Genesis 2

[outhouse]

What's the point?.....

You cannot debate Genesis in any aspect until you realize it was never supposed to be read literally.


When you realize the multiple different authors and compilers and redactors had put two major traditions together to keep the peace between a few different Jewish cultures, all while walking a tightrope keeping peace with their Babylonian oppressors. Will you even begin to understand the book of Genesis.

 

[Thief]

You cannot debate Genesis in any aspect until you realize it was never supposed to be read literally.


When you realize the multiple different authors and compilers and redactors had put two major traditions together to keep the peace between a few different Jewish cultures, all while walking a tightrope keeping peace with their Babylonian oppressors. Will you even begin to understand the book of Genesis.

There are some items that need the imagination to realize the intent.
Otherwise....it's all good to me.

 

[outhouse]

There are some items that need the imagination to realize the intent.
Otherwise....it's all good to me.

Your view while noted is not what the OP is about.

 

[Thief]

Your view while noted is not what the OP is about.

My view is as important ( and likely more important than yours)

And Chapter Two is NOT a retelling of Chapter One.

Chapter Two is a separate event....a specific alteration of Man in body and spirit.

 

[outhouse]

Chapter Two is a separate event....a specific alteration of Man in body and spirit.

Source?

And Chapter Two is NOT a retelling of Chapter One.

Agreed.

Two different traditions were sloppily compiled together to try and keep peace between the different cultures that found each important.

Genesis took a long time to collect and redacts, and compile again before more redactions before it was ever finished. It evolved for hundreds of years.

My view is as important ( and likely more important than yours)

My view is not important, nor would I imply it ever was important.

My view follows education and knowledge taught in every major university around the world as higher education.

I think you admit to just making stuff up that fits your personal needs.

 

[gnostic]

And Chapter Two is NOT a retelling of Chapter One.

Chapter Two is a separate event....a specific alteration of Man in body and spirit.

While I can agree with the 1st line, I don't think "spirit" has anything to do with the alteration between chapters 1 & 2.

The 2 different chapters just have different traditions to each other. While chapter 1 come before chapter 2 (J-source), chapter 2 (as well as 3) is actually older than the 1st chapter (P-source).

Like outhouse said, editors and redactors sewed the 2 different stories together.

 

[sincerly]

Let's see....scriptural debates/biblical debates/genesis 2....
yep.....looks like history doesn't really belong here.

Didn't someone say he doesn't believe because there is no evidence?

What's the point?.....

That would be the secular history of the world. With out the Bible being the confirmation of the excavation scientist's finds being in that location---even they would have a difficult time with their conclusions.

The Creator GOD is True and still acts in the affairs of mankind.

 

[outhouse]

That would be the secular history of the world. With out the Bible being the confirmation of the excavation scientist's finds being in that location---even they would have a difficult time with their conclusions.

The Creator GOD is True and still acts in the affairs of mankind.

A creator god is unknown scientifically and no affairs of mankind can be attributed with any degree of certainty outside mythology.


This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains

substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

 

[Thief]

A creator god is unknown scientifically and no affairs of mankind can be attributed with any degree of certainty outside mythology.


This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains

substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

Didn't Darwin believe in a God....Who set all things in motion (evolution) and then let it go?

Could have swore that's what the guy said when the documentary was played.

yep....just took a quick look ..Religious views of Darwin.....Wikipedia...
He studied with intent to the clergy.
As the years of work went by his belief in church going faith faded away.
But to say there is no God......
I didn't hear that from Darwin.

 

[Thief]

While I can agree with the 1st line, I don't think "spirit" has anything to do with the alteration between chapters 1 & 2.

The 2 different chapters just have different traditions to each other. While chapter 1 come before chapter 2 (J-source), chapter 2 (as well as 3) is actually older than the 1st chapter (P-source).

Like outhouse said, editors and redactors sewed the 2 different stories together.

Were you there when they did it?.....credible assertion on your part?

I say nay.
Day Six God created Man....male and female.
No names, no garden no law no restrictions....dominate all things...

Then God rests....and no more will be created....Day Seven.

THEN Chapter Two.
A story of selection, isolation, manipulation....and release.

All the earmarks of a science experiment....aimed at spirit.

 

[gnostic]

Were you there when they did it?.....credible assertion on your part?

no, I wasn't there.

but did any the author, scribe, editor, redactor there when it supposedly happened?

none of them were eyewitnesses.

 

[Thief]

no, I wasn't there.

but did any the author, scribe, editor, redactor there when it supposedly happened?

none of them were eyewitnesses.

No one but God, Adam and Eve ( and that Serpent) as witness to the garden event.

Still seems a good bit of info to me.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

No one but God, Adam and Eve ( and that Serpent) as witness to the garden event.

Still seems a good bit of info to me.

But the funny thing is... None of them actually wrote the Genesis account. So on what grounds are we supposed to accept it as reliable then?

 

[outhouse]

No one but God, Adam and Eve ( and that Serpent) as witness to the garden event.

Still seems a good bit of info to me.

Oh I understand.


People who didn't even know their own Canaanite heritage, knew everyone else's

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
That would be the secular history of the world. With out the Bible being the confirmation of the excavation scientist's finds being in that location---even they would have a difficult time with their conclusions.

The Creator GOD is True and still acts in the affairs of mankind.

A creator god is unknown scientifically and no affairs of mankind can be attributed with any degree of certainty outside mythology.

Hi outhouse,Of course, the "scientific" community which you acknowledge doesn't "know the Creator GOD"---they can not analyze GOD in a test-tube, etc.
Also, since they have rejected GOD, all that was witnesses and recorded concerning HIM was labeled "mythology"---they couldn't analyze/duplicate it.

Outhouse, that repeatedly posted article from your favorite "source" has recently revised it. It didn't stay "neutral" as its guidelines stress.
Notice the present wording:
Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.[2] Its primary adherents are those Christians and Jews[3] who, using a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis, believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days.[4][5] Young Earth creationists differ from other creationists in that they believe in a strict-literal interpretation of the Bible regarding the age of the Earth. This contrasts with Old Earth Creationists, who believe that the Book of Genesis may be interpreted metaphorically and who accept the scientifically determined age of Earth and the universe.[6]
Since the mid-20th century, young Earth creationists starting with Henry M. Morris have worked to develop the field of creation science in an effort to demonstrate that there is scientific evidence supporting their religiously founded belief in a supernatural creation. However, Young Earth creationism is contradicted by the scientific evidence derived from observations and experiments in multiple scientific disciplines. The scientific consensus is that the universe has existed for approximately 13.8 billion years and that the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing at least 2.5 billion years ago.[7][8]
Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the young Earth view that "God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" when Gallup asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings.[9] A 2011 Gallup survey reports that 30% of U.S. adults say they interpret the Bible literally.[10]

Check out [Talk] at the top of that article.

As you can see, that ""contradiction" by the "scientific consensus" is a figment of their own imagination.----in all of its ramifications.
Let's look at those "figures". Between 40% and 50% of the adult population of the United States, (Not just Christians), Say they hold the young earth view that "God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years".
Another survey poll reports that 30% of U.S. Adults say they interpret the Bible literally.
"Wikipedia", even at its best, is still ruled by polices allowed by bias.(In contraversial matters). One has to hold fast to truth(God's)--- not beliefs that are supposed by man.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by Thief
No one but God, Adam and Eve ( and that Serpent) as witness to the garden event.

Still seems a good bit of info to me.

Oh I understand.


People who didn't even know their own Canaanite heritage, knew everyone else's

Hi outhouse, you have left out a few steps to Abraham being in the land of "canaan". Shem's family was dispersed from Babel just as the others were.
Ham was the father of Canaan. Terah, from the line of Shem, was Abraham's father.

 

[Thief]

But the funny thing is... None of them actually wrote the Genesis account. So on what grounds are we supposed to accept it as reliable then?

Finally .....someone hit upon it.

We can easily say...'something' happened when Man left the rest of the animal world.
We point our attentions in a variety of ways.
Some say ...'science!'....and the garden event looks like an experiment.
Some say ...'God!'....and who else could it have been?

Either way.. I see no excuse to say...'nay!'.

 

[outhouse]

Originally Posted by sincerly
As you can see, that ""contradiction" by the "scientific consensus" is a figment of their own imagination.

FACT's are below. Nothing at all indicates what you posit to be true an any way.


This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains

substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:
•In a universe that has evolved towards its present configuration for some 11 to 15 billion years, our Earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago.
•Since its formation, the Earth – its geology and its environments – has changed under the effect of numerous physical and chemical forces and continues to do so.
•Life appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago. The evolution, soon after, of photosynthetic organisms enabled, from at least 2 billion years ago, the slow transformation of the atmosphere to one containing substantial quantities of oxygen. In addition to the release of the oxygen that we breathe, the process of photosynthesis is the ultimate source of fixed energy and food upon which human life on the planet depends.
•Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, you have left out a few steps to Abraham being in the land of "canaan". Shem's family was dispersed from Babel just as the others were.
Ham was the father of Canaan. Terah, from the line of Shem, was Abraham's father.

So far that is all mythology with no historical substance.

And it does not change the Canaanite heritage of Israelites.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
As you can see, that ""contradiction" by the "scientific consensus" is a figment of their own imagination.

FACT's are below. Nothing at all indicates what you posit to be true an any way.

This is viewed a truth for most of the educated world, and contains substantiated facts to back their position.

IAP - IAP Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

We agree that the following evidence-based facts
about the origins and evolution of the Earth and of life on this planet have been established by numerous observations and independently derived experimental results from a multitude of scientific disciplines. Even if there are still many open questions about the precise details of evolutionary change, scientific evidence has never contradicted these results:

Outhouse, one cannot claim "evidenced-based facts" when there are ACKNOWLEDGED "many open questions".

The "myth" is in believing that all one readily "sees" came from that which "scientist acknowledge doesn't happen spontaneously."---- the production of "matter" from nothing.
To insist that there was matter, requires a cause for it to be present. The "scientific theories/reasons given" is your "strawman"---it has no reality.
The Scriptures are honest in their presentation---GOD "spake and it stood fast."