God Is Not A Christian

[oldbadger]

God is not a Christian.
God is not Jewish.
God is not Islamic.
God is not a Hindu.

God, as the supreme being, monotheistic deity, or creator of the universe, is not a member of any man made, earth bound religion. No single religion/denomination can lay claim that God belongs to them, and them alone. If anything, the exact nature of God is unknown. You can quote whatever holy book that you want, it does not prove anything.

It is important to separate the human conceptions of God from what we can actually observe...which will be difficult, since God does not make personal appearances and has yet to be captured on camera/video. To that end, we have to study nature and the cosmos in order to see God's creation at work and evolving (incidentally that is the core of deism).

God can't be bound in any human system of belief. Nor can God be restricted to one culture or geographic location. The exact details about God are unknown, and will remain so until said deity decides to make a personal appearance at a press conference, and goes through a Q&A session.

Absolutely! Agreed!

The thing is, our Galaxy is almost ceretain to contain other intelligent life, and our Universe must be bunged full of it, so our God is God of rather a lot of lifeforms, probably with their own prophets and all.

So that's that, really. But it might be slightly easier for Deists to admit this ..... possibly?

 

[Neo Deist]

Absolutely! Agreed!

The thing is, our Galaxy is almost ceretain to contain other intelligent life, and our Universe must be bunged full of it, so our God is God of rather a lot of lifeforms, probably with their own prophets and all.

So that's that, really. But it might be slightly easier for Deists to admit this ..... possibly?

Oh absolutely! I always say to think on a cosmic scale instead of an earth centric one. The ancients did not have telescopes. They had no clue what those twinkling dots in the night sky were.

 

[oldbadger]

Oh absolutely! I always say to think on a cosmic scale instead of an earth centric one. The ancients did not have telescopes. They had no clue what those twinkling dots in the night sky were.

Ha ha! Yes!
And to think, astronomers have observed that some galaxies are not moving in sync with their anticipated paths within our Universe, which might suggest great external attractions and bodies.

Wow! God gets bigger all the time, and our prophets, together with our tiny planet, get smaller.
That's probably why so many prophets have been so humble that we never even knew they were around!

 

[Neo Deist]

This world is ruled by God's adversary because he was the one who said man doesn't need God to tell him how to live. I think we can safely say that he was a pathetic liar.

Obama?

 

[Desert Snake]

God is not a Christian.
God is not Jewish.
God is not Islamic.
God is not a Hindu.

God, as the supreme being, monotheistic deity, or creator of the universe, is not a member of any man made, earth bound religion. No single religion/denomination can lay claim that God belongs to them, and them alone. If anything, the exact nature of God is unknown. You can quote whatever holy book that you want, it does not prove anything.

It is important to separate the human conceptions of God from what we can actually observe...which will be difficult, since God does not make personal appearances and has yet to be captured on camera/video. To that end, we have to study nature and the cosmos in order to see God's creation at work and evolving (incidentally that is the core of deism).

God can't be bound in any human system of belief. Nor can God be restricted to one culture or geographic location. The exact details about God are unknown, and will remain so until said deity decides to make a personal appearance at a press conference, and goes through a Q&A session.

Why are you arguing about 'sola fide' , in a Scriptural context, then? serious question, because is asked what ''deism'' had to do with that premise/argument.
This premise is not relating any inherent truth to 'Scripture', at all, much less basing an argument on it

 

[Deeje]

Obama?

All political rulers in the front line are just puppets. It's the one who is pulling the strings that is the Arch enemy of God and all those who wish to worship him acceptably.

The small fry are inconsequential.

 

[Neo Deist]

All political rulers in the front line are just puppets. It's the one who is pulling the strings that is the Arch enemy of God and all those who wish to worship him acceptably.

The small fry are inconsequential.

And who, pray tell, would that arch enemy be?

 

[Kirran]

All political rulers in the front line are just puppets. It's the one who is pulling the strings that is the Arch enemy of God and all those who wish to worship him acceptably.

The small fry are inconsequential.

So is there some particular form worship takes? Do you go to the Kingdom Hall and sing or anything? How do you understand God to have demanded you worship him exactly?

 

[Deeje]

And who, pray tell, would that arch enemy be?

There is an unseen power behind the world rulers. The Bible only identifies this enemy as "satan" (resistor) and "devil" (slanderer)
He is the would-be usurper of the sovereign God's rightful position. He can only rule those who accept him as a god and give him servitude....which is most of the world because he is a master of deception. What better way to manipulate people than to convince them that he doesn't exist?

I can't make you believe that he exercises power over people, but those who do believe it, are either his best friends or his mortal enemies. Which are you?

 

[Deeje]

So is there some particular form worship takes? Do you go to the Kingdom Hall and sing or anything? How do you understand God to have demanded you worship him exactly?

We go to our Kingdom Hall to learn about our God and how to serve his interests in this ungodly world. We model our worship on the first-century Christians who met for worship in modest buildings, studied God's written word, sang praises to God and told others about his kingdom. This is the same form of worship practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses all over the world. JW.ORG

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

There is an unseen power behind the world rulers. The Bible only identifies this enemy as "satan" (resistor) and "devil" (slanderer)
He is the would-be usurper of the sovereign God's rightful position. He can only rule those who accept him as a god and give him servitude....which is most of the world because he is a master of deception. What better way to manipulate people than to convince them that he doesn't exist?

I can't make you believe that he exercises power over people, but those who do believe it, are either his best friends or his mortal enemies. Which are you?

Elevating TheSatan to almost deity status diminishes God. I prefer the Jewish concept of TheSatan as shown in Job; as OUR Adversary, NOT God's.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Elevating TheSatan to almost deity status diminishes God. I prefer the Jewish concept of TheSatan as shown in Job; as OUR Adversary, NOT God's.

Yes, it's practically idolatrous to be scared of a being so much less powerful than God, isn't it?

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

Yes, it's practically idolatrous to be scared of a being so much less powerful than God, isn't it?

Well, us weak humans should be fearful, or at least cautious, as Job shows us; but never to think that TheSatan is in rebellion against God. Indeed he is just an Angel doing a nasty, unpleasant, thankless, and dirty job. We must fight him always, of course, but not make a deity out of him.

 

[Deeje]

Elevating TheSatan to almost deity status diminishes God. I prefer the Jewish concept of TheSatan as shown in Job; as OUR Adversary, NOT God's.

In Job's account Thesatan is the adversary of God by becoming an enemy determined to turn all humankind away from their rightful sovereign. He is man's adversary but the test was designed to show that God's trust in the faith of a man like Job was misplaced. These tests were designed to humiliate God, not just Job.

Job 2:3-5:
" Adonai asked the Adversary, “Did you notice my servant Iyov, that there’s no one like him on earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and shuns evil, and that he still holds on to his integrity, even though you provoked me against him to destroy him for no reason?” 4 The Adversary answered Adonai, “Skin for skin! A person will give up everything he has to save his life. 5 But if you reach out your hand and touch his flesh and bone, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!”

Do you see God's question to Thesatan here? "Did you notice my servant Iyov...?" The whole reason why Iyov suffered these severe tests is because the adversary "noticed" that there was no one like him...a "man who fears God and shuns evil" despite the adversary's attempts to sabotage his faith.

But notice also that when satan said..."Skin for skin! A person will give up everything he has to save his life. But if you reach out your hand and touch his flesh and bone, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!”

He did not say that "Job would give up everything he has to save his life"....he said that "a person"...meaning any person would do so. This was an attack on all humankind. The devil accused Job of only serving God for his own selfish interests. If the things he valued were stripped from him, he would falter in his faith....when that didn't work, he took Job to within an inch of his life, basically saying that any human would curse God if it meant saving his own skin. Job's example serves all of us. He is our representative and our model.

 

[Deeje]

Well, us weak humans should be fearful, or at least cautious, as Job shows us; but never to think that TheSatan is in rebellion against God. Indeed he is just an Angel doing a nasty, unpleasant, thankless, and dirty job. We must fight him always, of course, but not make a deity out of him.

He made a deity out of himself. Even asking Jesus to do an act of worship to him. (Luke 4:5-8)

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

In Job's account Thesatan is the adversary of God by becoming an enemy determined to turn all humankind away from their rightful sovereign. He is man's adversary but the test was designed to show that God's trust in the faith of a man like Job was misplaced. These tests were designed to humiliate God, not just Job.....

The Jewish backstory for the book of Job makes much more sense. God is just about to give the Torah to the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai, and wants TheSatan distracted. It almost fails with the Golden Calf incident anyways, even without interference. They both know this of course.

 

[Tumah]

In Job's account Thesatan is the adversary of God by becoming an enemy determined to turn all humankind away from their rightful sovereign. He is man's adversary but the test was designed to show that God's trust in the faith of a man like Job was misplaced. These tests were designed to humiliate God, not just Job.

Job 2:3-5:
" Adonai asked the Adversary, “Did you notice my servant Iyov, that there’s no one like him on earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and shuns evil, and that he still holds on to his integrity, even though you provoked me against him to destroy him for no reason?” 4 The Adversary answered Adonai, “Skin for skin! A person will give up everything he has to save his life. 5 But if you reach out your hand and touch his flesh and bone, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!”

Do you see God's question to Thesatan here? "Did you notice my servant Iyov...?" The whole reason why Iyov suffered these severe tests is because the adversary "noticed" that there was no one like him...a "man who fears God and shuns evil" despite the adversary's attempts to sabotage his faith.

But notice also that when satan said..."Skin for skin! A person will give up everything he has to save his life. But if you reach out your hand and touch his flesh and bone, without doubt he’ll curse you to your face!”

He did not say that "Job would give up everything he has to save his life"....he said that "a person"...meaning any person would do so. This was an attack on all humankind. The devil accused Job of only serving God for his own selfish interests. If the things he valued were stripped from him, he would falter in his faith....when that didn't work, he took Job to within an inch of his life, basically saying that any human would curse God if it meant saving his own skin. Job's example serves all of us. He is our representative and our model.

In general I recommend against quoting from the "Complete Jewish Bible" as it represents one of the worst elements of Christianity: the type that masquerades itself in [apparently] Jewish phraseology to attract Jews who otherwise wouldn't know the difference.

 

[Deeje]

The Jewish backstory for the book of Job makes much more sense. God is just about to give the Torah to the Jewish people on Mt. Sinai, and wants TheSatan distracted. It almost fails with the Golden Calf incident anyways, even without interference. They both know this of course.

I am not sure I completely understand what you are saying here, not being familiar with the "Jewish backstory".
I like to base my opinions on scripture....so what does the Bible say about this? Where does it say anything about distracting satan?

Why would God want satan distracted? He gave world rulership over to him so that he could prove his claims. (Luke 4: 5-6; 1 John 5:19)

In the book of Job, satan presents himself as bold as brass in among God's faithful angels. (Job 1:6; Job 2:1-2) It was a position that God permitted him to hold for the duration of his patience, and for the accomplishment of his purpose.....after which he was to confine satan and his hordes in a spiritual prison for 1,000 years of Messiah's reign. (Revelation 12:7-12; Revelation 20:1-3) If satan was working for God, why punish him and those who followed him into rebellion?

How is the golden calf incident even connected with Job's account?

 

[Deeje]

In general I recommend against quoting from the "Complete Jewish Bible" as it represents one of the worst elements of Christianity: the type that masquerades itself in [apparently] Jewish phraseology to attract Jews who otherwise wouldn't know the difference.

Please quote this passage from your preferred translation. (Job 2:3-5) Will it be much different from the CJB?

3And the Lord said to the Adversary, "Have you paid attention to My servant Job? For there is none like him in the earth, a sincere and upright man, God-fearing and shunning evil, and he still maintains his sincerity. Yet you enticed Me against him."

גוַיֹּאמֶר יְהֹוָה אֶל הַשָּׂטָן הֲשַׂמְתָּ לִבְּךָ אֶל עַבְדִּי אִיּוֹב כִּי אֵין כָּמֹהוּ בָּאָרֶץ אִישׁ תָּם וְיָשָׁר יְרֵא אֱלֹהִים וְסָר מֵרָע וְעֹדֶנּוּ מַחֲזִיק בְּתֻמָּתוֹ וַתְּסִיתֵנִי בוֹ לְבַלְּעוֹ חִנָּם:

4Now the Adversary replied to the Lord and said, "Skin for skin, and whatever a person has he will give for his life. דוַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת יְהֹוָה וַיֹּאמַר עוֹר בְּעַד עוֹר וְכֹל אֲשֶׁר לָאִישׁ יִתֵּן בְּעַד נַפְשׁוֹ:

5But, stretch forth Your hand now and touch his bones and his flesh, will he not blaspheme You to Your face?" האוּלָם שְׁלַח נָא יָדְךָ וְגַע אֶל עַצְמוֹ וְאֶל בְּשָׂרוֹ אִם לֹא אֶל פָּנֶיךָ יְבָרְכֶךָּ:

 

[Tumah]

Please quote this passage from your preferred translation. (Job 2:3-5) Will it be much different from the CJB?

3And the Lord said to the Adversary, "Have you paid attention to My servant Job? For there is none like him in the earth, a sincere and upright man, God-fearing and shunning evil, and he still maintains his sincerity. Yet you enticed Me against him."

גוַיֹּאמֶר יְהֹוָה אֶל הַשָּׂטָן הֲשַׂמְתָּ לִבְּךָ אֶל עַבְדִּי אִיּוֹב כִּי אֵין כָּמֹהוּ בָּאָרֶץ אִישׁ תָּם וְיָשָׁר יְרֵא אֱלֹהִים וְסָר מֵרָע וְעֹדֶנּוּ מַחֲזִיק בְּתֻמָּתוֹ וַתְּסִיתֵנִי בוֹ לְבַלְּעוֹ חִנָּם:

4Now the Adversary replied to the Lord and said, "Skin for skin, and whatever a person has he will give for his life. דוַיַּעַן הַשָּׂטָן אֶת יְהֹוָה וַיֹּאמַר עוֹר בְּעַד עוֹר וְכֹל אֲשֶׁר לָאִישׁ יִתֵּן בְּעַד נַפְשׁוֹ:

5But, stretch forth Your hand now and touch his bones and his flesh, will he not blaspheme You to Your face?" האוּלָם שְׁלַח נָא יָדְךָ וְגַע אֶל עַצְמוֹ וְאֶל בְּשָׂרוֹ אִם לֹא אֶל פָּנֶיךָ יְבָרְכֶךָּ:

Its not a matter of the translation as much as integrity.

Obviously I disagree with your interpretation no matter the translation as G-d clearly indicated to Satan to test Job's faith. So what follows doesn't ridicule G-d as it was expected. Aside from that, we see that since Satan had to get G-d's permission. There's no reason to read into that anything other than a servant. Except for external influences that might make you want to see something more.