Global warming

[Subduction Zone]

Call it a straw man all you want. Its pretty much the actual fact of the matter.

If it is not a strawman then why can't you support it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Once all the automobiles stop, the deterioration will stop, and the ozone will begin to heal itself. It may take a long time.

No, the ozone hole had a separate cause and is well on its way to healing itself. That was caused mainly by chlorofluorocarbons:

World of Change: Antarctic Ozone Hole

In the early 1980s, scientists began to realize that CFCs were creating a thin spot—a hole—in the ozone layer over Antarctica every spring. This series of satellite images shows the ozone hole on the day of its maximum depth each year from 1979 through 2019.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

AGW is caused mostly be burning fossil fuels. Cars are just one cause of that. And what is worse is that carbon dioxide hangs around fora lot longer and even if we do not add more, but it stays the same the Earth will still warm for decased if not a century.

To "fix" this we might need to take some very extreme actions, but people are rightfully afraid of possible side effects.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That already happened about 4 years ago. So insane is he that the green movement has shown it's true colors by failing left, right, and center.

Then why are sources all of a sudden leery of investing in new, but proven, technology? No, you do not know who the insane person is. Here is a hint, he is the one that lies about "windmills".

 

[Valjean]

You mean for people dying more often if we didn't have fossil fuels being used?

No. You seemed to imply another major cause of the warming. I was curious about what that was.

 

[Valjean]

Once all the automobiles stop, the deterioration will stop, and the ozone will begin to heal itself. It may take a long time.

The ozone hole is already diminishing. It's chlorofluorocarbons, not greenhouse gasses that caused that problem.

The deterioration will continue for a long time.
What will stop the CO2 and CH4 from continuing to pour out of the now bare tundra, or the warming seas from causing methane hydrate nodules on the sea floor to outgass, sending temperatures soaring? Neither will be fixed anytime soon if we give up oil.
Nor will decreasing greenhouse gasses correct the many ecological threats threatening the biosphere itself.

The biosphere is complex, with many interdependent parts; altering one can cause a catastrophic cascade through the whole system -- and many have already been altered.
Picture a Jenga tower....

 

[Valjean]

It’ll run dry. Substitutes? Doubtful. Millions of people maybe even billions will die of starvation because trucks are used to transport all the food. It’s not going to be pretty.

Yes, we've far exceeded the planet's carrying capacity, and are overdependent on our complex infrastructure, much of which lacks backup alternatives.
Rather than run dry, petroleum will continue to become more and more expensive and hazardous to extract. At some point, if we haven't developed green alternatives, we'll have to synthesize oil from our still abundant coal, like Germany was doing late in WWII, after the allies bombed their refineries. This would be more polluting than petroleum.

If we continue to generate greenhouse gasses it could be billions, not millions, who will die as the ecosystem collapses. We're already seeing wars, social unrest and a right-wing political shift in Europe and the middle East that began with climate changes back in 2010 - '15.

 

[Estro Felino]

But I think the lack of IQ in the 97% of world population has led to overpopulation.
That is: the overexploitation of fuels has led to the demographic boom, forgetting that all these raw materials will run out sooner or later.
So... do we really need to procreate?
And the small oilfields here and there will fail to supply the incredibly high demand.

So...yes...it will be a disaster when oil will run out. But at least Earth will have the chance to recover.

I sincerely hope I am dead before that happens.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, we've far exceeded the planet's carrying capacity, and are overdependent on our complex infrastructure, much of which lacks backup alternatives.
Rather than run dry, petroleum will continue to become more and more expensive and hazardous to extract. At some point, if we haven't developed green alternatives, we'll have to synthesize oil from our still abundant coal, like Germany was doing late in WWII, after the allies bombed their refineries. This would be more polluting than petroleum.

If we continue to generate greenhouse gasses it could be billions, not millions, who will die as the ecosystem collapses. We're already seeing wars, social unrest and a right-wing political shift in Europe and the middle East that began with climate changes back in 2010 - '15.

The green alternatives would suffice had we been 2 billion on Earth.

 

[wellwisher]

One good thing is we will run out of oil around 2050 so then it’ll cut way back on greenhouse gases so the Earth will begin to repair itself. Sweet.

The main greenhouse gas in the atmosphere is water vapor. Water vapor accounts for about 4% of the atmosphere at any given time. CO2 accounts for about 0.04%. Water in the atmosphere is far more complex to model, since it can exist as gas, clouds, liquid and solid, which each having a different impact. Solid water can reflect sun light back into space. Clouds can contain all three phases and ebb and flow driving weather with high and low pressure areas altering physical properties.

Water vapor occupies about 1600 times as much space as liquid water. As the sun evaporates water this adds a partial pressure to the atmosphere; high pressure. When water condenses back to liquid; rain, the volume decreases by 1600 times and pulls a vacuum; low pressure. The low pressure of a hurricane is a reflection of its condensation rate, with the vacuum able to spin Cat 5 tornadoes.

Water is far more versatile than CO2. Although water vapor is a greenhouse gas, liquid water has a cooling effect. If the surface of the earth had no liquid water the earth would average about 151F or 66C. Because of liquid water; oceans, lakes, rivers, the earth averages 59F or 15C.

In 1880, when science started to keep official weather records, the earth had 1.5 billion people and now we are up to 8 billion. All those extra people, plus the Industrial Revolution, developed the earth, taking away vegetation which holds water and had a cooling effect. We have added roads, roofs and parking lots, which got much hotter than if that same land was still covered by vegetation.

The effect is considerable and is similar to going to the beach on a hot summer day. The dry sand will be much hotter than the wet sand. This has to do with the unusually high heat capacity of liquid water, compared to the lower heat capacity of building materials like sand, asphalt and even paint.

Heat capacity or thermal capacity is a physical property of matter, defined as the amount of heat to be supplied to an object to produce a unit change in its temperature. The SI unit of heat capacity is joule per kelvin (J/K). Heat capacity is an extensive property.

For the same amount of solar heat, shining on the dry sand and on the wet sand, the temperature rises faster on the dry sand due to its lower heat capacity. It takes less heat to get hotter in temperature. Water, due to hydrogen bonding, has is very heat capacity. It stays cooler; less temperature rise, even after absorbing the same heat.

"Sand can be over 100 degrees Fahrenheit when the outside temperature is only 75 degrees; indeed, when the ambient temperature is 90 degrees, the sand can be over 120 degrees,"

Our advancing world population and the need to develop the land for this increasing population, has had a significant impact on the global temperature rising over the developed land, that was once cooler vegetative land.

Where there is liquid water and sun there is also evaporation, allowing the temperature to even drop below ambient; sweating. In a few hours, we can add 30F to the local dry beach sand. It takes CO2 100 years to get 1.5 C. We can get way more bang for the buck by bulldozing cities and planting trees. I would start with Liberal Cities in a state of disrepair due to mismanagement.

The latest science data now shows that the earth's water is continuous from the atmosphere all the way to the earth's core. I have preached this for years but the now the science proof is in. This water is not all like we see on the surface; vapor, liquid and solid, but exists as exotic phases of water inside the extreme temperature and pressure of the inner earth. Solar evaporation and the 4% water in the atmosphere has an impact all the way to the earth's core.

This can be inferred by observations of the bulge at the equator and new seismic evidence. One data set shows the inner earth materials are denser north to south than from east to west at the bulge. This is not due to the classic spinning theory of the earth; centrifugal force, since there are chemical differences at the level of crystalline material; denser or loose packing. In other words, the minerals pack tighter north to south and are fluffier along the equator where we get maximum solar evaporation. The centrifugal model would not be strong enough to change chemical nature but can only displace material. The bulge is more than a displacement, but also a chemical modification.

Solar evaporation breaks the hydrogen bonding of water and adds positive charge to the atmosphere. Because of the continuity of water to the core, there is a potential for the electron rich iron core to release electrons; rust and magnetic lodestone. These electrons head to the surface toward the atmospheric positive charge. The oceans are slightly alkaline; negatively charged due to this flow. On the way to the surface, these electrons also alter the crystal properties, more where there is the most solar evaporation; equator. The impact of the inner earth is felt by the atmosphere and vice versa; lighting. They also discovered huge reserves of water within mantle minerals; connected to seismic activity. This adds heat to the surface and oceans, coming up from the inner earth and iron core rusting.

The atmospheric models have not added these inner earth dynamics, since this is new science and detached from their focus. They would need to add the 4% water based positively charged atmosphere and negative charged water based oceans; alkaline. CO2 plus water makes carbonic acid which adds even more positive potential; acid, to the atmosphere and oceans. It may help rust the iron core and release more core heat.

Water leaking into Earth's core may have birthed a mysterious layer that churns out crystals

 

[Jimmy]

No, the ozone hole had a separate cause and is well on its way to healing itself. That was caused mainly by chlorofluorocarbons:

World of Change: Antarctic Ozone Hole

In the early 1980s, scientists began to realize that CFCs were creating a thin spot—a hole—in the ozone layer over Antarctica every spring. This series of satellite images shows the ozone hole on the day of its maximum depth each year from 1979 through 2019.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

AGW is caused mostly be burning fossil fuels. Cars are just one cause of that. And what is worse is that carbon dioxide hangs around fora lot longer and even if we do not add more, but it stays the same the Earth will still warm for decased if not a century.

To "fix" this we might need to take some very extreme actions, but people are rightfully afraid of possible side effects.

Oh right I knew that about the ozone. I meant to say the earth and its temp would begin to heal.

 

[F1fan]

It makes you wonder with the massive infrastructure bill that the left wing is crowing about and pushing on people and the fact that people should get stuff for free, begs the question as to why we don't all get free clean energy equipment and accessories for every home in the nation as part of the infrastructure bill.

What do you prefer, every many for himself as if the USA will be better off living like the Walking Dead? Even your corrupt leader Trump made a promise to invest in infrastructure in 2016. Of course he reneged and left it to Biden to get it done. Now that investment is helping drive a huge economic boom that the rest of the planet is envying, and keeping afloat. That includes green energy so the USA can be more energy independent, and less worried about the instability of global oil markets.

If Uncle Sam is going to want to get me on board , it's just going to have to give me an EV vehicle, a solar panel array , and a wind turbine for my roof.

Talk about a freeloader. Burn, baby, burn.

I mean if it is all that urgent and imperative like the covid testing was with free testing and inoculations that came out, the government should pay the bill then for this as well.

We taxpayers are the government, yet you think it's free money? The affects of global warming is happening all around us, as was predicted. Yet the right wing wants to keep playing it's dumb rebellious game. Notice how the right keeps losing elections?

It is a matter of life and death they say.

Yet the right wing disinformation and denial game keep going and going. Some republicans are beginning to realize the anti-claimate change stand is a very bad long term strategy.

 

[Valjean]

The green alternatives would suffice had we been 2 billion on Earth.

Just wait till climate change makes whole regions uninhabitable. Billions may die, and billions more climate refugees would flood the world. Within regions there'd be raiding by gangs. Habitable countries would arm themselves against them -- and each other.
We may reach two billion sooner than we expect.

 

[Jimmy]

Yes, we've far exceeded the planet's carrying capacity, and are overdependent on our complex infrastructure, much of which lacks backup alternatives.
Rather than run dry, petroleum will continue to become more and more expensive and hazardous to extract. At some point, if we haven't developed green alternatives, we'll have to synthesize oil from our still abundant coal, like Germany was doing late in WWII, after the allies bombed their refineries. This would be more polluting than petroleum.

If we continue to generate greenhouse gasses it could be billions, not millions, who will die as the ecosystem collapses. We're already seeing wars, social unrest and a right-wing political shift in Europe and the middle East that began with climate changes back in 2010 - '15.

Well, before that possibly many will die of starvation because gasoline is needed to transport food

 

[Valjean]

Oh right I knew that about the ozone. I meant to say the earth and its temp would begin to heal.

Maybe in a few centuries, with luck, but without the biodiversity that created the conditions and interdependence that maintained the system, we could have a bio-collapse equivalent to the previous mass extinctions. Dead oceans, no oxygen, few plants, and no land animals larger than a marmot.
The damage is more complex and widespread than you seem to realize.

 

[Koberstein]

One good thing is we will run out of oil around 2050 so then it’ll cut way back on greenhouse gases so the Earth will begin to repair itself. Sweet.

There is global warming, but according to the rabbis the earth is aging just like our bodies are in the state of aging and
the earth is having difficulty repelling heat. Everything has a shelf life including the earth, but one day there will be a new
heaven and a new earth according to Revelation 21. The current year on the Hebrew calendar is 5784. Which means it has been 5784 years since creation. Some Messianic rabbis believe some monumental event will happen when we get to the year 6000 on the Hebrew calendar,
because 6 is the number of man.
Shalom

 

[Valjean]

Well, before that possibly many will die of starvation because gasoline is needed to transport food

It's already started.
Q: what food would we have to transport?

 

[Jimmy]

Maybe in a few centuries, with luck, but without the biodiversity that created the conditions and interdependence that maintained the system, we could have a bio-collapse equivalent to the previous mass extinctions. Dead oceans, no oxygen, few plants, and no land animals larger than a marmot.
The damage is more complex and widespread than you seem to realize.

We will run out of fossil fuels before it gets that bad

 

[Valjean]

There is global warming, but according to the rabbis the earth is aging just like our bodies are in the state of aging and
the earth is having difficulty repelling heat. Everything has a shelf life including the earth, but one day there will be a new
heaven and a new earth according to Revelation 21. The current year on the Hebrew calendar is 5784. Which means it has been 5784 years since creation. Some Messianic rabbis believe some monumental event will happen when we get to the year 6000 on the Hebrew calendar,
because 6 is the number of man.
Shalom

But the current changes are not natural. They are man made.
What do the climatologist rabbis believe?

 

[Jimmy]

Ultimately, we’re headed for the 12th century before we used coal.

 

[Koberstein]

But the current changes are not natural. They are man made.

Unless you can change the number of hours in a day, you will not change global warming.