God gives you freedom, and then forces you to do as He Commands.--?? Incompatible.

[roli]

Would you give up your moral sense and live in darkness or should you admit that Eve did the right thing by moving you to the light?

Jesus is the light and
Only 3 questions here:
1) You made a concluding statement earlier on page #7 "the real God that is", who is that to you ? I mean in your view,"do we both serve the same God ?

Genesis says that to know God we must know good and evil. Eve chose to help us by moving us out of the garden of ignorance to the world of God's light

.
I thought Genesis was emphatic on "obedience" upon hearing the word of the Lord !


How does Eve help us again ? We were condemned, cursed, exiled, eneimies of God, separated, and removed from the light, which was God's presence.
At the fall man forfeited the deed of the earth.... if you will ,over to satan !


If your saying Eve helped us to the light,than your concluding this was God's plan, yet in Genesis 6:
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Maybe we should move this to a PM, let me know.

Thanks

 

[Greatest I am]

Jesus is the light and
Only 3 questions here:
1) You made a concluding statement earlier on page #7 "the real God that is", who is that to you ? I mean in your view,"do we both serve the same God ?


.
I thought Genesis was emphatic on "obedience" upon hearing the word of the Lord !


How does Eve help us again ? We were condemned, cursed, exiled, eneimies of God, separated, and removed from the light, which was God's presence.
At the fall man forfeited the deed of the earth.... if you will ,over to satan !


If your saying Eve helped us to the light,than your concluding this was God's plan, yet in Genesis 6:
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Maybe we should move this to a PM, let me know.

Thanks

I have no secrets unless you do.
I was born RC but my closest label would be Gnostic Christian/without the mysticism.

As my signature indicates, God is a cosmic consciousness. The KJ Bible was instrumental in helping me find God but all Bibles have value for thought. I say my true God because the Christian version is supposed to do miracles although none are here for us to ponder. My God does not do miracles. He is more of a natural extension to us. He is our next evolution. All of us go to heaven when dead. No exceptions. No hell. A true God would logically not need one. Scripture says that God wants us all to reach Him and we do. most Christians thing we can somehow, usually through sin, thwart God's will. They give man the power to do so but this is not possible. We are not more powerful than God.

As to the fall. I see it more as a glorious leap to knowledge of God. Eve gave us a moral sense that allows us to know Gods mind. Without this, we would not be here and Adam and Eve would still be alone in the garden of ignorance. Gods light is just brightness to the eyes. Eve's eyes as scripture says were opened and now we can all see all the widsom that resides in the light

Regards
DL

 

[roli]

I have no secrets unless you do.


As my signature indicates, God is a cosmic consciousness. The KJ Bible was instrumental in helping me find God but all Bibles have value for thought. I say my true God because the Christian version is supposed to do miracles although none are here for us to ponder. My God does not do miracles. He is more of a natural extension to us. He is our next evolution. All of us go to heaven when dead. No exceptions. No hell. A true God would logically not need one. Scripture says that God wants us all to reach Him and we do. most Christians thing we can somehow, usually through sin, thwart God's will. They give man the power to do so but this is not possible. We are not more powerful than God.

As to the fall. I see it more as a glorious leap to knowledge of God. Eve gave us a moral sense that allows us to know Gods mind. Without this, we would not be here and Adam and Eve would still be alone in the garden of ignorance. Gods light is just brightness to the eyes. Eve's eyes as scripture says were opened and now we can all see all the widsom that resides in the light

Regards
DL

First off,I appreciate and respect your transparency and honesty in sharing your heart on open forum.

I was born RC but my closest label would be Gnostic Christian/without the mysticism

.
You mentioned the KJV brought you do God, may I ask....what part was key ?
Because if your present views stated above are of a gnostic origin, including the gospels you read.
Than it's understandable why your doctrines in which you believe are not found in the original Holy Bible.....that is the judeo christian writings.

Di d you start with Holy scripture, and then move in your own direction to come to your present beliefs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Let's continue with your scenario to when you give freedom to your children or when they take freedom themselves, when they leave home to make their own way. You lose the right to punish them for not making their bed or some other rule at your home.

But if a certain time to be home are a part of the rules, then you can still punish them.

 

[Greatest I am]

First off,I appreciate and respect your transparency and honesty in sharing your heart on open forum.
.
You mentioned the KJV brought you do God, may I ask....what part was key ?
Because if your present views stated above are of a gnostic origin, including the gospels you read.
Than it's understandable why your doctrines in which you believe are not found in the original Holy Bible.....that is the judeo christian writings.

Di d you start with Holy scripture, and then move in your own direction to come to your present beliefs.

No scripture is holy. There is nothing that I would call holy unless named so by God.
To date only man has labeled anything holy.

I began with works of philosophy and moved to the KJ. Not finding the same God as most Christian's, thank God, I continued till I recognized myself as a potentials Gnostic Christian/without the more mystical and supernatural aspect. No miracles allowed. There is no such thing. These are a crutch to replace wisdom.

I had gnosis before I knew of that word.

My beliefs had to be formed before God confirmed them. In my case the motivation to seek Him was confrontation and arrogance. Not all need go this route. We are all different.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

But if a certain time to be home are a part of the rules, then you can still punish them.

You will notice above that i said that they have left home to one of their own.

See the difference?

Regards
DL

 

[AK4]

No scripture is holy. There is nothing that I would call holy unless named so by God.
To date only man has labeled anything holy.

Regards
DL

I was with you until you said this. You say the no scripture is holy--do believe the Word of God is holy? (im not talking about faulty translations or bibles either im talking of the original scriptures)

I will not correct you (scripturally) yet because maybe you have mistated your words or maybe i may be reading too much into your words, but to say no scripture is holy is uhm......well .....unscriptural.

 

[Greatest I am]

I was with you until you said this. You say the no scripture is holy--do believe the Word of God is holy? (im not talking about faulty translations or bibles either im talking of the original scriptures)

I will not correct you (scripturally) yet because maybe you have mistated your words or maybe i may be reading too much into your words, but to say no scripture is holy is uhm......well .....unscriptural.

Which particular scripture do you think God endorsed. I hope not the ones where He uses a genocidal flood or the ones where He tells us to stone our unruly sons and daughters to death. I don't believe in talking snakes or ten headed monsters either.

I am also confused by the fact that Peter was to head the Church and yet his gospel was rejected by Constantine paid bunch.

If you can make sense of these then who knows, I may recant.

Regards
DL

 

[SpiritualBeing]

May I just say, to an Atheist, the Bible is just another book of words. They will not necesarilly abide by the commandments, and so, they are not being forced to follow God's law. it is their decision not to follow God, and so, if they decided, then we all can decide not to follow them.

As I said before, if we all broke the law, then where would todays society be? We would all be under the rule of the armed forces, would we not? And so, I believe that we need some sort of Spiritual rules in order for us all to live together as good Spiritual beings.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

When man was given freedom and free choice, he rejoiced. Then God gave His commandments with the threat of punishment if His commandments and laws are not followed. These two concepts are incompatible. God gives up His -right- to command and then threatens those who do not follow His commands.

First, God didn't give up his right to command and therefore punishes those who actively seek to subvert brotherly love and human decency. Sorry, but the OP gives a shallow and petty description of the nature of God.

Similarly, parents also have common circumstances as co-creators. Are we going to hold them with the same contempt?

Debate-
Which is it? Are we free or are we slaves?

I'd say a little bit of both.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Dr. Seuss's Seussisms

 

[Greatest I am]

May I just say, to an Atheist, the Bible is just another book of words. They will not necesarilly abide by the commandments, and so, they are not being forced to follow God's law. it is their decision not to follow God, and so, if they decided, then we all can decide not to follow them.

As I said before, if we all broke the law, then where would todays society be? We would all be under the rule of the armed forces, would we not? And so, I believe that we need some sort of Spiritual rules in order for us all to live together as good Spiritual beings.

Yes and no.
Many of the Secularist nations are living under more just laws than that offered by religion.

They are growing twice as fast as Religionists primarily because of Fundamentals and badly understood Bibles. Too bad for us. We are losing the fight for their respect.

Justice is the key. Christianity and others do not offer it.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

First, God didn't give up his right to command and therefore punishes those who actively seek to subvert brotherly love and human decency. Sorry, but the OP gives a shallow and petty description of the nature of God.

Similarly, parents also have common circumstances as co-creators. Are we going to hold them with the same contempt?



I'd say a little bit of both.

You cannot be free and a slave.

Yes, if my parents did this or if I or you do this with our children then we would all deserve the same contempt. Think about your own relationships when you were given freedom from home and moved to your own.

Regards
DL

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Yes, if my parents did this or if I or you do this with our children then we would all deserve the same contempt. Think about your own relationships when you were given freedom from home and moved to your own.

Again, if you follow my analogy, WHEN YOU'RE A CHILD/MINOR,not an adult, you are hopefully under adult authority. This authority is absolute and if you are insubordinate, you are required to pay the penalties. As God's children, throughout our lives on earth, we are required to obey his commands and if we choose through free will to disobey His rules, we too are required to pay His penalties in this world and/or the next.

Jesus, through His free will, took the beating for us so that we would not have to pay the price of sin/Hell in the afterlife. This gift has conditions and if we are to except this wonderful grant then we must acknowledge who He was and imitate His selfless and loving characteristics. If we choose not to, well...as Mr. Wolf so poinently put it in Pulp Fiction, "...get it straight buster. I'm not here to say please. I'm here to tell you what to do. And if self preservation is this to you possess, you better funking do it and do it quick. I'm here to help. If my helps not appreciated, lots of luck to you gentlemen."..... "If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you to act fast. So pretty please, with sugar on top, clean the funking car."

We need to clean our lives up and in that sense, we are slaves to God's will. Some do it continuously as they can, other do it on Sundays or not at all.

You said,

You cannot be free and a slave.

I say people do it most of their lives. This part-time Godliness is the slave/free interplay people try to get away with... and guess what? Jesus will spit those people out like a loogy. :cover:

 

[Greatest I am]

Again, if you follow my analogy, WHEN YOU'RE A CHILD/MINOR,not an adult, you are hopefully under adult authority. This authority is absolute and if you are insubordinate, you are required to pay the penalties. As God's children, throughout our lives on earth, we are required to obey his commands and if we choose through free will to disobey His rules, we too are required to pay His penalties in this world and/or the next.

Jesus, through His free will, took the beating for us so that we would not have to pay the price of sin/Hell in the afterlife. This gift has conditions and if we are to except this wonderful grant then we must acknowledge who He was and imitate His selfless and loving characteristics. If we choose not to, well...as Mr. Wolf so poinently put it in Pulp Fiction, "...get it straight buster. I'm not here to say please. I'm here to tell you what to do. And if self preservation is this to you possess, you better funking do it and do it quick. I'm here to help. If my helps not appreciated, lots of luck to you gentlemen."..... "If I'm curt with you, it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you to act fast. So pretty please, with sugar on top, clean the funking car."

We need to clean our lives up and in that sense, we are slaves to God's will. Some do it continuously as they can, other do it on Sundays or not at all.

You said,


I say people do it most of their lives. This part-time Godliness is the slave/free interplay people try to get away with... and guess what? Jesus will spit those people out like a loogy. :cover:

Some are born to help Jesus bear the burden of the cross. Some are born to ride it.
Some are born to take resposibility. Some to shirk duty.
You wish to remain a slave child where I wish and am a free man.

You ride the cross and add burden, I help and cary.

Regards
DL

 

[Jeremy Mason]

You wish to remain a slave child where I wish and am a free man.

Romans 7:25 (NIV)

25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Corintians 9:27 (NIV)

27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

"For every disciplined effort there is a multiple reward"

Jim Rohn

You ride the cross and add burden, I help and cary.

Ok there Joseph of Arimathia. But I got warn you...this brother is heavy.

 

[Greatest I am]

Romans 7:25 (NIV)


Corintians 9:27 (NIV)



Jim Rohn





Ok there Joseph of Arimathia. But I got warn you...this brother is heavy.

Do you believe scripture? Thump for thump.

Jesus admits he is not God. Do we need a new Bible?
Luke
18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.
Jesus has been quoted, misquoted, his quotes have been softened or added to by the various writers of scripture years after the original text was put to paper.
Many say they follow Jesus yet have not given all to the poor as instructed by Jesus himself.
Is there any true quotes in scripture or can we now say that all of it has been interpreted all out of shape?
With the finding of new scripture over the last few decades, should the Vatican not be thinking of a new bible.
I believe that when Constantine put the Bible together he meant it as a first best guess. We must remember that at the time many other scriptures were rejected and we do not know how those fit with the new found scriptures that were not even considered for the bible. If they would have been available at the time, would the Bible that we have be the same?
Since Fundamentals are presently making laughing stocks of all those who use the Bible with their interpretations and literal readings, I wonder if it is not a good time for the Vatican to make a clear statement with a new Bible without all the colorful mythical creatures, talking snakes and 10 headed creatures that are pushing Christianity into a grave?
The Bible is a book of philosophy for good living. It is not a book of fantasy. I believe that people are sophisticated enough today to recognize it’s worth without the artistic liberty of the ancients.
Presently, Secularists are growing about twice as fast as Christianity and Islam. Primarily, I believe because of the fact that the Bible is open to ridicule because of those that read it literally. It is hard for Secularists to see the philosophy while they are laughing.
Debate.
Is leaving the Bible as is hurting Religionists or would we be helped with a new Bible in reversing the flow of our laughing friends into Secularism.
Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Let me tell you now. If all you will do is thump at me then we are done. I know the Bible better than you do. That is why I ignore much of it.

Regards
DL

 

[AK4]

Which particular scripture do you think God endorsed. I hope not the ones where He uses a genocidal flood or the ones where He tells us to stone our unruly sons and daughters to death. I don't believe in talking snakes or ten headed monsters either.

I am also confused by the fact that Peter was to head the Church and yet his gospel was rejected by Constantine paid bunch.

If you can make sense of these then who knows, I may recant.

Regards
DL

Which scripture? All.

2Ti 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Not these biased translations. Thats why you need concordances and lexicons to find the truth in these translations. The original scriptures are holy. The words of God/Jesus is spirit and therefore are parables/near stories and are not to be taken too literal. Thats the problem with Jews and Christains and most of mankind.

Talking snakes and donkeys may or may not have been literal, but ten headed beasts and the such are symbols, all the beasts of Revelations are symbols of representing something. Trees, grass, hills, moutain(s), lion, sheep, birds, locusts etc etc through the whole Word of God are symbols of something. the key to figuring it all out is comparing spiritual with spiritual, here a little, there little, line upon line, precept upon precept. The church (thats saying almost all denominations) doesnt know how to do this and neither to jews or people who God has not open their eyes. They hear but dont hear and see but dont see.

You say you know scripture, but to know scripture and be able see the spiritual in it is two different "realms".

I do give you credit though you are able to see that man cant have a free will.

 

[Greatest I am]

Which scripture? All.

All scripture should be judged on their merit.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...+3:16&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1

2Ti 3:16http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...+3:16&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...+3:16&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...+3:16&version=kjv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1

Which God. God the loving father or God the genocidal maniac?

Not these biased translations. Thats why you need concordances and lexicons to find the truth in these translations. The original scriptures are holy. The words of God/Jesus is spirit and therefore are parables/near stories and are not to be taken too literal. Thats the problem with Jews and Christains and most of mankind.

Nothing is holy on this earth. truth is found with logic, not in translations. They might clarify but these too must be judged by logic.

Too literal? Most of manking being wrong means that the scripture is badly written.

Talking snakes and donkeys may or may not have been literal,

Do you believe such to be real?

but ten headed beasts and the such are symbols, all the beasts of Revelations are symbols of representing something. Trees, grass, hills, moutain(s), lion, sheep, birds, locusts etc etc through the whole Word of God are symbols of something. the key to figuring it all out is comparing spiritual with spiritual, here a little, there little, line upon line, precept upon precept. The church (thats saying almost all denominations) doesnt know how to do this and neither to jews or people who God has not open their eyes. They hear but dont hear and see but dont see.

You say you know scripture, but to know scripture and be able see the spiritual in it is two different "realms".

I do give you credit though you are able to see that man cant have a free will.

Man does have free will to do the possible. There are consequences sometimes for doing so. These are imposed by nature or other humans, not God.

Regards
DL