Frustrated athiest asks why do you believe in God?

[F1fan]

The analysis of those facts are in your head.
All verification of "knowledge" whether math or other things is technically in your head. If you have certain 1+1=2, then you can have certainty in other things, despite it all being in your head. This includes telepathy.

Imagine that, my brain processing data is in my head. Where else would it be?

And telepathy isn't know to be a real phenomenon.

Let's note the human brain is capable of acknowledging real things like cats and apples, but also creating imaginary things like Hobbits and elves. From what we understand about reality Gods are more like elves than apples.

 

[Link]

Imagine that, my brain processing data is in my head. Where else would it be?

And telepathy isn't know to be a real phenomenon.

Let's note the human brain is capable of acknowledging real things like cats and apples, but also creating imaginary things like Hobbits and elves. From what we understand about reality Gods are more like elves than apples.

I'm saying acknowledging this or refuting should not involve the discussion that its in "your head". Your head registers facts, this doesn't say there is no soul or no God or no light because we have a brain, all this is conjecture.

 

[F1fan]

I'm saying acknowledging this or refuting should not involve the discussion that its in "your head". Your head registers facts, this doesn't say there is no soul or no God or no light because we have a brain, all this is conjecture.

As I just stated our minds can acknowledge facts, but also invent or adopt fantasies, illusions, the imagined.

Our skill as thinkers is how we develop skill, and intellectual ethics, to discern what it real and true versus what is false and untrue.

Gods can't be shown to be true, so they default into the category of: untrue.

 

[Link]

As I just stated our minds can acknowledge facts, but also invent or adopt fantasies, illusions, the imagined.

Our skill as thinkers is how we develop skill, and intellectual ethics, to discern what it real and true versus what is false and untrue.

Gods can't be shown to be true, so they default into the category of: untrue.

Why can't God or exalted beings not be known to be true? What's your proof? You being awfully circular with your categorization. It's pure assertion.

 

[F1fan]

Why can't God or exalted beings not be known to be true?

Because no one can demonstrate they exist outside human imagination. Can you? Can you present facts that these exist? Can Hindus demonstrate their Gods exist to you?

What's your proof? You being awfully circular with your categorization. It's pure assertion.

I defer to the rules of logic. The burden of proof is on the claimants. Above you reference a God and exalted beings. I don't know what you mean by either, so present facts that either exist in reality.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Bible is full of contradictions since there are countless verses where God encourages killing others. Whether one calls it "murder" or not is merely making excuses.

Do you always only read half a book to decide who the hero is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you always only read half a book to decide who the hero is?

What makes you think that is what I do? I could have asked the same of you. One should not ignore the evil and incompetence of God if one interprets the Bible literally.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I understand this, but I'm using "strong" as a broad metaphor as used by those who don't understand the science and proper terminology. I am hoping to move their understanding with their own terms away from an unworkable religious framework to a crude realistic framework.

I know that you understand, the problem is that creationists are far too likely to take words literally. The correction was not really aimed at you.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How about not creating beings that need to be killed? Let's note your God allows many bad people to survive this culling. It either doesn't do its job, or doesn't exist.

And how does killing a 5 year old girl make the world a better place? How does using Leukemia and taking almost two years to kill her making the world a better place?

Ahh, so you believe God causes everything? You don't think humans bear any responsibility?
This world as portrayed in scripture is broken by sin. Sickness and pain are the result. This world isn't the end of the story, it's just the test.
And yes the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Karma doesn't exist. Good people and bad people get sick. We aren't living in heaven or hell... we are in between.
All will be made new. The girl will live on somewhere, hopefully in a perfect world where she will never know pain or loss again. All it takes is a little trust that God is good even though we can't see him working sometimes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What makes you think that is what I do? I could have asked the same of you. One should not ignore the evil and incompetence of God if one interprets the Bible literally.

Incompetence implies that God is responsible for everything that humans do. That's not logical.

 

[Link]

Because no one can demonstrate they exist outside human imagination. Can you? Can you present facts that these exist? Can Hindus demonstrate their Gods exist to you?


I defer to the rules of logic. The burden of proof is on the claimants. Above you reference a God and exalted beings. I don't know what you mean by either, so present facts that either exist in reality.

I can and have many times. Quran describes disbelievers repeating "why not a proof..." even while Mohammad (s) was performing miracles. This is nothing new.

You've been around long enough to know what I've presented as proofs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Incompetence implies that God is responsible for everything that humans do. That's not logical.

So God is not omnipotent or omniscient? Your beliefs appear to be self contradicting.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can and have many times. Quran describes disbelievers repeating "why not a proof..." even while Mohammad (s) was performing miracles. This is nothing new.

You've been around long enough to know what I've presented as proofs.

That is only a claim in the Quran. How would one confirm that there ever were any miracles? By this standard the Christian Bible is true since Jesus did more and better miracles than Muhammad.

 

[Link]

That is only a claim in the Quran. How would one confirm that there ever were any miracles?

Right now, because of time, we can't. But history reports Twelve Imams (a) doing miracles, and even their opponents recorded them as "Karamat" and argued this is something God honors his friends by. However, because of time, people can doubt these historical reports.

The only way to know is by the Guide of our time, and this why Quran says "The disbelievers say why not a sign regarding him be revealed You are only a Warner and for every people there is a Guide", meaning there is a Guide for every people to these miracles. In this time, the Guide is hidden and so if you want to see miracles of that kind, you will have to pray to God and turn to him often.

"The disbelievers say why not a sign regarding him be revealed say God misguides who he wishes and guides to him who turns to him (often)"

The Quran talks about the Guidance and includes miracles, but we need a present person to perform these miracles as a sign of him being appointed by God. This Guide is hidden but praying to God to meet him, will get us to be guided by his hands if God wishes.

 

[Ostronomos]

God appoints those supreme geniuses to serve him.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right now, because of time, we can't. But history reports Twelve Imams (a) doing miracles, and even their opponents recorded them as "Karamat" and argued this is something God honors his friends by. However, because of time, people can doubt these historical reports.

The only way to know is by the Guide of our time, and this why Quran says "The disbelievers say why not a sign regarding him be revealed You are only a Warner and for every people there is a Guide", meaning there is a Guide for every people to these miracles. In this time, the Guide is hidden and so if you want to see miracles of that kind, you will have to pray to God and turn to him often.

"The disbelievers say why not a sign regarding him be revealed say God misguides who he wishes and guides to him who turns to him (often)"

The Quran talks about the Guidance and includes miracles, but we need a present person to perform these miracles as a sign of him being appointed by God. This Guide is hidden but praying to God to meet him, will get us to be guided by his hands if God wishes.

I seriously doubt that. You have publications from disbelievers, not the Quran itself where it only claims that disbelievers acknowledged that these miracles? If you only have the Quran and the Hadith then you do not have proper support.

And don't pass the buck. It appears that you are trying to blame the victim here. Can you support your claims or are weak apologetics all that you have?

 

[Wildswanderer]

So God is not omnipotent or omniscient? Your beliefs appear to be self contradicting.

Being omnipotent isn't the same as causing everything.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nonsense, loving thy neighbor has everything to do with what jesus taught. If your conservatives friends are intolerant of gays then you offer an example of how these Christians are hypocrites and antiChrists.

Opposing something that isn't marriage by definition isn't intolerance.

 

[F1fan]

Ahh, so you believe God causes everything? You don't think humans bear any responsibility?

Assuming sound mental health, most humans are responsible for their behavior.

But the issue is HOW your God created humans. Many have mental defects and can't be responsible for their behavior. Some lack intelligence. Some lack moral concern. Some are attracted to authoritarian power and will follow immoral policies. Some will excuse corrupt leaders since their personal views are protected. A God could have created people mature and wise and consistently intelligent and mentally healthy. It didn't. Those people are what they are, not due to their bad choices. Children born with genetic defects and have serious illnesses is not their fault, so who's fault would that be if not the Creator?

What we observe in human and all other animal evolution is biological forms that exist due to the pressures of nature, not any God or supernatural cause. At best you can claim a God started life but let it do it's own thing. If you are going to push a biblical scenario then the Creator is going to be accountable for what exists, and exactly as it exists. I just pointed out better options for creating humans, yet your God created many humans with faults that are not due to their choices.

This world as portrayed in scripture is broken by sin. Sickness and pain are the result. This world isn't the end of the story, it's just the test.

Then it is all created this way by your Creator. If this God is perfect, then it made no mistake in creating people with defects. If sin exists, then it was part of what this God designed and intended.

And yes the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Karma doesn't exist. Good people and bad people get sick. We aren't living in heaven or hell... we are in between.

Almost as if no Gods exist the way believers think.

All will be made new. The girl will live on somewhere, hopefully in a perfect world where she will never know pain or loss again. All it takes is a little trust that God is good even though we can't see him working sometimes.

This is what humans tell themselves because they have no real answers.

This way of thinking was created because we humans assume we are special. If we are special why are little kids dying from cancer, like other animals? Well it must be that God wants them now. Why? Because whatever. The alternative is that we humans are just like other animals and we suffer like any other, no rhyme or reason. That's pretty scary. It's more fun to assume we are special.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Would you think twice about putting out ant poison since you are a higher power? You can stomp on them and feel nothing. Yet you are going to become an ant to save their souls?

I would not. Which just proves my point.. if the ants get in my house I'm going to take them out, but apparently God doesn't have the same right?
And yet he became one of us ants in order to save us from self destruction