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Genesis 2

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Yep... That's called "Deism." The belief that a deity brought forth the cosmos, set the laws of science/ nature into place, and abandoned the universe, without sending any "Prophets" ,"Messiahs" , "Popes", "Priests", "Rabbis" , "Imams" or "Holy Books." The so called "word of God" is the universe itself, and nothing more.

Well I guess I'm not a Deist then.
I do view the situation as 'Hands off' as set in motion by God.
But I don't go so far as to leave God out of it.
I suspect the Almighty tweaks His creation now and then.
That garden event altered the body and reset the spirit of Man.
The prophets come around...now and then.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
sincerly said:
However, trying to "flesh out"/make fact the creation of something from nothing and then producing "life" from that "nothing", has NOT occurred and, therefore, is NOT Fact.----But, is "faith in science".
Life didn't come out of nothing.

The definition of "nothing" is that it has no matter, and if there are no matter, then it has no atoms.

So this creationist's argument against science where "nothing" make life, is nothing more than attacking the straw-man.

This nothing produced or created life, has nothing to do with evolution, because evolution is biological study on life that already exist. It is about how life adapt so that it can survive changing environment.

It also has nothing to do with abiogenesis, because nothing can't turn into something. Abiogenesis is about producing non-living matter into living matter, and my point is that non-living matter is not "nothing".

You have no idea what you're talking about, sincerly. You don't understand neither abiogenesis nor evolution, and making yourself sounding ignorant by posting such statements, when you don't understand biology (evolution) or biochemistry (abiogenesis).

Your post that life came out of nothing is nothing more than you feeble attempt at attacking the straw-man.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Life didn't come out of nothing.

The definition of "nothing" is that it has no matter, and if there are no matter, then it has no atoms.

So this creationist's argument against science where "nothing" make life, is nothing more than attacking the straw-man.

This nothing produced or created life, has nothing to do with evolution, because evolution is biological study on life that already exist. It is about how life adapt so that it can survive changing environment.

It also has nothing to do with abiogenesis, because nothing can't turn into something. Abiogenesis is about producing non-living matter into living matter, and my point is that non-living matter is not "nothing".

You have no idea what you're talking about, sincerly. You don't understand neither abiogenesis nor evolution, and making yourself sounding ignorant by posting such statements, when you don't understand biology (evolution) or biochemistry (abiogenesis).

Your post that life came out of nothing is nothing more than you feeble attempt at attacking the straw-man.

How about....God created Man of Day Six and stepped back....
altering the environment to alter the form.

But....generation moving quickly we might over run the environment before the spiritual portion matures.

So....Chapter Two of Genesis.

I lean to the science guys that suspect there was an 'alteration'.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
thief said:
How about....God created Man of Day Six and stepped back....
altering the environment to alter the form.

But....generation moving quickly we might over run the environment before the spiritual portion matures.

So....Chapter Two of Genesis.

I lean to the science guys that suspect there was an 'alteration'.

Sorry, thief. I don't understand how your reply relate to anything I have written to sincerly...

I do understand what you mean that god create everything in those 6 days, but then alter the environment so that it would alter what he had created, but I don't see how that's a respond to my post. I don't see the connection.

Sincerly think that evolution is producing something out of "nothing", which is not true. No matter how many time people have tried to teach him what evolutionary biology is, he either ignorantly ignore them or he is deliberately and intransigently attacking a straw man.

I don't know which is worse, him refusing to learn, or him attacking evolution by misrepresenting evolution that doesn't exist.

To give you an example of evolution, say that we have a family of tortoises living in one island, where the environment is suitable for them: good climate, and vegetation are low enough for them to reach and with leaves they can feed on. So physically, these tortoises would have short neck, short legs and the usual shells.

Now say a group of these tortoises separated from this family, and found their way on another island, where the climate and terrains are different: drier climate, and the leaves on vegetation are higher off the ground, making it very difficult to reach.

So this group have to change their feed habits, where they have to stretch themselves to reach for their food; they have to work harder than the other tortoises in the original island. Their shells are still same shape and structure, their necks and legs are still short. Nothing can really change for them, physically or anatomically.

In order for this group of tortoises to survive, they have to adapt to the new environment. If the pairs of tortoises of this generate mate with each other that have the longest necks and legs; those that, may die out in the next generation.

If you have watch documentaries on wildlife, you will often see two or more male animals competing against one another...sometimes quite violently, to see who become alpha male that can mate with group of females, and produce generation of new and hopefully better offspring.

Among the carnivore animals, strength or speed is one of qualities that the females would look for in their alpha males. But that not always the case in wildlife. It could be about their looks, like which have better hide or pretty feathers (birds for instances), or who could sing better or louder than other males (again birds).

In the case, tortoises on the 2nd island, the alpha male would be the one who have the longest neck and legs. A new generation of tortoises should have slightly longer neck and legs. And this new generation will produce another new generation of offspring with even slightly necks and legs than their parents.

Because they have to crank their neck, the shape of the shell would gradually and structurally change its shape, with each successive generations of tortoises, until eventually the tortoise have enough space in their shells, known as "saddleback shell", that they can crank their necks in upright-position.

There is a great pictures of tortoises with saddleback shells at Galápagos tortoises @ Wikipedia.

The Galápagos Islands are some of the places that Darwin had visited, and these tortoises were some of the species he had studied nearly 30 years before he published his theory on Natural Selection.

This is what it mean by Natural Selection, creatures producing offspring that are better adapted than them or their ancestors. It may take a few generations or hundreds or thousands of generations for us to see the anatomical or genetic changes.

Evolution is not about life coming out of "nothing", and evolution was never never about origin of first life. Origin of first life is called abiogenesis in science.

But even then, abiogenesis is not about making life out of nothing, but trying about making inorganic compound into a living organic compound. This is more a field of chemistry than biology. Inorganic matters or compounds are not "nothing".

All MATTERS are SOMETHING, whether they be organic or inorganic. Even antimatters and dark matters are SOMETHING.

The only way there can be NOTHING if there were no "matters" in a vacuum.

This is what sincerly doesn't understand or he is deliberately misrepresenting these scientific theories.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
Sorry, thief. I don't understand how your reply relate to anything I have written to sincerly...

I do understand what you mean that god create everything in those 6 days, but .......

You don't have to explain evo to me......I get it.

I believe the Creator made it all....out of nothing.

As for the details on this planet....one move at a time.
Dinosaurs were good for a awhile.
Time for them to be extinct?.......drop a rock on the planet.....gone.

Time for a better form to take their place?......Man as a species....Day Six.

Time for Man to make a leap?....Chapter Two....an experiment in a garden.

God behind it all?
I think so.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly However, trying to "flesh out"/make fact the creation of something from nothing and then producing "life" from that "nothing", has NOT occurred and, therefore, is NOT Fact.----But, is "faith in science".

Hi outhouse, Where is that "living matter" which was produced from the absence of matter ??
Photosynthesis doesn't explain anything concerning the life process. The production of Oxygen by that process only adds to equation of misunderstandings of the "faith in science". It adds another---where did the CO2 come from for the liberation of the oxygen by that process.
"Life"didn't come about by happenstance. Mankind(scientist) still has not produced LIFE. They have only given theories which are assumed and not proven to be "facts"
That is what is "agreed upon".


Im not sure you understand what evidence based FACTS are.

Hi outhouse, You may believe about me whatsoever you desire.
Those "evidence based facts" would have to be reproducible; and you have failed to reproduce the so called Big bang Theory, firstly, and then from that "living material"/matter (i.e.) plant and animal life.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Sincerly think that evolution is producing something out of "nothing", which is not true. No matter how many time people have tried to teach him what evolutionary biology is, he either ignorantly ignore them or he is deliberately and intransigently attacking a straw man.

Gnostic. the question which you are not answering with your illustrations is where and from what did those "matters" originate?
"Abiogenesis" is a supposed theory for the beginning of life forms. Where are your "reproducible" specimens. Life begets/comes from life of the same species(after their kind). . Other suppositions begets delusions/deceiveability.

Mutations do occur within the organism.(during the embryonic process.) However, that does not constitute anything , but a deformity from the parent.

Evolution is not about life coming out of "nothing", and evolution was never never about origin of first life. Origin of first life is called abiogenesis in science.

But even then, abiogenesis is not about making life out of nothing, but trying about making inorganic compound into a living organic compound. This is more a field of chemistry than biology. Inorganic matters or compounds are not "nothing".

All MATTERS are SOMETHING, whether they be organic or inorganic. Even antimatters and dark matters are SOMETHING.

The only way there can be NOTHING if there were no "matters" in a vacuum.

This is what sincerly doesn't understand or he is deliberately misrepresenting these scientific theories.

Yes, you are dealing with "something" and that "something" that the scriptures are speaking of in Genesis Two was "created by the LIVING Creator GOD".
 

gnostic

The Lost One
sincerly said:
Gnostic. the question which you are not answering with your illustrations is where and from what did those "matters" originate?
"Abiogenesis" is a supposed theory for the beginning of life forms. Where are your "reproducible" specimens. Life begets/comes from life of the same species(after their kind). . Other suppositions begets delusions/deceiveability.

Mutations do occur within the organism.(during the embryonic process.) However, that does not constitute anything , but a deformity from the parent.

sincerly said:
Yes, you are dealing with "something" and that "something" that the scriptures are speaking of in Genesis Two was "created by the LIVING Creator GOD".

I have come to realize...and it should have hit me sooner...that you are not interested in learning or understanding science. Clearly you are incapable of learning.

Worse still you are continuously misrepresenting science that you don't understand, which doesn't lead to honest debate.

The Genesis creation is not a science book, pretending that it is, is only further making a fool of yourself. Genesis give no explanation to the physics or astronomy or earth science of the planet. And Genesis 2 give us no understanding of the human and animal bodies.

Does the Genesis explain how the eyes or ears function? Or the brain or heart? Does the bible explain how reproduction organs function?

Say God did it, is infantile answer that require no education in biology. And clearly you uneducated in the matter of biology. And I have no desire to teach you when you don't want to learn.

So I won't bother further replying to you, until you can learn to distinguish between evolution and abiogenesis, or between evolution and atheism. If you can't make the distinctions then I am wasting my time with you.

Go bother someone else here.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Hi outhouse, You may believe about me whatsoever you desire.
Those "evidence based facts" would have to be reproducible; and you have failed to reproduce the so called Big bang Theory, firstly, and then from that "living material"/matter (i.e.) plant and animal life.

I think you may have a comprehensive issue here.

Does it state the big bang is fact? No it does not. It does not say a word does it?

Why would you say something is true, when it is not? what do they call people who make statements that are not true??? I know there is a word for peole like that, what is it?

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
Gnostic. the question which you are not answering with your illustrations is where and from what did those "matters" originate?
"Abiogenesis" is a supposed theory for the beginning of life forms. Where are your "reproducible" specimens. Life begets/comes from life of the same species(after their kind). . Other suppositions begets delusions/deceiveability.

Mutations do occur within the organism.(during the embryonic process.) However, that does not constitute anything , but a deformity from the parent.

Originally Posted by sincerly
Gnostic. the question which you are not answering with your illustrations is where and from what did those "matters" originate?
"Abiogenesis" is a supposed theory for the beginning of life forms. Where are your "reproducible" specimens. Life begets/comes from life of the same species(after their kind). . Other suppositions begets delusions/deceiveability.

I have come to realize...and it should have hit me sooner...that you are not interested in learning or understanding science. Clearly you are incapable of learning.

Worse still you are continuously misrepresenting science that you don't understand, which doesn't lead to honest debate.

Hi Gnostic, What do I know about the scientific desciplines? From your posts, I would say a vast amount more that you believe I do.


The Genesis creation is not a science book, pretending that it is, is only further making a fool of yourself. Genesis give no explanation to the physics or astronomy or earth science of the planet. And Genesis 2 give us no understanding of the human and animal bodies.

As Genesis, explains the origins of the things one observes about one---NO! It does NOT go into the intricacies of a detailed molecular/cellular structure of all matter observed. Those things have been elucidated for the greater part in these "last days"(as Daniel 12:4 states)---my life-time.

Does the Genesis explain how the eyes or ears function? Or the brain or heart? Does the bible explain how reproduction organs function?

Say God did it, is infantile answer that require no education in biology. And clearly you uneducated in the matter of biology. And I have no desire to teach you when you don't want to learn.

Gnostic, like you in your conclusions, many scientist had rather rely on their own human understanding that upon the Creator GOD who made it ALL and gave no "details". Mankind(and all else) is "fearfully and wonderfully made" just as the Scriptures declared---and scientist are now "seeing". You see it as a myth, but have no "scientific evidence/reproductive proof/evidence to support that which you claim is so. Scientist have shown/ and the evidence reveals that things do not "evolve in a to better fashion", but deteriate/decay/tend downward for the original.
Isn't that the premise of one of the dating methods? "All return to dust".

Again, where is the reproducible, spontaneous evidence of that "life" which was theorized---happened?

You have nothing to teach---As what you believe is the "myth". Until you/scientist come up with "created from nothing" life, or where all that "matter" came from---the Creator GOD of the Scriptures is the only "logical answer" as revealed in those scriptures.

ISo I won't bother further replying to you, until you can learn to distinguish between evolution and abiogenesis, or between evolution and atheism. If you can't make the distinctions then I am wasting my time with you.

Go bother someone else here.

Are you admitting that your "wasted time" is in proselyting?---believing as you believe/conclude?
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
Are you admitting that your "wasted time" is in proselyting?---believing as you believe/conclude?


This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.
IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution
We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sincerly
Hi outhouse, You may believe about me whatsoever you desire.
Those "evidence based facts" would have to be reproducible; and you have failed to reproduce the so called Big bang Theory, firstly, and then from that "living material"/matter (i.e.) plant and animal life.


I think you may have a comprehensive issue here.

Does it state the big bang is fact? No it does not. It does not say a word does it?

Why would you say something is true, when it is not? what do they call people who make statements that are not true??? I know there is a word for peole like that, what is it?

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

Outhouse, What is the "primordial origin" which is referred to above---the "big bang theory"----theorized, but not producible.
The article admits to: """ Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:"""
Let's look at that statement of "agreement". The theory both the "big bang" and "evolution" have not yet been proven, therefore, those scientist can't produce precise details of the evolutionary changes which they haven't produced to begin with and admit in the subtle statement.
And it is only their assumptions which place the "formation"/Creation of the world at billions of years.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Let's look at that statement of "agreement". The theory both the "big bang" and "evolution" have not yet been proven, therefore, those scientist can't produce precise details of the evolutionary changes which they haven't produced to begin with and admit in the subtle statement.
And it is only their assumptions which place the "formation"/Creation of the world at billions of years.

The article does not deal with the big bang does it?

The facts of evolution have been observed.

Creation is mythology at this point in time.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution


We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Maybe you would like to try and refute the evidence based facts, instead of trying to debate things out of context of the article posted.?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

Wisdom takes the obtained knowledge one acquires and correctly applies it. The Scriptures reveal Pro.(14-12), "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The "educated world" is in secular understanding of man's opinions---contrary to the teachings of the Scriptures.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Wisdom takes the obtained knowledge one acquires and correctly applies it. The Scriptures reveal Pro.(14-12), "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The "educated world" is in secular understanding of man's opinions---contrary to the teachings of the Scriptures.

Facts are facts, care to refute them?, or just throw out opinion based on faith with no evidence backing your position?

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution


We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Facts are facts, care to refute them?, or just throw out opinion based on faith with no evidence backing your position?

Outhouse, I have. Why don't you explain that which I asked you?---here again? What is the "primordial origin" which is referred to above---the "big bang theory"----theorized, but not producible.
The article admits to: """ Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:"""
Let's look at that statement of "agreement". The theory both the "big bang" and "evolution" have not yet been proven, therefore, those scientist can't produce precise details of the evolutionary changes which they haven't produced to begin with and admit in the subtle statement.
And it is only their assumptions which place the "formation"/Creation of the world at billions of years.--- all of which are suppositions and not facts.(by their own acknowledgement.)
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Outhouse, I have. Why don't you explain that which I asked you?---here again? What is the "primordial origin" which is referred to above---the "big bang theory"----theorized, but not producible.
The article admits to: """ Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:"""
Let's look at that statement of "agreement". The theory both the "big bang" and "evolution" have not yet been proven, therefore, those scientist can't produce precise details of the evolutionary changes which they haven't produced to begin with and admit in the subtle statement.
And it is only their assumptions which place the "formation"/Creation of the world at billions of years.--- all of which are suppositions and not facts.(by their own acknowledgement.)


The article does not deal with the big bang in any way shape or form. It does not ask for the primordial origin, nor give one.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
all of which are suppositions and not facts.(by their own acknowledgement.)

Read it, you may have a comprehensive issue because it clearly states

"We agree that the following evidence-based facts"

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution


We agree that the following evidence-based facts

about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Let's see....scriptural debates/biblical debates/genesis 2....
yep.....looks like history doesn't really belong here.

Didn't someone say he doesn't believe because there is no evidence?

What's the point?.....
 
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