Genesis,where did the other Guys come from

[gnostic]

If you read the other posts you will see i brought up koko the gorilla who could have a whole converstion with people, although it was in sign language. We are certainly not talking about something impossible here. It is much less likely to believe an animal can change colors to adapt to its environment(and we know this happens) than it is to believe an animal can communicate with a human. We know a long list of animals make certain sounds or gestures to communicate with other members of their species, so animals in general communicate all the time. We have no idea what language adam and eve spoke for all we know they spoke the same language as the serpent.

Sure animals can communicate. I can give instruction to dog which the dog have been trained. I don't remember where, in Thailand, Cambodia or Burma, where someone trained an elephant to paint. And yes you can teach some apes sign language. That's all completely different. That's not the issue, is it?

The serpent wasn't using sign language or writing or anything like you could teach an animal. This Genesis explicitly narrate that the serpent can speak to Eve, not through normal serpent communication, but like human, with human voice, human reasoning.

That's where the impossibility lie. If you think can animals other than those mimiking birds, can talk as human would than you might as well as believe in the tooth fairies.

 

[Zardoz]

Well said.
Have we discussed this in another thread?

Or is this the ongoing belief of your faith as you were taught?

Not that I remember, but in my 'Messianic Midrash' posts in my MJ DIR there the whole process is explained as best as I am able. Perhaps you remember reading those. Yes, this is (more or less) what I was taught by my Rebbi. He was a man of science, and well known outside of Jewish circles actually. My posts are but a faint echo of his teachings.

This is the crux,the Cain part doesn't make any sense unless there were other people,IMO a good Author presents the scene stage and charaters in a few short lines and to me Genesis falls short of that

Yes, you get it my friend. The Genesis story is about a spiritual creation, not physical. That's why it's kosher to believe in both Evolution and Genesis. There really isn't a conflict.

Now, we can all agree that no matter who the authors of Genesis are, Moshe or someone later, they did not witness these events. What they record is most likely the oral traditions and stories of our people, and probably much was lost over time.

 

[gnostic]

My point was that we thought the city of troy itself was just a myth until it was actually found.

The location of Troy was known as late the Hellenistic and early Imperial Roman periods. The 2nd century geographer Pausanias gave description of certain sanctuaries that still existed in his time. So it is not a myth.

 

[Pegg]

Sure animals can communicate. I can give instruction to dog which the dog have been trained. ...
That's where the impossibility lie. If you think can animals other than those mimiking birds, can talk as human would than you might as well as believe in the tooth fairies.

you dont think its possible that an invisible spirit person was making the snake speak

ever seen this?

[youtube]B2NgG4B_M5Q[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2NgG4B_M5Q&feature=related

 

[Willamena]

But i still have all my Ribs

Oops. I had some for dinner last night.

 

[gnostic]

you dont think its possible that an invisible spirit person was making the snake speak

ever seen this?


[youtube]B2NgG4B_M5Q[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2NgG...eature=related

I was wondering when someone going to bring up ventriloquist.... (sigh)

...and the spirit possession.... (afterthought)

I will sooner believe in talking animal than possession. Francis the talking mule was my favorite movies back when I was a kid, more so than Mister Ed.

No, seriously. I would believe that people who believe in talking animals are nothing more than delusions.

Do I think the authors of being delusional? No, I think he was smoking pot or on LSD.

 

[Willamena]

where did the other Guys come from?

Stage left.

 

[outhouse]

we know its myth and fiction

we know ancient hebrews used previous pagan fables

it parallels exactly the way christianity branched away from the hebrews, hebrews branched away from pagan religions carrying much of the previous religion with them.

as far as cain and able,, they parallels tales in Sumerian mythology of rivalries between farmer and herder gods.


in that time man was just starting to get settle and devolop agriculture, this caused conflicts with herders and nomadic people.

so for OP what it all boils down to is an ancient hebrew myth that used a oral tale told for hundreds of years around campfires. This myth partially based on the previos pagan religion that was based on actuall events and written down as fables the exact way all cultures wrote down storys. hence the word "STORY" it was a story not history or truth and they knew it should not be read literally. christians jacked that all up

If you search for or look at early written text you will find almost everything is written in a fiction piece based around a small, very small amount of non fiction.

SO searching for ancient hebrew origins, one simply looks at the historical facts regarding that area at that time and you can see where the ancient hebrews storys originated.

 

[England my lionheart]

Oops. I had some for dinner last night.

I love skicky Ribs :drool:

 

[iholdit]

Sure animals can communicate. I can give instruction to dog which the dog have been trained. I don't remember where, in Thailand, Cambodia or Burma, where someone trained an elephant to paint. And yes you can teach some apes sign language. That's all completely different. That's not the issue, is it?

The serpent wasn't using sign language or writing or anything like you could teach an animal. This Genesis explicitly narrate that the serpent can speak to Eve, not through normal serpent communication, but like human, with human voice, human reasoning.

That's where the impossibility lie. If you think can animals other than those mimiking birds, can talk as human would than you might as well as believe in the tooth fairies.

Koko the gorilla didnt just respond like a dog when you tell it to "sit" and it sits. Koko expressed her own opinion about things just like you or i would. I dont think it is that far fetched for an animal to have the vocal system of a bird like an african grey and the ability to express their own opinion such as a gorilla like koko could.

Also we dont know what language eve or the serpent spoke. The bible or torah doesnt say it was specifically hebrew for example. The bible just gives us what was said and not what language it was said in.

We also dont know for sure it was a serpent.
"The word for serpent is seraph which is also the name of intellectual angels sometimes called fiery angels or burning angels, Gabriel and others are called seraphim. Or it could just mean a plain old snake.
Angels are messengers or forces, thoughts are considered angels but they can also be something like gravity."-Yefet
So based on the meaning of the hebrew word used, this could simply be thoughts in eves head and not even an actual serpent.

 

[iholdit]

The location of Troy was known as late the Hellenistic and early Imperial Roman periods. The 2nd century geographer Pausanias gave description of certain sanctuaries that still existed in his time. So it is not a myth.

It was thought of as a myth by many historians, until it was found. Here is a quote from a wikipedia article.
"With the rise of modern critical history, Troy and the Trojan War were consigned to the realms of legend"
Troy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[iholdit]

"Not everyone is of the Father" so only the chosen people can understand ?,really we should not have to consider these things,if an all powerful God wanted a message to be delivered then the choice of carrier would be something more reliable

Not the chosen people, but the people who chose. Do you know how many people tell me they know scripture and then they misquote dozens of verses. Seek and you shall find.

 

[outhouse]

It was thought of as a myth by many historians

it is still myth and factual

your reaching again.

they could find the garden of eden and it will still be a myth

 

[iholdit]

it is still myth and factual

your reaching again.

they could find the garden of eden and it will still be a myth

Lmao!!! So you believe the city of troy is still a myth. Once again you have disagreed with most historians. But of course you know everything, because you were there from the begining of the earth and witnessed everything that occured, Lmao!!!

 

[England my lionheart]

Not the chosen people, but the people who chose. Do you know how many people tell me they know scripture and then they misquote dozens of verses. Seek and you shall find.

Probably highlighted in red with an add on of "whatever you want"

 

[outhouse]

Lmao!!! So you believe the city of troy is still a myth. Once again you have disagreed with most historians. But of course you know everything, because you were there from the begining of the earth and witnessed everything that occured, Lmao!!!

you really need to get a real education, as your having trouble reading.

fron the wiki troy link above

Troy (Hittite: Wilusa or Truwisa;[1][2] Greek: Ἴλιον, Ilion, and Τροία, Troia; Latin: Trōia and Īlium;[3] Turkish: Truva and Troia) was a city, both factual and legendary


Troy in later legend
See also: Trojan War
Such was the fame of the Epic Cycle in Roman and medieval times that it was built upon to provide a starting point for various founding myths of national origins.

 

[iholdit]

you really need to get a real education, as your having trouble reading.

fron the wiki troy link above

Troy (Hittite: Wilusa or Truwisa;[1][2] Greek: ?????, Ilion, and ?????, Troia; Latin: Tr?ia and ?lium;[3] Turkish: Truva and Troia) was a city, both factual and legendary


Troy in later legend
See also: Trojan War
Such was the fame of the Epic Cycle in Roman and medieval times that it was built upon to provide a starting point for various founding myths of national origins.

Lmao!!! Clearly your lack of education is telling here. The city is factual and it is included in legends. Like i said in several post now, including a previous post you took out of context, the city of troy was thought to be myth(not factual and legendary, just a myth) until the actual city of troy was discovered. This is where your ability to read comes into play.

You really seem to be a spambot because of your continous repeat posts. Either that or your constant references to a lack of a real education, to whom ever you argue against, is you projecting. If you feel bad about your level of education then go back to school.

 

[outhouse]

both factual and legendary

a starting point for various founding myths of national origins.


a myth can be based on a true geographical location

 

[iholdit]

Probably highlighted in red with an add on of "whatever you want"

Not whatever you want. The point is the answer is not something easy to find. You have to put the time and effort into finding the answers. This is the whole point, those who actually put the time and effort into seeking will find the truth.

Do you know how many atheists have told me they are former christians and they did everything they could to be a good christian and then one day they realized the bible was false. Those same atheists when pressed about what is false can not even quote scripture correctly.

Just recently i had an atheist tell me they knew the bible was false because there is no way adam could have named all the animals because how could adam name all the microorganisms if he didnt have a microscope and how could he name all the fish in the ocean without a submarine. When i asked where in the bible it says adam named all the microorganisms and all the fish, he told me its in gen 2, that adam named ALL the animals and he acted like i was a moron for not knowing this. Of course i laughed because it says no such thing in gen 2. It says adam named the fowl of the air and the beasts of the field.

This just one example of literally hundreds in my lifetime. These atheists are trying to convince me they did everything they could possibly do to do the fathers will and be of the father. Yet the example i gave shows most of these atheists didnt even read the first 2 chapters of the bible correctly. Like i said seek and you shall find. If you dont make the effort to find the truth, there is nothing i can do to find it for you.

 

[outhouse]

It says adam named the fowl of the air and the beasts of the field.

adam was not he first man

animals existed all over the world at that time