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Genesis,where did the other Guys come from

reve

Member
no one knows where eden is IF it is even a real place or all myth

so it could be, it could be anywhere

I always thought the forbidden fruit might have been sexual in nature, it is a myth so who knows what they really ment. you could debate meaning for another thousand years and never come close top what they really ment.

Hi: The forbidden fruit is sexual. The angels were told not to eat the bananas by their Lord of Spirits. Like 'Do not go to earth and have sex with all those beautiful women or I will lock you up there with them for good.' It didn't take long. That is how Adam was made by one of the chief angels.And of course that is how the prophecied Son of Adam/man came to exist. A self fulfilling prophecy over 6000 years. That is what the Apocalypse of weeks suggests in the Book of Enoch with its prophecies covering all that time and a bit more to come still - each week is 1000 years. The angels rebellion is there and so on. The angels soon wanted to go back but were stopped and stuck here. And we are all told to avoid the forbidden fruit too. So what do we all do? It is the testing of Job almost, a trap with an inviting bait. Eventually someone succeeds. Odysseus has his crew tie him up as they row past the sirens with wax in their ears, but that didnt count. Catholic yogis are supposed to be celibate to overcome the temptation which doesn't count. If you are not tested by this you cannot 'overcome' either. Probably nonsense would you say. They will only test you on your weakness. Job loved his family and his reputation as a Judge so lost it all, daughters captured and raped. He does not appear to waver and gets it all back. But he didn't overcome either. I cannot recall why.

At the same time the angels are having to look at their Lord Of Spuirits with his best mate who is a man. They are 'astonied' which I would say means hard hearted,. When they arrive here all have to sign the oath that they will do this and they go their ways and breed. Only around half the locals were happy to see them but they took over everywhere very fast spreading out to Europe, China and even South America from Mount Hermon.They brought the wheel of course and have an obsession with horses (Horus the falcon god of war is one of them).
 

AllanV

Active Member
I think there is some misinformation as to what is written in scriptures. This has been a bit of a study for me mainly because the Christian religion claims so much.

An over view without being too specific or getting caught up in expecting exact references is needed. Language has changed.

I was listening to one of the American astronauts and he pointed out that the day by day genesis creation story was almost word for word the description of the progressing periods of the Big Bang theory.

A 60 minutes report showed how there were genetic indications that an African Ape had moved north into the middle eastern area and mated with man.

The scriptures read that
God said "let the earth bring forth the living creature each after its own kind."

If a dictionary is used to open up the meaning this could be describing what science has observed as evolution.
God is letting the earth bring into existence and develop species.
Ape man may have been already existing before Adam a Son of God was installed in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden is said to have been in the Middle East.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Man is actually an ape and the sons of God interbred with them. This confirmed the species we now see as human. This species has God like qualities in the power of the will and belief.
The scriptures say that everything exists by Gods will.
The human will powers, and manifests own life and even personality. The problem is that good and evil is manifested as a balance in an experiential way. Things happen either purposely or inadvertently and come from the deeper consciousness. This all becomes life experience and is the person.
This power out of own personal belief separates man from God. Man is limited by his biological preference.
 

Deborah Judge

New Member
I am a Christian, but I am also gifted with the God-given filter of common sense. Yes that means that the two are not mutually exclusive. Religion is totally a man-made thing to give people guide lines, so that the damage that might be done, can be minimized. The fact is, sadly religion has failed in it's more important purpose of helping us find our purpose in this life, which simply is being a friend of God. God just wants what all of us want. We were made in His image, so it really is a no-brainer figuring him out. Why do we have a need to speak and be heard? Why do we need connection with other people to feel complete? Why do we get angry, sad, lonely, and violent? It's so simple, it makes me crazy when people over-complicate God. He is just one of us. We have our human nature because it mirror's our creator's nature.
The bible is, and has always been a tool of religion, to get the message out. Granted, a lot of what is in it comes from a sort of "telephone" telling that may or may not be accurate or is primitive at best. The New Testament is riddled with the imperfect and all-too-human forms of propaganda that was very prevalent back then, because everyone was selling their version of Jesus to a specific market to expand the faith. And of course there was the Catholic church who has cherry picked and edited the good book to fit what they wanted to get across to the masses. So really, is the bible a viable source to find God? I say yes, but only because I stand on the belief that God gives us common sense to filter out the bull for a reason. And that reason is because he wants us to see Him as a multifaceted person who does have weaknesses, He created us out of a NEED for companionship. All powerful, omnipresent, but lonely and in need of someone else to hang out with. Someone who has choices and possibly differing views. Us. Who wants friends who are there because they have to be? Or who are only agreeing with you because they are scared not to? Not me, and not God. God wants people who want to be friends because they like Him for who He is, not what He can do for them, or any other reason.
 

AllanV

Active Member
I am a Christian, but I am also gifted with the God-given filter of common sense. Yes that means that the two are not mutually exclusive. Religion is totally a man-made thing to give people guide lines, so that the damage that might be done, can be minimized. The fact is, sadly religion has failed in it's more important purpose of helping us find our purpose in this life, which simply is being a friend of God. God just wants what all of us want. We were made in His image, so it really is a no-brainer figuring him out. Why do we have a need to speak and be heard?[ end quote]


To fathom and understand the Bible intellectually a person would need to be a genius.

God wants transformed perfect individuals and a Church without spot or blemish. What did Jesus die for?
I do not mind writing on this forum but it will end because I am not that comfortable doing it.
The truth is in the working of the gifts.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
lets bring this back into reality shall we.

I think there is some misinformation as to what is written in scriptures

you think! ???

Ape man may have been already existing before Adam a Son of God was installed in the Garden of Eden

ape man,,,,, you really need to crack open a few real history or biology books. You have a kindergarden level of scientific knowledge.

man evolved and many of the later "homo" species before us looked very close to modern man "homo sapiens"

The Garden of Eden is said to have been in the Middle East.

it is unknown if such a place exist out of the genesis myth


Man is actually an ape and the sons of God interbred with them

No! this is blatantly false. neanderthal did breed with homo sapiens but none of them were ever sons of god.

This confirmed the species we now see as human

blantantly false, embarrassing actually

The scriptures say that everything exists by Gods will.

the scripture is wrong
 

AllanV

Active Member
lets bring this back into reality shall we.
you think! ???
ape man,,,,, you really need to crack open a few real history or biology books. You have a kindergarden level of scientific knowledge.

man evolved and many of the later "homo" species before us looked very close to modern man "homo sapiens"
it is unknown if such a place exist out of the genesis myth


No! this is blatantly false. neanderthal did breed with homo sapiens but none of them were ever sons of god.

blantantly false, embarrassing actually

the scripture is wrong

Has the missing link been found yet, I can't remember.

All mankind are Gods now in their own abilities but their power is from their own self. This gives a person the ability to manifest their own separate life the way they want except another persons power may interfere.
It is also the power behind a pointed remark or something said to annoy or make feel good. This is what the sons of God became. It leads into conflict.

This is a big subject but most of it cannot be proved except what is in the present.
I guess this is what Santa is all about.

There is some research on connected response in the study of the brain. A person watching another being subjected to pain has the same brain patterns.
Are there any more connected responses that are more subtle. Could a person connect with the emotions of another remotely?

I would suggest yes. Any person that goes through the grief of losing a loved one will say how the breaking of such a strong bond is almost too difficult to bare. It is like having a part cut off but it is hard to explain where from.

This where the research will show the most. Time will tell.
 

AllanV

Active Member
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:





by the way this is not a philosophical thread. This is about asking specific questions in a debate thread

You do not debate with any depth.

Genesis where did the other guys come from. What does it say in Genesis?

I was listening to one of the American astronauts and he pointed out that the day by day genesis creation story was almost word for word the description of the progressing periods of the Big Bang theory.

A 60 minutes report showed how there were genetic indications that an African Ape had moved north into the middle eastern area and mated with man.

The scriptures read that
God said "let the earth bring forth the living creature each after its own kind."

If a dictionary is used to open up the meaning this could be describing what science has observed as evolution.
God is letting the earth bring into existence and develop species.
Ape man may have been already existing before Adam a Son of God was installed in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden is said to have been in the Middle East.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
 

cmh0114

New Member
You do not debate with any depth.

I was listening to one of the American astronauts and he pointed out that the day by day genesis creation story was almost word for word the description of the progressing periods of the Big Bang theory.

A 60 minutes report showed how there were genetic indications that an African Ape had moved north into the middle eastern area and mated with man.

He debates with all the depth necessary for a fairly intelligent human being to understand. There is no missing link in the trace of humanity's evolution. If you can show me a missing link, I'll back down on that position, but I honestly don't think you can.

I don't know which American astronaut you were listening to, but I highly doubt he said that. The theories diverge after "God created the world." I can see how it could vaguely be considered similar, but the order of evolution would be completely wrong in the Bible.

First off, 60 Minutes is not a good choice of citations. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't heard anything good about their credibility. Secondly, what "genetic indicators"? We share roughly 97% of our DNA with chimps, of course some of our genes will be similar. We're similar because we descended from the same ancestor, not because humans frequently mated with chimps.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
You do not debate with any depth.

Genesis where did the other guys come from. What does it say in Genesis?

I was listening to one of the American astronauts and he pointed out that the day by day genesis creation story was almost word for word the description of the progressing periods of the Big Bang theory.

A 60 minutes report showed how there were genetic indications that an African Ape had moved north into the middle eastern area and mated with man.

This may interest you BBC News - Ancient humans, dubbed 'Denisovans', interbred with us

The scriptures read that
God said "let the earth bring forth the living creature each after its own kind."

If a dictionary is used to open up the meaning this could be describing what science has observed as evolution.
God is letting the earth bring into existence and develop species.
Ape man may have been already existing before Adam a Son of God was installed in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden is said to have been in the Middle East.

Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

I would be surprised if early Human women could be described as fair,anyway what this implies is Adam as son of God mated with early Human women,thats a lot of mating though so Adam must have been busy,this of course would be impossible for Adam of the Qur'an because he was 90 feet tall.
 

AllanV

Active Member
I would be surprised if early Human women could be described as fair,anyway what this implies is Adam as son of God mated with early Human women,thats a lot of mating though so Adam must have been busy,this of course would be impossible for Adam of the Qur'an because he was 90 feet tall.

Yes, and they may have been all hairy with messed up features. Sounds like someone I know.

Adam may not have taken a wife from them although in those times men had multiple, evidently.

There were Giants in those days and Noah was said to be extra large but then my size is large so what would that make him. But then think we may be giants by those standards and everyone else was small.

Who knows.

I have been feeding the sparrows this summer and their numbers have increased from about 10 to 50-70. Some of the mums had 3 young. That could be done twice in one season.

Human numbers could increase very quickly but of course the flood occurred because no one was fit to live except Noah and his family.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
Adam may not have taken a wife

adam is a myth

There were Giants in those days

giants are a myth

Noah was said to be extra large

also a myth

Who knows.

WE DO, we know genesis is a fable of creation. Its fiction bud.

all ancient religions had a creation story/myth genesis comes from sumerian culture and egyptian. The sumerian version used a man called adamu who was created from dirt, the ancient hebrews possibly used thi sexact myth to create their own myth

the flood occurred


there was never a global flood, it too is a myth


please pull back into reality if you want to debate
 

AllanV

Active Member
adam is a myth

giants are a myth

also a myth

WE DO, we know genesis is a fable of creation. Its fiction bud.

all ancient religions had a creation story/myth genesis comes from sumerian culture and egyptian. The sumerian version used a man called adamu who was created from dirt, the ancient hebrews possibly used thi sexact myth to create their own myth

there was never a global flood, it too is a myth

please pull back into reality if you want to debate

The scriptures indicate that every race would have the same story because they all come from the same place. Their beginnings are all connected. The people spread out to fill the whole world. Some tribes found favor with God and others didn't. That is the story.

The debate is "Genesis where did the other guys come from" I am telling you from Genesis what it says in this book. You haven't debated anything yet.
If you think Genesis says something else let me hear it. You have been offering opinions only.

Keep to the thread.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The scriptures indicate that every race would have the same story because they all come from the same place. Their beginnings are all connected. The people spread out to fill the whole world. Some tribes found favor with God and others didn't. That is the story.

The debate is "Genesis where did the other guys come from" I am telling you from Genesis what it says in this book. You haven't debated anything yet.
If you think Genesis says something else let me hear it. You have been offering opinions only.

Keep to the thread.

genesis is not real history, you need to learn this.

for some reason your being very ignorant.

Homo sapiens have been on the planet for 200,000 years and everything you wrote does not match REAL world history or science.

"Where they came from" is imagination and fiction originating from the sumerian myths long before ancient hebrews.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
“Adamu” is the name in Sumerian mythology for the first man, created by “Enki”, the creator god and inventor of civilization. Adam is Hebrew for “man”, and adamah is a Hebrew word signifying dust and earth, and in Aramaic signifying blood. Havva — Hebrew for “Eve” — in Hebrew signifies life.
In the Sumerian myth, magical food is the source of immortality, not the source of its downfall, and Adamu is tricked to not eat it (the gods tell him it is poisonous), and thereby remains mortal. The Hebrew biblical account also describes such a life-giving magical food — the food of the “tree of life”, distinct from the forbidden “tree of knowledge of good and evil” — and it is chiefly to deprive them of the immortality bestowed by the fruit of the tree of life, that God exiles Adam and Eve from the garden. The tale of Cain and Abel (Genesis 4:1-16) parallels tales in Sumerian mythology of rivalries between farmer and herder gods.
Genesis 11:26-31 and 17:5-8 teach that Abraham himself, vaunted father of nations, is a native of the Sumerian city Ur (southeast Iraq, near the ancient mouths of the Tigris and Euphrates) under Chaldean suzerainty, growing up there some time in the second millenium BCE, and departing for Canaan (Israel and environs). Abraham's father Terah adhered to the Sumerian mythology, and was a maker and seller of idols, but Abraham rejected polytheism and his father's idols, and managed a remarkable escape from the Chaldean king's sentence of death for his heresy. Joshua 24:2 records the break: “And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.” In any case, the similarity of the Torah's cosmogony to the Sumerian epic may be evidence that the biblical tales of Abraham are at least partially historical.
Monotheism was first consolidated in the nation of Judah by King Josiah (reigned ca. 641-609 BCE). But soon thereafter, the Chaldeans sacked Jerusalem and forced the Hebrews into exile in Babylon (597-538 BCE), under king Nebuchadrezzar II (605-562 BCE) and his successors. This captivity culminated in the syncretion of proto-Judaism with the Zoroastrianism of their Persian liberator, and the commitment of the Torah to writing. Zoroastrianism, founded ca. 750 BCE, is incidentally but one representative of the descendents of a common prehistoric Indo-European religion; among the other representative mythologies are Hindu, Norse, Greek, and Roman. Zoroastrianism contributes to the Eden myth the very word “paradise”, deriving from the Avestan (Old Persian) pairidaēza. This was the term used in Zoroastrian Persia to refer to the king's enclosed garden parks. The Hebrew in Genesis 2:8 for “garden of Eden” is gan-be'Eden — gan signifies not just a garden, but a walled garden, and Eden is not just a proper name, but a Hebrew term for “delight”. The garden motif even draws direct inspiration from Nebuchadrezzar II, who (according to legend) built “hanging gardens” in Babylon to please his homesick wife Amyitis, daughter of Median king Cyaxares (625-585 BCE). The Medes commanded a vast and verdant pre-Persian, partly Zoroastrian empire east of Chaldea, and the marriage cemented an alliance of the two empires. In fact the Old Persian pairidaēza is believed to have its root in the Mede language, which was in any case quite similar to Old Persian and the other Indo-Iranian languages of the region.
It seems inescapable that, to arrive at the creation mythology articulated by the postexilic authors of Genesis, the Hebrews conflated their ancestral Sumerian cosmogony and cultural inheritance, tales of the Zoroastrian king's idyllic garden in the east, and the Zoroastrian doctrine that the world created by Ahura Mazda was a paradise, spoiled by the evil Ahriman, but to be restored to its paradisiacal condition in the eschaton, as prophesied by Zoroaster. Before this syncretion, neither Satan nor the divine messiah (nor a great many other key doctrines) existed in the Judaic canon — all supernatural acts and promises were attributed directly to the covenant god Yahweh (or, before Josiah's monotheistic edicts, to any number of gods in a heterodox pantheon).
Cyrus.jpg
Cyrus the GreatThe Hebrews were surely inclined to sympathy with the Zoroastrian worldview, because it was the Zoroastrian king Cyrus the Great (reigned ca. 546 to 529 BCE), imperial uniter of the Medes and Persians, who delivered them from their Chaldean captivity, and instigated construction of the second Temple in Jerusalem. Isaiah 44:28-45:1 records a sympathy so great it smacks of open kinship: “That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him”. In 538 BCE, Cyrus commissioned the Judaic prince Sheshbazzar to lead the return to Jerusalem, and carry back the sacred vessels confiscated by the Chaldean empire at the start of the exile. As told in the first chapter of the Book of Ezra, the universal god of the Israelites and the universal god of Cyrus are the same god: “Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD [“Yahweh”] God [“Elohim”] of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.” Under the patronage of the ardently Zoroastrian king Darius (reigned 521 to 485 BCE), Zorobabel (also transliterated Zerubbabel, as in the Book of Haggai) in ca. 520 BCE led another company of Babylonian Hebrews back to Jerusalem, assumed governorship of the city under royal dispensation, and completed the second Temple. Zorobabel is mentioned in Matthew 1:12-13 as a 29[SIZE=-1]th[/SIZE] generation lineal descendent of Abraham, and a tenth generation lineal ancestor of Joseph (husband of Mary, mother of Jesus of Nazareth), though this account is immediately suspect because it requires fifty year generations between Zorobabel and Joseph. In any case, in the immediate postexilic period, there is no clear boundary, either political or religious, between the Zoroastrian establishment and the tribes of Israel. It was during this period that the Torah was committed to writing. Moreover, the “wise men from the east” of Matthew 2:1, the pilgrims come to Israel to pay homage to the infant Jesus, are in fact emissaries of the Zoroastrian court of Persia (magi), come to honor the child they believe is the Zoroastrian messiah. Regardless of the historicity, this account continues the biblical pattern that considers messianic Judaism and Zoroastrianism to be the same religion. While it might be coincidental, the Star of David, now the centerpiece of the national flag of Israel, was an important symbol in Zoroastrian astrology.
At its mythological root paradise was almost certainly believed to be in the celestial heavens, coming to prehistoric earth only through narrative modification. The words for heaven and for paradise are the same in a great many euroasiatic languages, including the Indo-European languages, Hebrew, and Korean.
As Islamic scholars understand it, the Qur'an places Eden itself in heaven, so that it can only be reached through death (particularly, by martyrdom). Correspondingly, Islamic doctrine holds that the forbidden fruit of Eden was in fact ineffectual, and it was the devil who tempted a mortal Adam to eat it, telling him falsely that it would give him immortality, whereas his betrayal of god simply led god to eject him from paradise.
Thus there are three principal permutations of the myth. In the first, the Sumerian version, a mortal Adam is in an earthly Eden, and a life-giving fruit is not eaten, due to divine trickery. In the Judeo-Christian version, an immortal Adam is in an earthly Eden with two fruit trees, one giving the immortal life of a god, the other a forbidden one giving the vision of a god, eaten at the instigation of a diabolical serpent (divine trickery). In the Islamic version, a mortal Adam is in an ethereal Eden, and a false fruit is eaten at the instigation of the devil. The confusion of earthly and heavenly paradise recurs within and between the extant religious canons (including the Indic canons), facilitating acceptance of the Edenic movement's promise of earthly paradise. For example, in America, some radicalized Muslims are explicit Edenists (this is the Taliyah movement, broached below in the Keeping Eden Green chapter). Though for utopians frank introspection and circumspection is generally alien, they stand to learn a great deal about their movement from an appreciation that in most of the world, for most of history, paradise has been associated with death, and in particular, with the end of life.
progress.gif
 

AllanV

Active Member
genesis is not real history, you need to learn this.

for some reason your being very ignorant.

Homo sapiens have been on the planet for 200,000 years and everything you wrote does not match REAL world history or science.

"Where they came from" is imagination and fiction originating from the sumerian myths long before ancient hebrews.

I am not actually worried if it is real history or not I am just relating what it says.

Some people say that the modern use of history we read is falsified to some extent. I have read a lot over the years and there are many view points.
My main interest is technology. The science of aging is interesting. Also the brain, mind, and human interaction.

But the most important for mankind is the potential to be transformed and renewed in the mind so that we can survive as a species. A kind of next step in evolution.

Perhaps the Bible is about what science says now, man can be immortal.

I have looked into this myself and this is exactly what it is about. The History is like a filler and distraction to something more important.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Perhaps the Bible is about what science says now, man can be immortal.

get back to reality

The History is like a filler and distraction to something more important.

again, please get back to reality


your knocking real education for some personal fantasy
 
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