God and Depression

[AntEmpire]

let me tell you what is "sensical" to me

God did not create the heavens and earth just to have fun.

I am sure that God Had created us for purpose, and I am sure there will be a hereafter(judgement day).

God knows the future , but it is not "sensical" to judge us without giving us a chance to pass the test.

what if God created you and told you are in hell, because "if i let live on earth you will cause mischief for humanity", is that what you call "sensical"?.

Qura'an Ch.21 verse 16-17
16 We created not the heaven and the earth and all that is between them in play.

17 If We had wished to find a pastime, We could have found it in Our presence - if We ever did.

Little more sensical is to not create a hell, well at least more humane.

 

[iholdit]

Well God made it easily is that why his creation was ruined after a very short time in the garden?

As you claim the one who preformed the action of designing this messed up world is god, so the glory should go to him, am I right? If the glory for every flower and act of love is his fault then so too is every messed up thing god did. If he is a just god he would take responsibility instead of blaming the innocent beings he put into action.

If i tell you that if you put a fork in an electrical outlet then you will get electricuted and you do it anyway is that my fault? As i already stated the people in question were not innocent they were guilty by their choice. As is every person who knowingly does something wrong is guilty by their choice. As i said you want to blame a god for something people knowingly chose, which doesnt make any sense.

 

[waitasec]

If i tell you that if you put a fork in an electrical outlet then you will get electricuted and you do it anyway is that my fault?

yes because you know that i don't know what being electrocuted means

As i already stated the people in question were not innocent they were guilty by their choice. As is every person who knowingly does something wrong is guilty by their choice. As i said you want to blame a god for something people knowingly chose, which doesnt make any sense.

in light of the fall, if this story is taken literally, yes it was gods fault for setting adam and eve up for failure and holding them accountable for not knowing disobedience was wrong/evil.

everyone is ultimately responsible for their actions which is why a scapegoat cannot take anyones ownership of their own shortcomings...

 

[AntEmpire]

If i tell you that if you put a fork in an electrical outlet then you will get electricuted and you do it anyway is that my fault? As i already stated the people in question were not innocent they were guilty by their choice. As is every person who knowingly does something wrong is guilty by their choice. As i said you want to blame a god for something people knowingly chose, which doesnt make any sense.

God created the opportunity to betray him, and then he created an evil serpent and placed it in the garden, god wasn't dumb he knew what would happen, as you say people aren't innocent neither is god. Its like placing some 5 year olds in a ball pit and a snake too, but i didn't murder the kids the snake I put in there did!

And god punished the unborn children of the two first people who he set up a trap for, exceedingly dick move on his part.

 

[sniper762]

the mind is strong enough to overcome any non physical influence, physical deficincies cannot be overcome mentally.

influense of mind altering drugs and/or weak will dampands ones mental stability

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Why would god make people with mental disorders? (my sister is bi-polar, I have mild depression, my mother had constant anxiety)

Now for this thread assume a supreme being that created humanity exists. Why would he/she/it if it cared for the people it was creating make them with mental disorders? This can slippery slop slide into discussions about retardation, or even physical or even babies that are born and destined to die a painful death weeks later, etc.

Because if everyone was perfect it would be boring.

 

[Commoner]

Because if everyone was perfect it would be boring.

So...for amusement? Whose? His or ours?

 

[iholdit]

yes because you know that i don't know what being electrocuted means



in light of the fall, if this story is taken literally, yes it was gods fault for setting adam and eve up for failure and holding them accountable for not knowing disobedience was wrong/evil.

everyone is ultimately responsible for their actions which is why a scapegoat cannot take anyones ownership of their own shortcomings...

What if i told you what electricuted is then is it my fault?
In scripture gen 2:16-17. The father tells adam that disobedience will kill him. In fact adam and eve must have been told several times about the consequences because in gen 3:3 we see there is even mention of not touching the tree which was not mentioned in gen 2:16-17. They were obviously told several times it was wrong and what the consequences were. The father did not set them up they chose it themselves knowing the consequences.

 

[iholdit]

God created the opportunity to betray him, and then he created an evil serpent and placed it in the garden, god wasn't dumb he knew what would happen, as you say people aren't innocent neither is god. Its like placing some 5 year olds in a ball pit and a snake too, but i didn't murder the kids the snake I put in there did!

And god punished the unborn children of the two first people who he set up a trap for, exceedingly dick move on his part.

Adam and eve had a choice, they were not killed by snakes in a snake pit they died by their own choice. If i tell you a plant is poisonous(and explain what poisonous is). Then someone else says iholdit is a liar he just doesnt want you to eat the plant because he knows you will become better than him. Whos fault is it you ate the plant and got poisoned mine or yours or the other person? Even if you blame the other person for giving you false information it was still your decision. But i dont see how you can blame me for your own choice or for the other person giving you false information. It doesnt make sense.

 

[tumbleweed41]

But would you purposefully put the poisonous plant in the same room as a test to see if the person you warned believed you?

 

[iholdit]

But would you purposefully put the poisonous plant in the same room as a test to see if the person you warned believed you?

Its not really the same room. It would be like me telling my children not to eat from 2 plants in our whole neighborhood more likely our whole state(i live in the u.s.).
There was alot of plants adam and eve could eat and alot of area they could go in. There was a total of 2 trees they could not eat from in the whole garden of probably hundreds and maybe even thousands of plants.
This is not what you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Its not really the same room. It would be like me telling my children not to eat from 2 plants in our whole neighborhood more likely our whole state(i live in the u.s.).
There was alot of plants adam and eve could eat and alot of area they could go in. There was a total of 2 trees they could not eat from in the whole garden of probably hundreds and maybe even thousands of plants.
This is not what you seem to be trying to make it out to be.

The point is, according to the story, God purposefully put those two trees in the garden.

 

[Orias]

No more than proto-dogs created dogs. We just ******, developed language, and the word man slipped out of some of our mouths on an island in europe. I'm still not seeing the creating part.

Must be a lack of imagination.

Create:to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes.

to evolve from one's own thought or imagination, as a work of art or an invention.

Anything that comes from nature, is natural, even if synthetically evolved, it still is natural.

Man does not "un-willingly" seek a path, man creates his own.

Unless you're talking about the word Human, or the concept, but those aren't the same as what a Human is, words are empty, they're dead.

Persay, labels are dead, not words.

How are humans brought into existence?

 

[PolyHedral]

the mind is strong enough to overcome any non physical influence,

No. It is not strong enough to overcome it's own faulty mechanisms, mostly because there isn't anything to overcome.

 

[sniper762]

Mine is

 

[iholdit]

The point is, according to the story, God purposefully put those two trees in the garden.

As i stated several times in this thread the father did not create puppets. What is the point of having free will if you can only make good decisions?

The trees were 2 amongst hundreds. Adam and eve had hundreds of choices that were good and 2 that were bad. They knew which were bad choices and they knew the consequences of those choices.

I dont see how you would blame a god for their mistake, which they made knowingly.

 

[PolyHedral]

As i stated several times in this thread the father did not create puppets. What is the point of having free will if you can only make good decisions?

The trees were 2 amongst hundreds. Adam and eve had hundreds of choices that were good and 2 that were bad. They knew which were bad choices and they knew the consequences of those choices.

I dont see how you would blame a god for their mistake, which they made knowingly.

Because they didn't make it knowingly. They're lacking knowledge of good and evil, remember?

 

[iholdit]

Because they didn't make it knowingly. They're lacking knowledge of good and evil, remember?

You are not responsible for sins you commit without knowing it is a sin. For example adam and eve were naked but they didnt know and it wasnt held against them.

Adam and eve did know not to eat from the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were told multiple times not to eat it and they were told the consequences multiple times.

They only knew good before eating from the tree and because they only knew good they didnt know it was good because they had nothing to compare it to. Havent you ever heard that you dont know what you got until its gone? Well you dont know what good is until you know what bad is.

When they ate from the tree they didnt learn what good was they already had experienced that. They learned what bad is because they experienced what being bad is and they knew the difference between good and bad. They already knew the consequences but it wasnt until they ate the fruit that they experienced what being bad is.

They were told what the concept of bad and good were. But there is a difference between hearing a concept and exeriencing it yourself(knowing it).
I can tell you if you put your hand in fire its bad,it hurts and your skin will blister etc. At that point you will understand the concept of what happens when you stick your hand in fire. But you wont know what it feels like, you wont know what the blisters look like and you wont even know if i am telling you the truth. When you stick your hand in fire then you know. But am i to blame because you stuck your hand in fire even though i told you everything that would happen to you? Do you really have to stick your hand in fire to understand the concept that sticking your hand in fire is bad?

 

[tumbleweed41]

So apparently, the tree was put there for the express purpose of teaching man the difference between good and evil.

 

[iholdit]

So apparently, the tree was put there for the express purpose of teaching man the difference between good and evil.

There is no need to know evil the same way there is no need to stick your hand in fire to recognize it is bad. It was a bad decision on adam and eves part.

If everything was always good you would consider that normal. You may not label it as good because you have no bad experience to compare it to.

But it is better to live in an environment that is always good and never know evil than it is to experience evil and know the difference between good and evil.

At least that is my opinion. Would you want to experience evil or stick your hand in fire for that matter?