French Burka Ban

[waitasec]

Women voting wasn't acceptable once upon a time, child labour was - like this issue they were contested and resolved.
This will be too.

this i find to be very interesting...
the reason why women were not able to vote was because they were not considered to be equal to men in the first place. now that women have reached that status, not completely mind you, we want to allow for women to choose to be subjected to mens ideals...
the reason for the niqab is to cover and to perpetuate the lowly and secondary position of women compared to men...it's blatantly obvious.

why would anyone one want to cover their face?

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

France leads the way in the right direction as liberation comes only when all inhibitions are shed and burkha is surely a great physical one. The timing too is correct when followers of islam specially in islamic countries are realising what liberation/freedom really means.

LOve & rgds

 

[Badran]

so you must agree that western women should be able to go to any muslim country and be free to wear their western clothing and walk around with their hair showing?

Of course.

I would agree with you on that too, but its not the case...westerners must abide by muslim dress code or they will be arrested and punished

its comes down to treating others as you want to be treated yourself. If muslims want to wear their religious clothing in western lands, they must allow westerners to wear their clothing in muslim lands.

Well i understand and agree, but realize of course that its not in those women's hands to decide that.

 

[Badran]

we want to allow for women to choose to be subjected to mens ideals...

You're right, i guess its best you make their decisions for them then. It doesn't matter that its their freedom, and it doesn't matter that its their religion. Since you think they're making the wrong choice here, it is indeed the right thing to do for you to step in and set things straight.

why would anyone one want to cover their face?

It doesn't matter if you understand or not.

 

[Badran]

France leads the way in the right direction as liberation comes only when all inhibitions are shed

This is an inhibition.

 

[waitasec]

This is an inhibition.

so covering some ones face isn't holding back or restraining that persons quality of self-assurance, personality or character...?

 

[nameless]

This is an inhibition.

agreed, inhibiting the inhibition ..

 

[waitasec]

You're right, i guess its best you make their decisions for them then. It doesn't matter that its their freedom, and it doesn't matter that its their religion. Since you think they're making the wrong choice here, it is indeed the right thing to do for you to step in and set things straight.

this is not progress...this is bronze age idealism....
it's male chauvinism that has been perpetuated to the point where little girls become indoctrinated into the notion they are of less value then their male counter part.

It doesn't matter if you understand or not.

of course it matters....

why aren't men subjected to wearing one? again with the double standards.
if the men wore them too i wouldn't be saying anything...

 

[Badran]

so covering some ones face isn't holding back or restraining that persons quality of self-assurance, personality or character...?

Not if they chose to.

And for arguments sake if we assume that this choice does hold back, its their choice not yours.

this is not progress...this is bronze age idealism....
it's male chauvinism that has been perpetuated to the point where little girls become indoctrinated into the notion they are of less value then their male counter part.


of course it matters....

why aren't men subjected to wearing one? again with the double standards.
if the men wore them too i wouldn't be saying anything...

Once again, this is your view of the burqa, which on its own is completely irrelevant to whether or not it should be banned.

 

[Badran]

agreed, inhibiting the inhibition ..

1) This in itself inhibits other women, thus does not result in ending or helping in ending inhibitions.

2) It doesn't even solve the problem in the first place, because men who force their women to wear this, can still force them to stay at home.

 

[Chisti]

wait, you don't live in the west....


so you a person who lives in pakistan is telling me, a westerner, what is deemed to be acceptable cultural behavior...the audacity...
talk to the hand....:biglaugh:

You still haven't provided any evidence. Seems like you're getting more and more frustrated.

 

[blackout]

I feel uncomfortable with people who walk around with their faces totally covered but that is my problem. They should be allowed to wear them if they want HOWEVER there should be no special cases to allow them to be worn when other dress codes are required.

...and as well, if others decide they also want to walk around with their faces covered,
in WHATEVER manner, masks, scarves, casper the ghost sheets, helmets, covered hoods, glitter and glue GaGa style....
horror, goth, masquarade, flamboyant, high fashion....
they should not be subject to any harassments that their burqa wearing contemporaries are not subject to.

I have said in these threads before that life would be much more interesting,
if people were a bit more "Gotham".
If society is fine with a masquaraded population,
and guarded/hidden identities as a social daily norm,
then the Burqa is an excellent step in the right direction.

 

[blackout]

I really wish, that especially some Muslim Women
would comment on my suggestion,
because I really do think it is a way to WIN-
(ie get the bottom line of what you want)
by using French Fashion as a "cover".

It's a REAL suggestion.
I'd like to know what you think.

Well maybe if they made meat burqas,
and red vinyl burqas?

Face it. France is High Fashion.
Spice those bags up girlz!

If they can't identify it as a "burqa" Proper......
You tell them it's HIGH FASHION.
And work it!

Cover yourSelves with some kind of non generic style
and I can't see how they can arrest you.
I'm being SERIOUS about this.
(Oddly),
It's not the face covering they are concerned with.

Make it 'Coiture'!, (not Burqa)
each covering, a one of a kind fashion,
expressive of your own personal inner identity,
and REALLY what CAN they say or do about it?!

"We arrested this woman, Your Honor, for wearing a Burqa"

"No Your Honor, this is Coiture. The officer is mistaken."

 

[Badran]

If society is fine with a masquaraded population,
and guarded/hidden identities as a social daily norm,
then the Burqa is an excellent step in the right direction.

Its one thing to be comfortable with it its another to make it legal. You don't have to be comfortable with it, i'm not.

 

[nameless]

1) This in itself inhibits other women, thus does not result in ending or helping in ending inhibitions.

need to eduacate them that religion has nothing to do with face covering.. thus there would be no inbition. Once they tastes what freedom is, they feels the difference.

2) It doesn't even solve the problem in the first place, because men who force their women to wear this, can still force them to stay at home.

not necessarily... probably they would change as their fellow muslims change.

 

[blackout]

Its one thing to be comfortable with it its another to make it legal. You don't have to be comfortable with it, i'm not.

Well if face covering is going to become some kind of a societal norm,
I see no reason at all why I shouldn't take advantage of that
in terms of my own freedom of Self expression in dress.

I honestly think I would enjoy walking down a city street
being able to see everyone else,
and having them only able to see my covering.
(which surely would be an interesting one)

I think I would do it frequently enough,
just for the experience of it.

It would also be easier to protect yourSelf from an attacker at night
from under a bag like covering. You could arm yourSelf, underneath,
and no one on the outside would know your premptive defensive posture.

 

[Badran]

need to eduacate them that religion has nothing to do with face covering.. thus there would be no inbition. Once they tastes what freedom is, they feels the difference.

I agree this is not part of the religion, however they don't. My opinion and yours are not better than theirs. So, there still would be inhibition. And as for tasting freedom, those of them who chose to wear it had already been tasting freedom, until France decided to take it away for them.

not necessarily... probably they would change as their fellow muslims change.

Not necessarily of course, i'm pretty sure based on your experience you know how despicable these people are.

Let me give an example of this situation. We have a problem with some men beating up their wives with a broomstick. So, someone decided to ban selling broomsticks. Resulting in hurting other people who use broomsticks properly, and the people who sell broomsticks. While the man who actually does the beating, will just find something else to beat up his wife with. Problem not even close to being solved, on the contrary, we only added to it.

All of this of course assuming that this was France's intent, which is not the case.

 

[Badran]

Well if face covering is going to become some kind of a societal norm,
I see no reason at all why I shouldn't take advantage of that
in terms of my own freedom of Self expression in dress.

I honestly think I would enjoy walking down a city street
being able to see everyone else,
and having them only able to see my covering.
(which surely would be an interesting one)

I think I would do it frequently enough,
just for the experience of it.

It would also be easier to protect yourSelf from an attacker at night
from under a bag like covering. You could arm yourSelf, underneath,
and no one on the outside would know your premptive defensive posture.

Well if you happen to be really okay with it i have no problem. I only thought you were thinking that making it legal has to mean that we're okay with it.

 

[blackout]

Well if you happen to be really okay with it i have no problem. I only thought you were thinking that making it legal has to mean that we're okay with it.

If something is going to become a "norm",
I'm the type who will usually just .

I do like observing people though.

I suppose it might be interesting to observe people in bags?
*suddenly thinks of potato sacks and barrels*.

The world is a stage.

 

[Badran]

If something is going to become a "norm",
I'm the type who will usually just .

I do like observing people though.

I suppose it might be interesting to observe people in bags?
*suddenly thinks of potato sacks and barrels*.

The world is a stage.

One thing is for sure they will remain a minority. My country has a majority of Muslims, yet the number of women who wears it is still a minority. So i'm not so sure it will become a norm if you mean by norm very common.