leibowde84
Veteran Member
Oh ... I thought they just wanted a message put on the cake. Unless the cake store is out of icing, then I fail to see how it would be out of stock.
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Gay Cake Row: How have we come to this point?
- Thread starter Ultimatum
- Start date
Wait - so this was an online purchase through their web site? The article didn't mention that at all, and showed a picture of a bricks-and-mortar cake shop.
In any case, this was on the page you linked to:
You're confusing ingredients with the finished product. Normally, a store chooses to sell a limited range of products. For instance, a cake shop might only do wedding cakes and not birthday cakes... not even birthday cakes with thact same ingredients as their wedding cakes.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Honestly, I don't think there would have been an issue if they just said, "here's the cake, but you have to write the message in icing yourself". They don't have a right to refuse to sell cakes to homosexuals.
Would filling every window and door lock on a building with SuperGlue be a peaceful response or not?
Tom
AFAIK, they didn't refuse to sell a cake to homosexuals; they refused to make and sell a particular cake.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Wasn't the only issue the message on the cake, though? They obviously "make cakes". My point is this: if they sell cakes, they have to sell cakes to everyone, no matter what they intend to use them for. Now, if they had some problem with a particular message on the cake, they should have made the cake and asked the couple to add in the writing. I don't see how that is an infringement of any rights.
Wirey
Fartist
We may decline to accept your order for any reason whatsoever.
So they may decline to serve you a cake because you're black? Or Jewish? Or a single mom? Or employed by Starbucks? Or left handed? Think the law would agree with them?
I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend about this. The law says you may NOT refuse service to someone based on their sexuality. When you do, you broke the law and will be punished. How can that be confusing? If Jesus means that much to you, pay the fine, settle the lawsuit, and pat yourself on the back and be happy your hate-filled actions will guarantee your trip to a version of Heaven you think exists. But don't claim this was a moral judgment you made. It was hatred, pure and simple. The New Testament contains a single reference to non-homosexuality, and 347 that say "Help the poor". So, I say the law should be that you can refuse to make a gay wedding cake, but you then have to donate 347 times that purchase price to the Food Bank.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
They can put whatever they want on their site, but that doesn't mean it is legal. They are completely disregarding the Civil Rights Act.
The Civil Rights Act as in the American law? I would expect a British company doing business in the UK to disregard American law in general.
Did you mean the Human Rights Act? It's British law, but it only sets out rules for the public sector, not the private sector.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I'm a moron. Foot officially in mouth.
Most of those, no. You can't contract for an illegal purpose, and refusing to serve a customer on the basis of their race or religion is illegal.
"We'll sell you a cake, just not this cake" is not refusal of service.
No worries. It happens to everyone.
Wirey
Fartist
Yes it is. We'll sell you your wedding cake, but since you're black and I'm a Christian, instead of saying "True Love Forever, Bill And Marcia" it has to say "And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren," is illegal. The Bible belongs in church, not business. Can I tell a gay couple they can't have a joint account at my bank, or eat in my restaurant, or come to my hospital? A service is a service, and society says you have to offer it equally to everyone, or else.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
OK let's look at a couple different situations. A man calls a taxi company. when the taxi arrives he asks to be taken to another city over a hundred miles away. the driver says he can't do that.the man says he is gay and will sue for sexual discrimination. should the taxi driver be forced to take him there. or what if the customer is black and says he will sue for racial discrimination. how much control should government have?
second example. there is a very well known tailor who makes high quality expensive suits for men. one day a woman says she wants a suit made. it does not matter why. maybe she is going to a halloween party.the tailor says he nevber makes suits for women because he is not comfortable working with the female body and does not want to mess up and do a poor job. then the woman says she is a lesbian and will sue. should the tailor have to make a suit for her. should a business have any contrl over what business it takes or does not take or should government control ever decision
second example. there is a very well known tailor who makes high quality expensive suits for men. one day a woman says she wants a suit made. it does not matter why. maybe she is going to a halloween party.the tailor says he nevber makes suits for women because he is not comfortable working with the female body and does not want to mess up and do a poor job. then the woman says she is a lesbian and will sue. should the tailor have to make a suit for her. should a business have any contrl over what business it takes or does not take or should government control ever decision
The Enlightened One
Contrarian
In response to the OP, IMO, if you are going to conduct business for the public then you don't get to pick and choose which ones. Likewise, if I go to a place that offers a service and they refuse that service(the decorations on the cake) then I'm going to complain - it's not their business, I didn't invite them or their opinion, I requested a legitimate service and expect to be satisfied.
The Enlightened One
Contrarian
These are vaslty different from the situation at hand, offering arbitrary points about the potential for corruption is a strawman. They also aren't requesting homosexual themed services. There are ways to check into claims, if we got hung up on the potential for things to go wrong then legislation would grind to a halt on the broad scope.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Does anyone else remember the incident some years ago involving the white supremacists who named their child Adolf Hitler, and a small bakery refused them services (but Wal-Mart didn't)? It may have just been the writing, but it's been so long ago I don't remember.
It's no wonder we're all so fat in America with our controversies revolve around cake and pizza.
It's no wonder we're all so fat in America with our controversies revolve around cake and pizza.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I still stand firm in my opinion that it's bull**** these people are seeking legal protections to discriminate, yet I have had to deal with with rude customers belittling and degrading me with absolutely no legal protections or ability to turn them away.
