For those who believe that only Christians go to heaven...

[SpiritualBeing]

I ask respectfully. Where did you get this idea from?

When Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, the gates were locked. I believe that Adam and Eve were actually in Heaven. For did Jesus not spend a few days in Hell to open the gates of Heaven and forgive Mankind of their sins?

I mean, the Bible is not exactly clear about what Heaven is, and so I have drawn the conclusion that it must be the Garden of Eden. It kind of computes when you think on it. The Garden of Eden was a garden created by God,l as has been described as a paradise, and so has Heaven.

:candle:

 

[HoldemDB9]

I must conclude you get your beliefs from sources outside of the bible.

Roli since you don't agree with SpiritualBeing (that non-Christians can get to heaven), will you please answer what Muffled wont...

lockyfan you can answer too...

Since not all get an equal chance in this life to become Christian I only see two options: Either your God is unjust or he lets non-Christians into heaven. Which is it? Or is there a 3rd option?

 

[roli]

I guess maybe a better question would be "why do some Christians seem to think they have monopoly on the concept of heaven?"

Christianity isn't the only religion that has an afterlife concept of some sort of bliss, ascension or closeness to deity. Some Christians seem to think they have rights over who gets in though...as if it is an exclusive country club...or at least they'd like it to be. Goodness knows these self-righteous Christians would hate to think they've bowed and cowered and thought themselves better all their lives for something that someone who did none of that gets as well. Kind of a kick in the shins huh?

Your absolutely right, Christianity does not have the only afterlife concept, is'nt it interesting to note that many others have some sort of eternal life concept linked to there religion. Which one will you buy into, it's like the biggest gamble one will make, ..or is it. Can you know for certain.
Heaven is exclusive and the heaven Christians talk about is the heaven the bible talks about and while it is open to all to come to that heaven there is only one way a person gets there..that would be "Jesus" any other way would be the false way.
You may believe in your version of God and/or heaven and that everybody go's there one way or another and maybe you don't believe in hell.

The question I ask you is are you absolutely, positively sure ....or is this an intellectual assumption for arguement sake only.

Have you experienced this heaven here on earth, do you have an internal excitement and joy that your going there or an assurance and certainity that it is your destiny.

If you don't.... it's possible you have either a myth or a vivid imagination

 

[tumbleweed41]

Have you experienced this heaven here on earth, do you have an internal excitement and joy that your going there or an assurance and certainity that it is your destiny.

If you don't.... it's possible you have either a myth or a vivid imagination

And if you do....you may just have a vivid imagination.

 

[darkmage121]

When it comes to Heaven and Hell, Wiccans like myself have a different point of view. We believe in two things. First, we believe in reincarnation. The soul of the dead will be recycled into a new body. Second, all souls will eventually come to rest, regardless of their deeds done in life, in the "Summerland".

 

[logician]

Life is temporal.

 

[Enoch07]

Obviously nobody can say for certain what will happen, I know its just beliefs. My point is that these beliefs are contradicting in a way. I mean, how can you believe that all Christians go to heaven and that all Muslims go to hell, no matter what. And at the same time accept the fact that most Muslims don't get the same chance that Christians get to believe in Jesus. Whilst also saying that God is just and all loving. Kind of contradictory don't you think?

Actually Muslims, and Jews do know of Jesus. As he is a major prophet in both religions. Just in Christianity he is the Messiah, while the jews and muslims are still waiting for their Messiah.

 

[Katzpur]

Actually Muslims, and Jews do know of Jesus. As he is a major prophet in both religions. Just in Christianity he is the Messiah, while the jews and muslims are still waiting for their Messiah.

Unless I'm mistaken, you're right about how Muslims see Jesus but wrong about how Jews see Him. I started a thread on the Judaism DIR just before Easter, asking for Jewish input on how Jesus is viewed by their religion. All of the answers I got were that He was either a myth (i.e. He never really existed at all) or He was a fraud. As a Christian, I actually am more comfortable with the Muslim view of Jesus than I am with the Jewish view of Jesus.

 

[Enoch07]

Unless I'm mistaken, you're right about how Muslims see Jesus but wrong about how Jews see Him. I started a thread on the Judaism DIR just before Easter, asking for Jewish input on how Jesus is viewed by their religion. All of the answers I got were that He was either a myth (i.e. He never really existed at all) or He was a fraud. As a Christian, I actually am more comfortable with the Muslim view of Jesus than I am with the Jewish view of Jesus.

Hmm you could be right. I am not 100% sure how the Jews viewed him, but they did know of him, which still goes along with what I was trying to say.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

Qura'an Ch.2

94 Say (unto them): If the abode of the Hereafter in the providence of Allah is indeed for you alone and not for others of mankind (as ye pretend), then long for death (for ye must long for death) if ye are truthful.


95 But they will never long for it, because of that which their own hands have sent before them. Allah is aware of evil-doers.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Actually Muslims, and Jews do know of Jesus. As he is a major prophet in both religions. Just in Christianity he is the Messiah, while the jews and muslims are still waiting for their Messiah.

When did I say that Muslims and Jews do not know of Jesus? Honestly, you need to read very slowly. My point is that someone who is born in a Muslim country does not have the same chance at becoming Christian as someone born in a Christian country, and this is not fair.

Your really starting to annoy me now with the whole "any chance is an equal chance" thing. Just because it is possible for an Indian to become Christian, does not mean that they have the same chance as an American. I thought a 9 year old child could understand this.

 

[Draka]

Your absolutely right, Christianity does not have the only afterlife concept, is'nt it interesting to note that many others have some sort of eternal life concept linked to there religion. Which one will you buy into, it's like the biggest gamble one will make, ..or is it. Can you know for certain.

Can you?

Heaven is exclusive and the heaven Christians talk about is the heaven the bible talks about and while it is open to all to come to that heaven there is only one way a person gets there..that would be "Jesus" any other way would be the false way.

That might be true...if and only if Christians have gotten lucky and got it right. There's also a huge chance they are wrong as well.

You may believe in your version of God and/or heaven and that everybody go's there one way or another and maybe you don't believe in hell.

The question I ask you is are you absolutely, positively sure ....or is this an intellectual assumption for arguement sake only.

I'm absolutely, positively sure I have been presented with evidence that substantiates my beliefs and discredits yours. That's why I believe as I do. I wouldn't believe how I do without having a valid reason to.

Have you experienced this heaven here on earth, do you have an internal excitement and joy that your going there or an assurance and certainity that it is your destiny.

Yeppers. I don't call it "Heaven", but yeah, excitement, joy, assurance...have all that in spades. Thanks for asking.

If you don't.... it's possible you have either a myth or a vivid imagination

Your religion is based on just as much mythology as mine is. Try to remember that.

 

[Muffled]

I guess maybe a better question would be "why do some Christians seem to think they have monopoly on the concept of heaven?"

Christianity isn't the only religion that has an afterlife concept of some sort of bliss, ascension or closeness to deity. Some Christians seem to think they have rights over who gets in though...as if it is an exclusive country club...or at least they'd like it to be. Goodness knows these self-righteous Christians would hate to think they've bowed and cowered and thought themselves better all their lives for something that someone who did none of that gets as well. Kind of a kick in the shins huh?

Concepts can't be monopolized. If a Hindu wanted to listen to what Jesus says about Heaven no-one could prevent it.

This is true but that doesn't mean that the other concepts are authoritative. At best they offer an extremely thin hope of getting to Heaven. Christianity offers a certainty.

First of all Christians are not self righteous; we are righteous because we are Christians and it was not something that we did by ourselves. Second the Christian life is not onerous but the burden is light and the yoke is easy. Third all Christians would rejoice if others joined them in Heaven, otherwise we wouldn't bother telling other people about it.

 

[darkmage121]

Muffled, won't you be surprised when you don't go to heaven, rather you join us in the Summerland. Fear not though, the Great Mother Goddess will still greet you as a friend with open arms and we will all rejoice with your presence.

 

[Muffled]

Roli since you don't agree with SpiritualBeing (that non-Christians can get to heaven), will you please answer what Muffled wont...

lockyfan you can answer too...

Since not all get an equal chance in this life to become Christian I only see two options: Either your God is unjust or he lets non-Christians into heaven. Which is it? Or is there a 3rd option?

I have answeered this question previously. Everyone has an equal opportunity to learn how to get to Heaven. Your postulation otherwise are based on prejuidice. It is like saying that Muslims and Hindus are too stupid to understand what a moron can understand. I met one who had as good an understanding as any highly intelligent person.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I have answeered this question previously. Everyone has an equal opportunity to learn how to get to Heaven. Your postulation otherwise are based on prejuidice. It is like saying that Muslims and Hindus are too stupid to understand what a moron can understand. I met one who had as good an understanding as any highly intelligent person.

Yes, as good a chance IF they hear the message, but not everyone who has ever lived has had that chance.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I have answeered this question previously. Everyone has an equal opportunity to learn how to get to Heaven. Your postulation otherwise are based on prejuidice. It is like saying that Muslims and Hindus are too stupid to understand what a moron can understand. I met one who had as good an understanding as any highly intelligent person.

LOL

Ok then if everyone in this life gets an equal chance to become Christian then why isn't there the same percentage of Christians in India as there is in the USA? Coincidence?

 

[HoldemDB9]

Yes, as good a chance IF they hear the message, but not everyone who has ever lived has had that chance.

Wrong. And this is what the Christian seem to also believe. Why on earth do some people seem to think that ALL chances are equal?

Just because a person in India has been given a chance to become Christian, does not mean that this chance is equal to someone who was born in America. Obviously a baby born in India has a SMALLER chance of becoming Christian than a baby born in America. The baby born in India still had a chance, still had a choice, still "heard the message", but it is NOT an equal chance, therefore it is unfair.

 

[logician]

When did I say that Muslims and Jews do not know of Jesus? Honestly, you need to read very slowly. My point is that someone who is born in a Muslim country does not have the same chance at becoming Christian as someone born in a Christian country, and this is not fair.

Your really starting to annoy me now with the whole "any chance is an equal chance" thing. Just because it is possible for an Indian to become Christian, does not mean that they have the same chance as an American. I thought a 9 year old child could understand this.

It's logically absurd from any realistic viewpoint to think someone must "take on" a certain religion to gain some supposed afterlife, given that many people throughout history naturally would never have heard of said religion, which means, of course, that "my way or the highway" religions are not consistently logical.

 

[Draka]

Concepts can't be monopolized. If a Hindu wanted to listen to what Jesus says about Heaven no-one could prevent it.

Wow, when you're determined to miss a point you do it well.

This is true but that doesn't mean that the other concepts are authoritative. At best they offer an extremely thin hope of getting to Heaven. Christianity offers a certainty.

This is true but that doesn't mean that Christianity concepts are authoritative. At best they offer an extremely thin hope of getting into Summerland. Wicca offers a certainty.

All can play that game.

First of all Christians are not self righteous; we are righteous because we are Christians and it was not something that we did by ourselves. Second the Christian life is not onerous but the burden is light and the yoke is easy. Third all Christians would rejoice if others joined them in Heaven, otherwise we wouldn't bother telling other people about it.

Not all Christians are self-righteous. Just the ones like you. You are also appearing quite egotistical here as well. And you needn't worry about telling so many people, especially on this forum. The vast majority of us are already quite content with our beliefs. Many of us already have a clear picture of the afterlife without you trying to dictate to us how you are right and we are all wrong when the truth is...you don't have a clue. There is no gaurantee that you are right. There really isn't. You may have your reasons for believing in what you do, but guess what, we do too. It's not like all non-Christians are just blind fools walking in the darkness waiting for you to come save us with your Jesus candle. It doesn't work that way.