Genesis,where did the other Guys come from

[reve]

Nachash is the Hebrew word we translate as serpent, but nachash means 'shining one'. Moses made a 'nachash' of brass. (There is a historical Moses - Pharaoh Thothmoses 2, brought up by the Queen Hatshepsut around 1500BC, did not reign long after T1 died, vanished and was succeeded by Hatshepsut who became regent for long reigning T3, the reason he did not go back for so long perhaps). Snakes were especially important in Egypt, the Pharaoh wore one on his forehead. This all suggests to me those 'fallen' angels'. On thy belly shalt thou go and dust thou shalt eat (ie. planetary bound). The Greek word in the Revelations serpent is in fact 'dracon'. Dragons are even more powerful than snakes in mythology. But it does not take Freud to see the sexual equation here either. 'I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between her seed and thy seed, it shall bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise (her?) heel.' Odd sentence to pass on the snake isn't it. And it is noteworthy that Adam was with Eve when she 'saw that the tree was good for food and that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree to be desired to make one wise she took of the fruit thereof and did eat and gave also to her husband with her and he did eat. And the eyes of both of them were opened.'

She had a husband whose 'voice' said they couldn't eat things and she had started seeing a 'shining one' who said they could eat them but he was frightened that if they did she would realise that he was perhaps not perfect in all departments. So is it sex with 'gentiles' or 'strangers' which is the fruit of this tree and as soon as they start swinging with the locals thay are sent back to the jungle.

Sounds like an early description of a psychadelic experience. I wonder if the actual word for 'tree' here is not 'mushroom' and/or 'manna'. No wonder they were expelled and told they would meet an early death as they are sent packing to earn a living for once. Now why would anyone make that up and pass it down through endless generations? To get the kids to sleep I presume.

These are archetypical situations that we face generation after generation, even with inheritance and kids who fight and in fact hate each other. Wives who hide the shopping bills. Evictions that follow. losing cushy job - ex-presidents come to mindpointless to speculate if the events happened as they do and always did. This story tells us why our ancestors thought it had happened. 33% of people hear God speaking to them directly. That is Adam, not Eve and Cain. Abel gets it but not for long. One in five of us 'see' things. That is Eve. She sees a shining one. Tell someone that and you see snakes which I think has something to do with DT's after taking too much alcohol. If you see what I mean. This is when the other guys come in isn't it. Next thing there are children. Genesis is quite specific that other people have already been created but do not live in this private garden 'Eden'.

Put a modern couple in this paradise isolation and they go mad. Everything looks tempting after a bit. Eve did not have the luxury of choosing her partner, nor Adam. Paradise up to a point. They had no education. Fulfilled only to a point. Open the door and you cant go back. Democracy is great if you are working like a maniac and actually paying the bills.

 

[outhouse]

Do you have any idea how many Jewish folklores could have made it into the Torah that involve talking animals? How many of them deal with morals and consequences? And we get accused of taking the damned story literally...

easy there

my first post stated this

you or jewish people do not get accused of taking the story literally, we know its those dang pesky christians

you are trying to pull reason and reality from a ancient fable. it wont happen.

these fables are not first hand accounts, in fact most spent about 300-500 years of oral tradition before many of the books were compiled into two that were used and edited into genesis.

its a literal patchwork from egyption and sumerian sources plus other local legends edited into semetic languages

much of the fables are not reality based, trying to drag reality out of this is not what the 5 unknown jewish authors ever wanted there work to become.


this is all allegorical material.

 

[iholdit]

Do you have any idea how many Jewish folklores could have made it into the Torah that involve talking animals? How many of them deal with morals and consequences? And we get accused of taking the damned story literally...

Clearly all jews do not take the story literal but many orthodox jews do take it literal. What parts do you believe are literal in scripture if any? For example was adam a literal person or was he a fictional character in jewish folklore?

 

[outhouse]

The serpent at this time was not evil, which was a Christian concept. It was a Sumerian tale anyway but in Canaan the serpent was the god Eshmun (In the Bible Adam's name was Ish and Eve was Ishshah before the expulsion). In the Sumerian tale (bear in mind Abraham is Sumerian at birth) their Adam (Adapa son of Ea) is told by his father to resist offerings of bread and water at Anu's Heavenly abode as they are the bread and water of death. Anu laughs when he tells him this and says he has resisted the bread and water of immortality. He is sent back and cursed with disease. Eshmun is the god of doctors with a staff entwioned by serpents. The story of the brazen serpent lifted up by Moses in the wilderness is another example of the symbolism in early hebrew tradition. In greek mythology the serpent is connected with the underworld and reincarnation (shedding skin) and most importantly with the special knowledgewhich the spirits of the ancestors are supposed to possess(according to PEAKES COMMENTARY) . Thisn of course was thought to be evil by the author (the Yahwist) and equated with the jealousy of the gods making enemies with 'God' by guile and deception.To eat or not to eat that is the question

you might want to check out post #15 adapa is the wrong charactor and not adam

post #15 it starts out like this,, and has the correct information.

Adamu” is the name in Sumerian mythology for the first man, created by “Enki”, the creator god and inventor of civilization. Adam is Hebrew for “man”, and adamah is a Hebrew word signifying dust and earth, and in Aramaic signifying blood. Havva — Hebrew for “Eve” — in Hebrew signifies life.

 

[KnightOwl]

reve - the fact that sooo many people believe the story to be literal illustrates my point that for being all powerful, God's communication skills are lacking... they seem almost human.

 

[reve]

Adapa like Adam is confronted with two foods and told by one angel they are forbdden and another that they are highly recommended, grown for the gods use (lest they become like ....). Both make the wrong decision and are cursed with disease. What I was pointing out is that this is where the tale comes from.

The nachash can also be a whisper. So perhaps Ishshah is saying tol her husband Ish that she has heard from the locals that you can smoke this weed. In the east they still smoke shisha, a tobacco in a water pipe and hashish a hallugenic weed implicated in aggravating shizophrenia and still produced around Lebanon where the story is set.

Later we have the man called Adam and the woman called Eve (hope). Also we know they are not the first people , perhaps the first possessed people. Hypnosis can prevent pain, sunburn and hunger. They did something and their eyes were open. Note Jonathan is with the hypnotised army and tastes some honey. His eyes are then opened to what is going on. The others can breed and the halfcastes (most of us) have this longlived and innate ability but it is kept out of reach. Where do the other guys come from. They seem to have a fascination with a dead star near Sirius. The Book of Enoch says they let down their private parts like horses. Local men stood no chance as the aliens that genesis says found women attractive and were also created by God (his sons) taught enchantments (another meaning for nachash) make up, healing arts and work with gold and silver and oprecious stones and of course knolwledge and power. They must have worried cain until he was given a third eye visible to them but not ordinary mortals. As soon as Adam was confronted by the sun he burned red, so they made him clothes. this also covered his embarrassment. You could not make this up.

 

[outhouse]

Adapa like Adam is confronted with two foods and told by one angel they are forbdden and another that they are highly recommended, grown for the gods use (lest they become like ....). Both make the wrong decision and are cursed with disease. What I was pointing out is that this is where the tale comes from.

The nachash can also be a whisper. So perhaps Ishshah is saying tol her husband Ish that she has heard from the locals that you can smoke this weed. In the east they still smoke shisha, a tobacco in a water pipe and hashish a hallugenic weed implicated in aggravating shizophrenia and still produced around Lebanon where the story is set.

Later we have the man called Adam and the woman called Eve (hope). Also we know they are not the first people , perhaps the first possessed people. Hypnosis can prevent pain, sunburn and hunger. They did something and their eyes were open. Note Jonathan is with the hypnotised army and tastes some honey. His eyes are then opened to what is going on. The others can breed and the halfcastes (most of us) have this longlived and innate ability but it is kept out of reach. Where do the other guys come from. They seem to have a fascination with a dead star near Sirius. The Book of Enoch says they let down their private parts like horses. Local men stood no chance as the aliens that genesis says found women attractive and were also created by God (his sons) taught enchantments (another meaning for nachash) make up, healing arts and work with gold and silver and oprecious stones and of course knolwledge and power. They must have worried cain until he was given a third eye visible to them but not ordinary mortals. As soon as Adam was confronted by the sun he burned red, so they made him clothes. this also covered his embarrassment. You could not make this up.

I have already given you the proper information, your reaching with only imagination and want guiding you.

 

[England my lionheart]

If you look at Gen. 5:3, 4 it says “Adam lived on for a hundred and thirty years. Then he became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.”

During 900 years, Adam was having children and those children were having children and so there were actually many people who came from Adam and Eve... Cain was the first son and would have married one of his sisters. Seth was born 130yrs later (but he is just one of many not mentioned) and so begins the family line that traces to Abraham...that would be why only Seth is mentioned. Other kids would have been born before Seth, but Seths line is the important one for it leads to Abrahams ancestry.

The obvious problem here is the amount of years Adam lived,which, from what we know ,is impossible plus insest doesn't provide a healthy Human

Cain was a grown adult when he murdered Abel and he would have already had many other brothers and obviously sisters too... so his fear would have come from the fact that his deed was known by everyone, and his family were all angry with him...and whats to stop any one of them, or their kids to come, from murdering Cain.

At the end of the day its a matter of supposition,obviously Cain builing a City is a fair pointer to there being others around but like all myths there are parts to be filled in.

 

[England my lionheart]

Not a part of the story?

I think it is though,if Cain is going to build a City you would think the Author would explain why,and anyway there wasn't any Cities when the first Humans came onto the scene


Yes, but Man=Adam is still being created today, as is Eve=Rib. That's the story.

But i still have all my Ribs

 

[England my lionheart]

The damned "snake" was human.
Sheesh. We tell you that people were here before Adam, and of course, we are just full of it. It must be a fable because it is based on a fable that is, of course, being taken for absolute truth because certain people feel it betters them and makes them feel smarter than us stupid people who know the stories are akin to Aesop's stories.
But, noooo, why listen? My saying.what I have doesn't prove your point. I'm just talking out of my ***.

When i was a Kid i liked Aesops Fables,whether religious or not they were at least entertaining

 

[England my lionheart]

Is it too late to jump in here? Seems the thread meanders all over after this.

OK, JMHO about this topic. Nobody is going to like it. Adam and Eve are not the first people. They are the end product of a long evolutionary process to create a physical entity that has the potential to become human. The Genesis story is about the fusion of this physical body with the human soul, and G-d has a direct involvement in this final step. After they are ejected from Eden, of course they're back among these other people, and from that point onward, they have souls as well. That's where the wives of Cain and Able come from, not incest as some assume. If one really thinks that Adam & Eve & Cain & Able are all alone in the world, then the lament of Cain makes no sense. Who is he so afraid of when G-d banishes him for killing his brother?

This is the crux,the Cain part doesn't make any sense unless there were other people,IMO a good Author presents the scene stage and charaters in a few short lines and to me Genesis falls short of that

 

[Thief]

This is the crux,the Cain part doesn't make any sense unless there were other people,IMO a good Author presents the scene stage and charaters in a few short lines and to me Genesis falls short of that

A few good lines happens to be the problem.

The stage was set in Chapter One...and the scenery is sketchy.
Then act two...Chapter Two...is often thought to be a retelling of Chapter One.

It isn't.

Then no one seems to realize, Chapter One is actually a lengthy time period.
And Man is a species in development.

Chapter Two is detail of manipulation.....not creation.

 

[iholdit]

A few good lines happens to be the problem.

The stage was set in Chapter One...and the scenery is sketchy.
Then act two...Chapter Two...is often thought to be a retelling of Chapter One.

It isn't.

Then no one seems to realize, Chapter One is actually a lengthy time period.
And Man is a species in development.

Chapter Two is detail of manipulation.....not creation.

I agree. Also i dont think we can expect the bible which is already over a thousand pages long to include every minute detail of everything that went on. If i live to be 100 a diary of my life would be well over a 1000 pages, there is no way every detail of every person that existed could be recorded in that length without deleting some details.

 

[England my lionheart]

A few good lines happens to be the problem.

The stage was set in Chapter One...and the scenery is sketchy.
Then act two...Chapter Two...is often thought to be a retelling of Chapter One.

It isn't.

Then no one seems to realize, Chapter One is actually a lengthy time period.
And Man is a species in development.

Chapter Two is detail of manipulation.....not creation.

The problem for me is an intelligent being making it less than clear

 

[England my lionheart]

I agree. Also i dont think we can expect the bible which is already over a thousand pages long to include every minute detail of everything that went on. If i live to be 100 a diary of my life would be well over a 1000 pages, there is no way every detail of every person that existed could be recorded in that length without deleting some details.

I think if you are relating something of importance you would definately include as much detail as possible.

 

[Thief]

The problem for me is an intelligent being making it less than clear

How about an Intelligent Being....
introducing Himself.....to Man....

If He waits to present day events....
Many people will dismiss the introduction as an illusion....
suffered by an eighty year old man on a mountain.

Choosing the time period He did.....
A thorough explanation could not be made.

 

[Pegg]

At the end of the day its a matter of supposition,obviously Cain builing a City is a fair pointer to there being others around but like all myths there are parts to be filled in.

we have to take the 'time frame' into consideration with regard to the account though because genesis gives us a 130yr window between the birth of cain and the birth of seth.

Cain was a grown adult when he was banished, we know that because he was a farmer our cultivating the ground...he already had a wife that went with him when he was banished. He wasnt the only son of Adam and Eve...chpt 5 speaks of 'other sons and daughters' even though it only mentions the birth of Seth 130 yrs after the event of Cain killing Abel.

In 130 years, how many children do you think its possible for one couple to have? Even with a 1 year gap between children, we could have around 50 brothers and sisters who lived before the birth of Seth.

 

[iholdit]

I think if you are relating something of importance you would definately include as much detail as possible.

There are lots of thing to consider. You have to consider how much writing resources are available such as tablets or papyrus etc. How easy would it be to transport this stuff, these were a nomadic people. How easy it would be to conceal, there were people who were trying to kill, capture, enslave these people etc. I think you are getting as much detail as you can within these conditions. Not everyone will understand the scripture because not everyone is of the father.

 

[England my lionheart]

There are lots of thing to consider. You have to consider how much writing resources are available such as tablets or papyrus etc. How easy would it be to transport this stuff, these were a nomadic people. How easy it would be to conceal, there were people who were trying to kill, capture, enslave these people etc. I think you are getting as much detail as you can within these conditions. Not everyone will understand the scripture because not everyone is of the father.

"Not everyone is of the Father" so only the chosen people can understand ?,really we should not have to consider these things,if an all powerful God wanted a message to be delivered then the choice of carrier would be something more reliable

 

[outhouse]

LMAO look at there imaginations running!!

telling us how we need to interpret genesis so it fits there own personal need.

never mind reality! never mind reason! and never mind historical facts!

this is getting good