Genesis 2

[Ken Brown]

Enough to know that your only providing a faith based opinion with no evidence.

Which is not how one determines history.

I understand the theology and mythology quite well, but thank you.

Hi outhouse, don't you understand that what I say is not according to the theologians and commentators of traditional christianity? I have given you a completely different version of the Genesis account, and you misunderstand what I have said by THINKING I am speaking about the flood. You really do not comprehend well do you? KB

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, don't you understand that what I say is not according to the theologians and commentators of traditional christianity? I have given you a completely different version of the Genesis account, and you misunderstand what I have said by THINKING I am speaking about the flood. You really do not comprehend well do you? KB

I understood well enough to know you headed out into the supernatural, to explain history.

It doesnt work like that.

 

[outhouse]

I understood quite clearly your OEC. You just cannot justify your faith with known history and get the two to match up without mental gymnastics.

Credible sources please.

 

[Ken Brown]

I understood well enough to know you headed out into the supernatural, to explain history.

It doesnt work like that.

Hi outhouse, NO, I am not going into the supernatural, I am going into the Scriptures, and looking at the creation from a perspective that you have little understanding of. Take for instance Genesis 1:2..the earth WAS without form, and void, yet Elohim creates NOTHING that way:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith Yahweh that created the heavens; Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] Yahweh; and [there is] none else.

Do you see that outhouse? Elohim did not create the earth in vain (G8414-without form), yet, it BECAME without form, and void. From the time, in the beginning, that the heavens and earth was made, the earth BECAME without form and was void. Now, when you look at Psa 104:30:

Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

It clearly indicates that when Elohim SENDS forth His Spirit, they are CREATED, and the face of the earth is RENEWED. Please apply that to Genesis as the Spirit was sent forth and was "moved" upon the face of the waters.

Also, please consider Yeshua's words concerning this present "age":

Mt 12:32 “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this "age" has an "age" which is yet to come, logic tells us that there were also prior "ages." Is it unthinkable to have had an "age" of dinosaurs on this earth? Why would you be against this form of logic and thinking? KB

 

[Ken Brown]

I understood quite clearly your OEC. You just cannot justify your faith with known history and get the two to match up without mental gymnastics.

Credible sources please.

Hi outhouse, here is one:

Old Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You seem to always quote Wikipedia. KB

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, here is one:

Old Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You seem to always quote Wikipedia. KB

'
Making any historical tie to the OT, as a explanation of the earth and its life requires mental gymnastics.

The OT is theology, not a science, geology, or history book.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, NO, I am not going into the supernatural, I am going into the Scriptures, and looking at the creation from a perspective that you have little understanding of. Take for instance Genesis 1:2..the earth WAS without form, and void, yet Elohim creates NOTHING that way:

Isa 45:18 For thus saith Yahweh that created the heavens; Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] Yahweh; and [there is] none else.

Do you see that outhouse? Elohim did not create the earth in vain (G8414-without form), yet, it BECAME without form, and void. From the time, in the beginning, that the heavens and earth was made, the earth BECAME without form and was void. Now, when you look at Psa 104:30:

Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

It clearly indicates that when Elohim SENDS forth His Spirit, they are CREATED, and the face of the earth is RENEWED. Please apply that to Genesis as the Spirit was sent forth and was "moved" upon the face of the waters.

Also, please consider Yeshua's words concerning this present "age":

Mt 12:32 “Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

If this "age" has an "age" which is yet to come, logic tells us that there were also prior "ages." Is it unthinkable to have had an "age" of dinosaurs on this earth? Why would you be against this form of logic and thinking? KB

I find that to be a supernatural explanation with no real scientific backing.

Tp me, your only explaining the mythology as a rational replacement for what is known, scientifically.

 

[Thief]

I find that to be a supernatural explanation with no real scientific backing.

Cause and effect is VERY scientific.

 

[outhouse]

Cause and effect is VERY scientific.

What caused your deity?


It looks like a later culture who compiled two different previous deities, who then called it the one all powerful creator deity.

But that is on my opinion. And most historians.

 

[gnostic]

Cause and effect is VERY scientific.

True...but in science, there required to be EVIDENCES to support the EFFECTS, and more importantly, there required to be EVIDENCES to support the CAUSES.

In science, the CAUSE need evidences. Using "cause-and-effect" as your motto and your claim that it is "scientific" is meaningless, if you don't have scientific evidences to prove it.

Without EVIDENCES to support both, then your claim of "God-did-it" is completely baseless, and is only matter of opinion or belief, which has nothing to do with science.

And in order for you to use your claim that God is the CAUSE of the creation being "scientific" and all, you would have to provide "scientific" evidences that God is responsible.

And "scientific backing" mean "evidences", not just "cause-and-effect". Within science, "cause-and-effect" have to be coupled with EVIDENCES.

Do you even understand what "evidence" mean?

 

[Ken Brown]

I find that to be a supernatural explanation with no real scientific backing.

Tp me, your only explaining the mythology as a rational replacement for what is known, scientifically.

Hi outhouse, what about the Menarche? You do not find that scientific? You think it is just a coincidence that the Moon and the menstrual cycle mirror each other and that a young girl's first period is called a Menarche-moon beginning? And what about the Scripture which states the Moon will turn to blood..supernatural or scientific fact?

And is it just a coincidence that the Scriptures state that Yeshua was "sent" to this world as the "light" of this world to give it LIFE (John 1), and so that believers could REFLECT Him, and this was written several thousands of years BEFORE science had any understanding of "photosynthesis?" Doesn't the sun send forth it's light to the world for the life of the world and so that the Moon can reflect that light. I suppose this is just another supernatural explanation and nothing scientific about it?

Outhouse, if you continue in your foolish denial of what the creation teaches about Elohim and His power and plan to redeem and save you from being a sinner, then you will become a sad statistic. KB

 

[metis]

Hi metis, I'm sure you have a list of things which you believe to be foolishness. But here is the thing, IF your list is based upon false assumptions by you, then you basically are believing in the foolishness. It all boils down to the TRUTH. If what you believe is false, then that is foolishness, but if what you believe is Truth, then that is honorable. KB

Actually I have no beliefs whatsoever in the religious area, nor do I have any beliefs that deny there may be a god or gods. I'm going to shortly post a thread entitle "Looking for or Finding 'God'", so you might want to check that out for more clarification of my approach on this.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, what about the Menarche? You do not find that scientific? You think it is just a coincidence that the Moon and the menstrual cycle mirror each other and that a young girl's first period is called a Menarche-moon beginning? And what about the Scripture which states the Moon will turn to blood..supernatural or scientific fact?

WOW!

Ancient people observed and used a primitive form of biology they didnt even understand other then tieing two events together.!

Genesis must be correct now! :slap:

And is it just a coincidence that the Scriptures state that Yeshua was "sent" to this world as the "light" of this world to give it LIFE (John 1), and so that believers could REFLECT Him, and this was written several thousands of years BEFORE science had any understanding of "photosynthesis?" Doesn't the sun send forth it's light to the world for the life of the world and so that the Moon can reflect that light. I suppose this is just another supernatural explanation and nothing scientific about it?

I see that as using poor interpretation to force fit what ever you want, where ever you want it too.

With that logic, one can make the bible say what ever it wants

Nice ! I love you you seem to take things out of context to match science.

Outhouse, if you continue in your foolish denial of what the creation teaches about Elohim and His power and plan to redeem and save you from being a sinner, then you will become a sad statistic. KB

First of all I view creation as mythological literature.

I view your gods as mythological literature.


I view your shallow desperate threat, as a weakness.


Why do you argue known history and factual science and then try to force what many view as mythology in place of these two, when you have ZERO evidence to back your position?????????????? and we have facts?

 

[sincerly]

First of all I view creation as mythological literature.

I view your gods as mythological literature.

I view your shallow desperate threat, as a weakness.

Why do you argue known history and factual science and then try to force what many view as mythology in place of these two, when you have ZERO evidence to back your position?????????????? and we have facts?

Outhouse, your rhetoric of the "many" is just as valid for those who were a part of that evidence and attested to the truths of their witness.
Where is the evidence that the theory of evolution produced the "life" as we know it. Since you claim it to be a known "fact", then One should have the ability to form "life" in a test tube that has been filled with a vacuum. It has not been accomplished and you are aware of that fact.
No matter how long(14+billion of years and counting) one manipulates that test tube---it will not Occur.
Your "faith" that such did happen rests in the same evidence(what all sees about themselves) that the Creator GOD Produced by speaking it into existance.
Besides that which is seen, one observes "man's inhumanity to man" which was prophesied by that Creator GOD.
Therefore, mankind will have an opportunity to witness the Creation of a new heavens and a new earth werein dwelleth Righteousness---LOVE to GOD and fellow beings.

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse, your rhetoric of the "many" is just as valid for those who were a part of that evidence and attested to the truths of their witness.
Where is the evidence that the theory of evolution produced the "life" as we know it. Since you claim it to be a known "fact", then One should have the ability to form "life" in a test tube that has been filled with a vacuum. It has not been accomplished and you are aware of that fact.
No matter how long(14+billion of years and counting) one manipulates that test tube---it will not Occur.
Your "faith" that such did happen rests in the same evidence(what all sees about themselves) that the Creator GOD Produced by speaking it into existance.
Besides that which is seen, one observes "man's inhumanity to man" which was prophesied by that Creator GOD.
Therefore, mankind will have an opportunity to witness the Creation of a new heavens and a new earth werein dwelleth Righteousness---LOVE to GOD and fellow beings.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

 

[Thief]

You should recognize metaphor when you see one.


I think if people don't realize metaphor and allegory, they ruin Genesis by trying to drag history from theology.

So you can't read between the lines?

It's actually truth right on the mark.

That you can't stick you 'history' label on it....doesn't make it anything less.

 

[outhouse]

So you can't read between the lines?

It's actually truth right on the mark.

That you can't stick you 'history' label on it....doesn't make it anything less.

Your faith explains nothing at all.

 

[Thief]

Your faith explains nothing at all.

Your denial is not a final verdict.

 

[outhouse]

Your denial is not a final verdict.

No real history has already determined the verdict, you deny. :yes:

 

[Thief]

No real history has already determined the verdict, you deny. :yes:

The verdict is a future event....

Living in the past?