have deep issues to deal with. On the one hand they have destruction to worry about and on the other the whole business of getting right with God. In the mix of all that, we have created the opium brand of christianity that controls the masses of christians.

The truth is, when the bible is read in it's entirety God does things for his own plesaure and purpose. The idea that a perfect God needs any of us is perposterous. As such, in many places throughout the bible God kills and creates, he builds and destroys for absolutely his own purpose and we sit back and say wow, why did he do that, that was mean.

What I would recommend to you since you say you are genuinely curious is to do a search in the bible for all things related to wisdom, and see what the bible teaches about wisdom. I am sure you won't find what you think you might find. It all boils down to the fear of God is where wisdom starts.

This whole business of doing a,b,c and so forth is a very awful attempt at arresting God, so that we can live out our lives without fear. Terrbile mistake.

It is in this realm that true christianity is alive. Christianity can not be labeled or bottled or classified because it is alive and ever moving. We constantly learn about God and as such are constantly humbled by how little we really know.

How do we get saved? The real question is why should God save us?

 

[JMorris]

Here is the problem, typically christians have deep issues to deal with. On the one hand they have destruction to worry about and on the other the whole business of getting right with God. In the mix of all that, we have created the opium brand of christianity that controls the masses of christians.

The truth is, when the bible is read in it's entirety God does things for his own plesaure and purpose. The idea that a perfect God needs any of us is perposterous. As such, in many places throughout the bible God kills and creates, he builds and destroys for absolutely his own purpose and we sit back and say wow, why did he do that, that was mean.

What I would recommend to you since you say you are genuinely curious is to do a search in the bible for all things related to wisdom, and see what the bible teaches about wisdom. I am sure you won't find what you think you might find. It all boils down to the fear of God is where wisdom starts.

This whole business of doing a,b,c and so forth is a very awful attempt at arresting God, so that we can live out our lives without fear. Terrbile mistake.

It is in this realm that true christianity is alive. Christianity can not be labeled or bottled or classified because it is alive and ever moving. We constantly learn about God and as such are constantly humbled by how little we really know.

How do we get saved? The real question is why should God save us?

wow, you make god sound like a self-centered sociopath. from what you just said, the only thing god has to offer is terror, and fear is the only reason to worship him. and he saves and condemns people on a whim.

are you sure your god isnt named "Sheogorath"? i wonder if anyone else will get that reference?

 

[McBell]

wow, you make god sound like a self-centered sociopath. from what you just said, the only thing god has to offer is terror, and fear is the only reason to worship him. and he saves and condemns people on a whim.

are you sure your god isnt named "Sheogorath"? i wonder if anyone else will get that reference?

"I once dug a pit and filled it with clouds....
or was it clowns....
come to think of it, it began to smell...
must have been clowns.
Clouds don't smell, they taste of butter. And tears."​

 

[JMorris]

"I once dug a pit and filled it with clouds....
or was it clowns....
come to think of it, it began to smell...
must have been clowns.
Clouds don't smell, they taste of butter. And tears."​

lmao, atleast Sheogorath was funny!

 

[Just_me_Mike]

wow, you make god sound like a self-centered sociopath. from what you just said, the only thing god has to offer is terror, and fear is the only reason to worship him. and he saves and condemns people on a whim.

are you sure your god isnt named "Sheogorath"? i wonder if anyone else will get that reference?

And the fruit begins to rot...

You say it seems God has only terror to offer. Does it really matter what he has to offer? If he is real and the One who breathed into you the air of existance that use to condemn him with, what reason would he have for you?
No offense, just philosophizing about God. If you don't believe in God to begin with than it doesn't really matter.
Thanks for the reply.