Genesis,where did the other Guys come from

[outhouse]

Your argument is that all cultures believe in some form of a spirit, like the great spirit(native american), god is a spirit and the holy spirit(judaism,christian,islam), the tao is a spirit(chinese) etc. So because most cultures have had similar experiences with a spirit or god that makes all of them false, are you serious?

im asking the questions not you

if you cannot answer due to lack of education thats fine

 

[iholdit]

im asking the questions not you

if you cannot answer due to lack of education thats fine

Lmao!!! That is seriously your only argument. You are projecting. Like i already said, if you feel bad about your lack of education, then go back to school.

It is getting pathetic that instead of answering my questions, you use the "lack of education" line, over and over again.

Lmao!!! Repeating the same posts and the same sentences, is a sign you might be a spambot.

 

[reve]

Although we are all here now in 2011 we are living very different lives, in vastly different places, circumstances and culture. My life has nothing in common with a fisherman in Cuba or an Eskimo or a miner in China. Some of us have long leisurely lives, others live in terror. So would it not be possible to consider that each have their own worlds, spirits and dreams and gods. We are all similar in some ways. They are the local Gods. When we get to the One God, a united force, HE?She?it must include all of them. Our universe includes all the galaxies does it not, past present and future. Genesis is a mixture. It starts with the one god creating a universe, but moves to a local and more relevant level with Adam. Not the first men and women created, but the first ones who are relevant to the readers (ie Middle Eastern persons with that particular culture). We all follow our teams and support by rubbishing all the others, but it is only a game. We must carefully note what name or title is given to each God mentioned in Genesis. El is certainly not Jehovah anymore than Saturn (El's Greek equivalent) is his son Jove - or Jupiter, Ptah, Diouspater Father of the Gods (not all of them though eg Saturn is his father ands Uranaus is his grandfather). With Jove you see Jehovah, Communion wine and power. El is the castrated god, who castrated his father and his symbol is the sickle which did it, the crescent moon. Pan (Greek for 'all') may also be Allah, he is the composite Nature God who is all of them, now considered the Christian Devil with his hooves etc. So the God who does not accept the sacrifice of Cain is just a local god, probably Jove the one who has taken over control here. Uranus is the universal creator god whose name means the heavens. Completely ignored now of course but still out there. Man has fallen a long way but notice how he fights for his own little religion. If you are a follower of the one god, the creator then you would rise above this pettiness. Children squabble in the other room (outside Eden/Ouranos).

 

[England my lionheart]

Although we are all here now in 2011 we are living very different lives, in vastly different places, circumstances and culture. My life has nothing in common with a fisherman in Cuba or an Eskimo or a miner in China. Some of us have long leisurely lives, others live in terror. So would it not be possible to consider that each have their own worlds, spirits and dreams and gods. We are all similar in some ways. They are the local Gods. When we get to the One God, a united force, HE?She?it must include all of them. Our universe includes all the galaxies does it not, past present and future. Genesis is a mixture. It starts with the one god creating a universe, but moves to a local and more relevant level with Adam. Not the first men and women created, but the first ones who are relevant to the readers (ie Middle Eastern persons with that particular culture). We all follow our teams and support by rubbishing all the others, but it is only a game. We must carefully note what name or title is given to each God mentioned in Genesis. El is certainly not Jehovah anymore than Saturn (El's Greek equivalent) is his son Jove - or Jupiter, Ptah, Diouspater Father of the Gods (not all of them though eg Saturn is his father ands Uranaus is his grandfather). With Jove you see Jehovah, Communion wine and power. El is the castrated god, who castrated his father and his symbol is the sickle which did it, the crescent moon. Pan (Greek for 'all') may also be Allah, he is the composite Nature God who is all of them, now considered the Christian Devil with his hooves etc. So the God who does not accept the sacrifice of Cain is just a local god, probably Jove the one who has taken over control here. Uranus is the universal creator god whose name means the heavens. Completely ignored now of course but still out there. Man has fallen a long way but notice how he fights for his own little religion. If you are a follower of the one god, the creator then you would rise above this pettiness. Children squabble in the other room (outside Eden/Ouranos).

Are we then to accept everything we read and hear,without a question you are unlikely to get an answer,ok the answer may be wrong but it may help in comming to a conclusion

 

[reve]

Local legends usually have a basis in fact but after centuries of chinese whispers that fish tends to get bigger and the fisherman more heroic. There probably was a historic Adam and I think his grave is in Lebanon and will one day be found but it predates writing so we wont know for sure. we know there was a hsitorical Mohammed but no certainty over a Jesus. Definitely a Siddharta Buddha but Zoroastra may be a myth. What we can deduce with certainty is that all these people were obsessed with religion. this is how you start one.

I can have as many wives as i want but may require you to be celibate
I have a unique line to god or his angel you have not
If you say you have your tongue must be torn out
If you say I have not you must be burned
If you dont do what I say you must be punished
Only I can get you into heaven
I will need your money, it is bad for you to have it and not give it all to me
I dont die, you do
After I die if you say I did you must be tortured and burned
All other prophets were either praising me or are evil
No new prophets allowed I am the last one


That people subscribe is amazing. it is covered by this generic rule:

If you dont subscribe your whole family must be killed before your eyes while you still have them.


How many does your religion score?,

That's about it.

 

[outhouse]

Local legends usually have a basis in fact but after centuries of chinese whispers that fish tends to get bigger and the fisherman more heroic. There probably was a historic Adam and I think his grave is in Lebanon and will one day be found but it predates writing so we wont know for sure. we know there was a hsitorical Mohammed but no certainty over a Jesus. Definitely a Siddharta Buddha but Zoroastra may be a myth. What we can deduce with certainty is that all these people were obsessed with religion. this is how you start one.

you have no basis at all to say where adam is. this is your unfounded opinion only

at this point and time adam is a mythical charactor. nothing more.

 

[outhouse]

We are all similar in some ways. They are the local Gods. When we get to the One God, a united force, HE?She?it must include all of them

must it include all of them?

Genesis is a mixture.

genesis is a proven fable that is a patchwork of many unknown authors written after hundreds of years of oral tradition, and hundreds of years of writings compiled together.

So would it not be possible to consider that each have their own worlds, spirits and dreams and gods.

I like the rest of your take and it would be fine if the religious understood the facts the same way.

problemn is i feel its imagination and all the same religions STILL imagine a religion different from his own bothers and sisters. to me its primitive and barabaric

 

[reve]

I think every nation has its founding chief. Some are getting rooted out now in the Middle East. So there prob was an 'Adam' listening to an 'angel'. Mohammed saw but heard mostly Gabriel. Israel are led by Asriel, possibly Mikel. These are local chaps. Whether they existed or not is the real question rather than the Patriarchs who are recorded and probably did. The old king lists in Egypt are inaccurate but are nearly right except for dates. If we look under the massive stone at Baa;bek we may find some old remains of that first long lived chief who brought his tribe from 'eden' , Abraham comes from Ur. Jacob comes from IOsrael and goes to Egypt. Moses and Joshua come back. captives in babylon, Daniel? brings back. Now they are coming from Russia. It is a constant tribal movement for sure so Adam fits in there.

 

[outhouse]

we may find some old remains of that first long lived chief who brought his tribe from 'eden'

you need to prove adam is not a myth before you can use a word like "may"

eden is mythical at this point, and the story is a complete fable.

It is a constant tribal movement for sure so Adam fits in there.

adam quite possibly comes from the sumerian myth "adamu" again a mythical charactor.

your reaching beyond reality.

 

[outhouse]

by the way ignoring my post does not make the real information and reality "go away"

 

[England my lionheart]

It seems pretty obvious to me that there are many myths in the Bible the sources of these are bits and pieces of other cultures,Adam and Eve,Moses and the Exodus echoes the story of Sargon of Sumeria,it is interesting that the Qur'an takes up on the Adam and Eve story but have made it even more unbelievable having Adam at 90 feet in height,mythology is like that though,incredulous.

 

[reve]

How interesting Eml!!! I posted somewhere recently about the giant people who lived near Mount Hermon Lebanon/Israel/Syria border where the sweet waters of the Jordan river come from and where the 200 fallen angels are said to have arrived in disgrace according to the Boook of Enoch with no way back. Now all of this is said to derive from their anger with the Lord of Spirits over his creation of 'Adam'. According to Enoch (in the fable) the LOS has this good friend and they are inseparable but he is a human - his name is Binadham - 'son of man'. So the angels rebelled as they would not serve a man and came here and took wives, making an oath together to do this on Mount Hermon. They are still bound by it but need not be as they have done it and we have this curious culture to show for it with pianos, drugs and bombs. This is where the Genesis story of the Sons of God derives. At war with man ever since but clever enough to offer women make up, jewelery and enchantments according to Enoch and 'special' children. Some of them very big apparently (Genesis and other sources). I lost my old copy of the Secrets of Enoch (if anyone 'picked it up ' in 1976 please return it no hard feelings) - it had a picture in it of the Mausoleum of Adam in Lebanon. Years later I found that was the temple in Baalbek where these massive stones (many 60, 90 tions, 24 x 300 tons, 3 x 800 tons and one unused in the quarry over 1000 tons) that even now defy belief that they could be transported at all were lifted up 50 feet, more than most cranes can manage. What is underneath this (a vast pavement) - no one knows. The Romans put a Temple of Jove on top. But of course it is said that it was put there by giants. Many cultures have gaint fables and tales. The bones will not be found - that is what cremation is all about. Removing the evidence sometimes millenia later. Gog and Magog are good examples of English giants mentioned in Genesis. Buried near Cambridge in a vast circle, like the temple near Mount Hermon, and ancient statues of them 15 feet high at the City of London Guildhall I think, destroyed by Hitler's bombs. So now I think that is how Adam survived - he is the original Gulliver buried at Baalbek (near Hermon). What a revelation that would be. Baal means Lord but he seems not to get on with Jehovah in the Bible . The truth is out there. Anyway there are fairly good indication the 'other guys' came from Sirius - the name Syria for one and the alignments on Gilgal Rephaim (wheel of) Hermon's hilltop neighbour(Golan Heights) possibly 'most ancient of all the world's temples after Malta 4000BC', practically undiscovered, points with one tunnel at Sirius and the other at the Summer Solstice sunrise as it would have been 3rd millenium BC (when the angels fell around 3500BC). African legend also knows more than it is possible to know without a radio telescope about Sirius and the Great Pyramid has a shaft pointing at it, most sacred god to the Egyptians (named Sothis). They operated a 1460 calendar based on it rising at the same time as the sun on the same calendar day as they only had 365 days in the year officially and it made Christmas come up at the wrong time almost all olf that time. Check out Gilgal Rephaim - the place has hundreds of dolmens too. Someone has carried up 42000 heavy basalt rocks to build that ring temple wall. I too am incredulous but at what is there before my eyes, factual evidence. This is the land of giants, the Rephaim or Nephilim that Moses euthanased on his way back home after 400 years sojourning in Egypt, all the children thrown in fires. It was some sort of religous difference I believe which can probably be traced to this war angels against men. The angels all assumed thrones and dynasties and own everything. Humans are in fact more intelligent because they have emotions but are slaves. That is all the conspiracy stuff attached to it now - illuminati etc. I agree Eml complete myth, unbelievable and nonsensical but still the stuff that we are made of.

 

[reve]

just thinking - could Eden be Malta? Splendid isolation until the temptation to eat this forbidden fruit became too much. You can imagine a pair of monkeys put in some laboratory cage with oranges, apples and bananas. Told to name them but dont eat the bananas. Time them till they do, send them to the mainland and try another experiment like changing their DNA to shorthen their lives, then trying out medical antidotes on them, make them ill (Enoch says Raphael is set over plagues these days) make them better. I bet it is fascinating and rewarding work but I would be too emotive probably. You know want to take the poor things home.

 

[England my lionheart]

How interesting Eml!!! I posted somewhere recently about the giant people who lived near Mount Hermon Lebanon/Israel/Syria border where the sweet waters of the Jordan river come from and where the 200 fallen angels are said to have arrived in disgrace according to the Boook of Enoch with no way back. Now all of this is said to derive from their anger with the Lord of Spirits over his creation of 'Adam'. According to Enoch (in the fable) the LOS has this good friend and they are inseparable but he is a human - his name is Binadham - 'son of man'. So the angels rebelled as they would not serve a man and came here and took wives, making an oath together to do this on Mount Hermon. They are still bound by it but need not be as they have done it and we have this curious culture to show for it with pianos, drugs and bombs. This is where the Genesis story of the Sons of God derives. At war with man ever since but clever enough to offer women make up, jewelery and enchantments according to Enoch and 'special' children. Some of them very big apparently (Genesis and other sources). I lost my old copy of the Secrets of Enoch (if anyone 'picked it up ' in 1976 please return it no hard feelings) - it had a picture in it of the Mausoleum of Adam in Lebanon. Years later I found that was the temple in Baalbek where these massive stones (many 60, 90 tions, 24 x 300 tons, 3 x 800 tons and one unused in the quarry over 1000 tons) that even now defy belief that they could be transported at all were lifted up 50 feet, more than most cranes can manage. What is underneath this (a vast pavement) - no one knows. The Romans put a Temple of Jove on top. But of course it is said that it was put there by giants. Many cultures have gaint fables and tales. The bones will not be found - that is what cremation is all about. Removing the evidence sometimes millenia later. Gog and Magog are good examples of English giants mentioned in Genesis. Buried near Cambridge in a vast circle, like the temple near Mount Hermon, and ancient statues of them 15 feet high at the City of London Guildhall I think, destroyed by Hitler's bombs. So now I think that is how Adam survived - he is the original Gulliver buried at Baalbek (near Hermon). What a revelation that would be. Baal means Lord but he seems not to get on with Jehovah in the Bible . The truth is out there. Anyway there are fairly good indication the 'other guys' came from Sirius - the name Syria for one and the alignments on Gilgal Rephaim (wheel of) Hermon's hilltop neighbour(Golan Heights) possibly 'most ancient of all the world's temples after Malta 4000BC', practically undiscovered, points with one tunnel at Sirius and the other at the Summer Solstice sunrise as it would have been 3rd millenium BC (when the angels fell around 3500BC). African legend also knows more than it is possible to know without a radio telescope about Sirius and the Great Pyramid has a shaft pointing at it, most sacred god to the Egyptians (named Sothis). They operated a 1460 calendar based on it rising at the same time as the sun on the same calendar day as they only had 365 days in the year officially and it made Christmas come up at the wrong time almost all olf that time. Check out Gilgal Rephaim - the place has hundreds of dolmens too. Someone has carried up 42000 heavy basalt rocks to build that ring temple wall. I too am incredulous but at what is there before my eyes, factual evidence. This is the land of giants, the Rephaim or Nephilim that Moses euthanased on his way back home after 400 years sojourning in Egypt, all the children thrown in fires. It was some sort of religous difference I believe which can probably be traced to this war angels against men. The angels all assumed thrones and dynasties and own everything. Humans are in fact more intelligent because they have emotions but are slaves. That is all the conspiracy stuff attached to it now - illuminati etc. I agree Eml complete myth, unbelievable and nonsensical but still the stuff that we are made of.

Amazing that it had the impact it has had and the longevity of it,there are some other great stories out there like Odin and the Greeks Olypia,perhaps my favourite is the Aborinals of Australia.

 

[outhouse]

just thinking - could Eden be Malta? Splendid isolation until the temptation to eat this forbidden fruit became too much. You can imagine a pair of monkeys put in some laboratory cage with oranges, apples and bananas. Told to name them but dont eat the bananas. Time them till they do, send them to the mainland and try another experiment like changing their DNA to shorthen their lives, then trying out medical antidotes on them, make them ill (Enoch says Raphael is set over plagues these days) make them better. I bet it is fascinating and rewarding work but I would be too emotive probably. You know want to take the poor things home.

no one knows where eden is IF it is even a real place or all myth

so it could be, it could be anywhere

I always thought the forbidden fruit might have been sexual in nature, it is a myth so who knows what they really ment. you could debate meaning for another thousand years and never come close top what they really ment.

 

[reve]

I have diligently collected a library of all this stuff for 40 odd years only to find it all online now. I am sure we can all live together but the angels will have to make some concessions. They cant rule countries for decades and stash up billions while their people starve, not that all the money the rich have would be enough to satisfy all the hungry mouths for long. On the other hand I am a football supporter and think Arsene Wenger is worth every penny of the millions he gets as are his gifted players. We dont want them going somewhere else for more. But they are sensible, make money as a club unlike arch enemies Manchester United who also have a wonderful manager worth every penny he gets. Unlike them Arsenal pay reasonable wages, are against sky high demands and ridiculous player wages. Which is why they play lovely football but win no cups. Confusing world we have made here. We dont win the lottery to join the gods or angels here, who would look down on us anyway, but we can dream of doing it while scraping a living working our hearts out. Are we mad or sad? We could all be having such a good time - in the sixties it looked like it would be by now but it is unimaginably worse. Meanwhile the Governments and Media act as though we are all the same species. The Middle East is showing that the slaves are restless. They think they want democracy which is the free will con isn't. You can vote but we will rule the angels say. Or we can talk about it later. Good job they have armies and we are gullible. But the truth will out and they are very nice really. No angels not much fun here for the last few thousand years. They brought this fixation we have with sex. Imagine losing that?

 

[England my lionheart]

I have diligently collected a library of all this stuff for 40 odd years only to find it all online now. I am sure we can all live together but the angels will have to make some concessions. They cant rule countries for decades and stash up billions while their people starve, not that all the money the rich have would be enough to satisfy all the hungry mouths for long. On the other hand I am a football supporter and think Arsene Wenger is worth every penny of the millions he gets as are his gifted players. We dont want them going somewhere else for more. But they are sensible, make money as a club unlike arch enemies Manchester United who also have a wonderful manager worth every penny he gets. Unlike them Arsenal pay reasonable wages, are against sky high demands and ridiculous player wages. Which is why they play lovely football but win no cups. Confusing world we have made here. We dont win the lottery to join the gods or angels here, who would look down on us anyway, but we can dream of doing it while scraping a living working our hearts out. Are we mad or sad? We could all be having such a good time - in the sixties it looked like it would be by now but it is unimaginably worse. Meanwhile the Governments and Media act as though we are all the same species. The Middle East is showing that the slaves are restless. They think they want democracy which is the free will con isn't. You can vote but we will rule the angels say. Or we can talk about it later. Good job they have armies and we are gullible. But the truth will out and they are very nice really. No angels not much fun here for the last few thousand years. They brought this fixation we have with sex. Imagine losing that?

I'm a Gooner too

 

[England my lionheart]

no one knows where eden is IF it is even a real place or all myth

so it could be, it could be anywhere

I always thought the forbidden fruit might have been sexual in nature, it is a myth so who knows what they really ment. you could debate meaning for another thousand years and never come close top what they really ment.

I agree,i think its just a part of a lot of really jumbled up myths from people like the Sumerians,the Egyptians also have something interesting in the Book of the Dead that are very simmilar to the commandments

 

[Jacksnyte]

I agree,i think its just a part of a lot of really jumbled up myths from people like the Sumerians,the Egyptians also have something interesting in the Book of the Dead that are very simmilar to the commandments

You mean the Negative Confessions?: Ancient Egypt: The book of the Dead

 

[England my lionheart]

You mean the Negative Confessions?: Ancient Egypt: The book of the Dead

I think so,its some time since i read it but they seemed very like the commandments