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Freemasonry
- Thread starter grandsecretary
- Start date
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I know that. That doesn't address my question, though.
My question is, if Freemasonry was the originator of Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc - then why are they different from one another? Why do they all exist, if they came out of Freemasonry?
grandsecretary
Member
Who says? Of course it is.
DEFINITION - Religion: (a system of belief and worship) expressed through prayer and ritual.
Question 1) Does your freemasonry not use prayer, and ritual?
If it does (I believe it does), then it is a religion and limitless amounts of mental reservation cannot change this. That is why the Vatican spits blood about your "new Naturalistic Religion". This is not me saying this. Eminent theologians who know far more than I will ever know are saying this.
Question 2) Must your freemasonry open its lodges in the presence of The Holy Bible and the Square and Compasses?
If it does not, it cannot be freemasonry. If it does, using The Holy Bible and the Square and Compasses together, then together they signify the presence of God.
FURTHERMORE:
The "new Naturalistic Religion" of freemasonry referred to by the Vatican and others (see Question 1). Not my words, the words of The Grand Officers of YOUR Grand Lodge of New York of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, Moderns (UGLE) Constitution.
Question 3) Who is kidding who?
No more disinformation please, especially not on this thread
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DeamonPainter
Member
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Freemasonry was not the originator of those groups and Freemasonry is NOT a religion!!! (You can continue to say that it is grandsecretary but I know of at least 29,000 Freemasons, which is my state only, that would disagree with you, not including the entire country or countries of Free and Accept Freemasons.)
If it were a religion it would exclude many men as they have their own faiths and practices.
Where Grandsecretary states that the lodge is opened with a bible sitting out, whatever your belief system is, is what would be sitting on the altar. If you are a follower of Islam the Quran is put on the altar.
You call me a UGLE plant yet
1. I don't live in England.
2. I belong to an Australian Grand Lodge which has nothing to do with England.
Are you really that paranoid that UGLE is trying to hunt you down at every turn. I'm sure they would have the resources just to find out where you live. Ever heard of a private investigator? So if they were really trying to hunt you I'm sure they would have got you by now.
You stated 'No more disinformation please, especially not on this thread'
You sir have provided this disinformation. You have made the accusations, not I.
You insult all those who wish to question you and then use a bunch of information from your website to back up what you are saying.
Sir maybe I stand accused in your eyes, but in the eyes of a madman :areyoucra all human beings stand accused.
Good day to you!
led by the spirit
NATSARIM
Definition of Religion = A substitute for God's way.:yes:
All religions cannot save anything at all and may only profit the flesh.Tis vanity for sure.
All religions cannot save anything at all and may only profit the flesh.Tis vanity for sure.
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grandsecretary
Member
Why?
Your Grand Lodge would not exist unless it was given a "Charter" by the Moderns United Grand Lodge of England, and your Book of Constitutions is their Anderson's Book of Constitutions. You work under their jurisdiction, The United Grand Lodge of England, as a subordinate Grand Lodge.
Of course you do, and we all know that a million lemmings cannot possibly be wrong. Please be clear. I do not presume to speak FOR your Moderns form of freemasonry, I simply disagree when you say that it is not a religion. I am far from alone on this issue (see posting #149).
In fact I am in exactly the same situation as you are. In this case I agree with the vast majority. You do not speak for non-Moderns. Our Free Masonrie is a religion. Are you saying that it isn't? If so, why?
Please deal with the issues. Try to refrain from evasion, diversion, and personal insult. I understand that you might feel insecure, either because you do not wish to face the consequences of actually dealing with the issues, or because your beliefs have been questioned, BUT:
In order to clarify matters, and also to assist non-Masons here, why does a Muslim have a copy of the Quran on an altar with the Square and the Compasses together, placed upon the open Quran.
Would you please also confirm that in your lodges it is necessary for "the Volume of the Sacred Law", in this case the Quran, and the Square and Compasses to be present in order that the meeting be considered a regular masonic meeting, and why?
Would you please also deal with the statement of the Grand Lodge of New York, and perhaps explain why ALL of the major Churches and religions, including Islam (and me) disagrees with you.
Why, for instance, does the Roman Catholic Church automatically ex-communicate freemasons? Why do the Islamic nations ban freemasonry, and punish freemasons by seizure of their property, terms of imprisonment, and execution by public hanging?
May we PLEASE discuss the religious issues. This is NOT a Masonic forum, it is a Religious Education forum.
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grandsecretary
Member
Are you saying that the grand lodge members of the World do not meet and acknowledge one another when attending meeting of world organisations?
Peers over the edge of glasses and looks down nose whilst awaiting a reply...
Yes.
Moderns meet with Moderns. Who else do you meet with?
Mod Post
Gentlemen please refrain from personal attacks 1. Off-topic personal comments about Members and Staff
Personal attacks are strictly prohibited either on the forums or by Private Messaging, Signature Lines and Visitor Messages. Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff.
Thanks in advance
Gentlemen please refrain from personal attacks 1. Off-topic personal comments about Members and Staff
Personal attacks are strictly prohibited either on the forums or by Private Messaging, Signature Lines and Visitor Messages. Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff.
Thanks in advance
grandsecretary
Member
Just to assist the religious debate, this is but a partial list of those Churches and Faiths which have officially condemned, as a matter of policy and doctrine, Freemasonry per se, as being "a new Naturalistic Religion" incompatible with their beliefs:
Islam
Roman Catholics
Anglicans
Methodists
Baptists
Russian Orthodox
Presbyterians
Church of Scotland
Free Church of Scotland
Wesleyan Methodist Church
Assemblies of God
Christian Reformed Church of America
Lutherans
The Roman Catholic church automatically excommunicates Freemasons. The Islamic world bans Freemasonry and punishes Freemasons by seizure of property and assets, imprisonment and/or execution by public hanging.
Islam
Roman Catholics
Anglicans
Methodists
Baptists
Russian Orthodox
Presbyterians
Church of Scotland
Free Church of Scotland
Wesleyan Methodist Church
Assemblies of God
Christian Reformed Church of America
Lutherans
The Roman Catholic church automatically excommunicates Freemasons. The Islamic world bans Freemasonry and punishes Freemasons by seizure of property and assets, imprisonment and/or execution by public hanging.
grandsecretary
Member
The Square and Compasses when placed together on top of the Holy Book represent the presence of God in a Masonic lodge or meeting.
The Holy Book is the word of God. By way of illustration, the Square and Compasses together, form the symbol that is also used on the Labarum or Chi Rho. It represents the Alpha; the beginning; what was; God.
A Masonic lodge cannot be regular unless the three Great Lights: The Holy Book; the Square; and the Compasses are present and open in the Lodge as described and illustrated.
This is a general answer to all here for information purposes.
The Holy Book is the word of God. By way of illustration, the Square and Compasses together, form the symbol that is also used on the Labarum or Chi Rho. It represents the Alpha; the beginning; what was; God.
A Masonic lodge cannot be regular unless the three Great Lights: The Holy Book; the Square; and the Compasses are present and open in the Lodge as described and illustrated.
This is a general answer to all here for information purposes.
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grandsecretary
Member
I am very sorry logician but I am totally confused by your posting. Would you please be kind enough to let us know what Masonic "services" that you have witnessed, and where?
Many thanks.
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DeamonPainter
Member
Freemasonry is not the pratice of all religions nor is it the practice of one religion, it accepts man of all faiths and creeds. Freemasonry is not a replacement for any church nor is it a replacement for any religion one may follow.
Ok, back to Grand Secretary,
The reason why the Quran would be placed on the altar if your a follower of islam is because that is the faith you believe in. When I joined Freemasonry they asked me if I required any particiular holy book on the altar. This is to show that men of all faiths and creeds can come together and be at peace with eachother, have unity and friendship even though our ideals and casts might seperate us.
The Roman Catholic churce does not automatically ex-communicate its members. More then a few of my brothers in my lodge alone are Roman Catholic, we also have a priest in another lodge that I visit. I was told by this priest that in the 1970's the pope at the time declared that it was ok for Roman Catholics to belong to Freemasonry. It was never masons banning Catholic's but Catholic's banning masons.
In all secretive groups there is an element of fear on the outside as people do not unerstand why they are secretive or why they do what they do.
Not all Islamic Nations ban Freemasonry. I recently met a brother who came from Saudia-Arabia and who practiced Freemasonry there. He said many years ago there was a true need for secrecy but now it wasn't as bad. They were still hassled by the Government but they were no longer put in prision.
I really can't speak for the many other faiths as there are too many of them and I truely don't know if they condemn it or not.
You refer to many masons as 'millions of lemmings', there is a good reason why millions of masons belong to officiated Freemasonry. A few being so that some tyrant can't use them for his own purposes such as money scams and as a means to gain power and influence over others.
There have been far too many Rogue Grand Lodges over the years that have brought a lot of good hearted people into the craft only to take their money. One such example was a group that was bringing people in then having them hand over large sums of money. The money was an 'investment' that just happened to go missing. These people left the craft and now have a negative opinion of it from one rogue group. That is the reason I got involved in this conversation in the first place. You didn't really make it clear that you were an unofficiated group.
grandsecretary
Member
This is quite ludicrous:
It is the easiest thing in the world to check to see if the Roman Catholic Church excommunicates their members who are freemasons.
See here, and please take the trouble to read it: Humanum Genus
CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Humanum Genus (1884)
This is the latest statement, emailed to me by the Vatican:
It is quite wrong, and highly dangerous to those who might wish to visit Saudi Arabia to suggest that Freemasonry takes place on its Sovereign territory.
It does NOT. It is proscribed by law. It is punishable, exactly as I described.
Whether you like it or not, I am a professional Grand Secretary with many years of training and experience behind me. I do this for my living and have to deal with these sensitive issues on a day to day basis.
I have to consider the safety of all Freemasons. You don't.
Please, if you are a freemason and you plan to visit ANY Islamic country, do NOT mention that you are a Freemason or take Masonic records or regalia with you. You will be arrested and deported, if not worse.
I can speak for the other faiths because likewise I have to deal with them. I am currently talking to the Chief Rabbi in order to obtain a statement from him in respect of Jewry and Freemasonry.
You are a very dangerous man. Please do not meddle in what you have not a clue about. You have already, quite stupidly and recklessly, put lives at risk due to your irresponsibility.
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Them being masons is in direct contradiction of the Church's edicts... as I said in another thread, the Church deems all secret societies illicit...
grandsecretary
Member
It is my religion (An Céile Dé), and it has been for many years. I have learned a great deal, still do, and I am also a teacher.
It is also, partly, my living. I am an employee of The Grand Lodge of All England. I enjoy being a Free Mason, very much indeed.
I have travelled to many parts of the world as a Free Mason, and I have met many people that I would never have had the opportunity to meet if it were not for my being a Free Mason.
My sons are both Free Masons and this provides us with a unique relationship and a special bond.
I do have a VERY active and busy life without Free Masonrie, private and professional.
I hope that this answers your question to your satisfaction.
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blackout
Violet.
Is there a reason that females cannot participate in your religion?
Is freemasonry a male religion by it's very nature?
(I already know there are "sister" societies... but I'm not interested in them.
I'm interested in the freemasonry that excludes females.)
again. curious. not attacking.
Is freemasonry a male religion by it's very nature?
(I already know there are "sister" societies... but I'm not interested in them.
I'm interested in the freemasonry that excludes females.)
again. curious. not attacking.
blackout
Violet.
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