God Sent Himself To Die On The Cross

[Trailblazer]

we could start with

Daniel 2:44​

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever,"
a kingdom is a form of government .a government that Jesus often would speak of .

I said: Show me where 'there will be a kingdom of God brought by Jesus is in the Bible.'

Daniel 2:44 says: “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people."

The verse says that God will set up a kingdom.
The verse does not say that Jesus will set up a kingdom.

Then we have to ask ourselves HOW God will set up a kingdom.

Certainly God will not come to earth and set it up since the Bible says that no one can see the face of God and live.
I believe that God set up a kingdom by sending His Messenger, Baha'u'llah, who revealed all that will be necessary for humans to build the kingdom of God on earth.

Matthew 6:10
Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth." he was showing to his apostles how to pray .if not real why would he even mention it ?? it will happen even as Daniel 2:44 promised it will happen.

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Thy is not referring to Jesus, it is referring to God the Father, so Jesus was asking us to pray for God's kingdom to come to earth.

It is already happening even as Daniel 2:44 promised it will happen. The kingdom of God/New World order is coming to earth.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 6-7

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 136-137

 

[cataway]

I said: Show me where 'there will be a kingdom of God brought by Jesus is in the Bible.'

Daniel 2:44 says: “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people."

The verse says that God will set up a kingdom.
The verse does not say that Jesus will set up a kingdom.

Then we have to ask ourselves HOW God will set up a kingdom.

Certainly God will not come to earth and set it up since the Bible says that no one can see the face of God and live.
I believe that God set up a kingdom by sending His Messenger, Baha'u'llah, who revealed all that will be necessary for humans to build the kingdom of God on earth.

Matthew 6
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Thy is not referring to Jesus, it is referring to God the Father, so Jesus was asking us to pray for God's kingdom to come to earth.

It is already happening even as Daniel 2:44 promised it will happen. The kingdom of God/New World order is coming to earth.

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 6-7

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 136-137

luke 1: 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.”

more info

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2020-may-jun/who-is-king-of-gods-kingdom/

 

[osgart]

People say how could God have sent his son to die on the cross. When you think about it, God sent himself because Jesus is God in the flesh.

No other way than a Roman cross? As a child the pictures of someone suffering extreme torment on a cross freaked me out. God being able to do all things chose the spill of His own blood by Roman hands. No other way of it? Where's the logic of that? Just forgive? Maybe, no?

 

[Trailblazer]

luke 1: 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.”i

You are absolutely correct. There will be no end to the kingdom of Jesus, but the kingdom of Jesus is in heaven, it will never be on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

No, Jesus is not going to rule over earth from heaven. There is nothing in the Bible that supports that belief.

So, when the angel in Luke 1 tells Mary that her Son, Jesus, will reign over the house of Jacob, this is just another way of saying that Jesus will reign over the house of Israel. Jesus is Israel's King, in other words. Son of David. That's the main emphasis of this passage. Dec 13, 2020
And He Will Reign - Community Bible Church


“In the Bible there are prophecies of the coming of Christ. The Jews still await the coming of the Messiah, and pray to God day and night to hasten His advent…….

The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57

 

[cataway]

No other way than a Roman cross? As a child the pictures of someone suffering extreme torment on a cross freaked me out. God being able to do all things chose the spill of His own blood by Roman hands. No other way of it? Where's the logic of that? Just forgive? Maybe, no?

only adulterated Christianity insists that it was a cross that Jesus dies on . far more likely a pole ,no cross bar near the top

 

[cataway]

You are absolutely correct. There will be no end to the kingdom of Jesus, but the kingdom of Jesus is in heaven, it will never be on earth.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

No, Jesus is not going to rule over earth from heaven. There is nothing in the Bible that supports that belief.

So, when the angel in Luke 1 tells Mary that her Son, Jesus, will reign over the house of Jacob, this is just another way of saying that Jesus will reign over the house of Israel. Jesus is Israel's King, in other words. Son of David. That's the main emphasis of this passage. Dec 13, 2020
And He Will Reign - Community Bible Church


“In the Bible there are prophecies of the coming of Christ. The Jews still await the coming of the Messiah, and pray to God day and night to hasten His advent…….

The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 54-57

what a better place to rule over the earth than from heaven

 

[Trailblazer]

what a better place to rule over the earth than from heaven

It might be a great place for Jesus to rule from if that is what God had intended.

 

[Balthazzar]

People say how could God have sent his son to die on the cross. When you think about it, God sent himself because Jesus is God in the flesh.

I guess that would be an accurate understanding in some ways. Do you ever get bored with things, feel like you need a change from the typical day to day? I think at some point in life it may come to be understood as something good (death, I mean) and although most of us view longevity as something to be desired, this doesn't equate to not being ready when the time comes after a long life, whether a great one or not so great one.


An age of rest and rejuvenation... Maybe that's why we keep the sabbath holy and honor a day of rest during the week. A short hiatus of sorts, a change from the typical "day to day", only in terms of eternal life.

 

[Jimmy]

I guess that would be an accurate understanding in some ways. Do you ever get bored with things, feel like you need a change from the typical day to day? I think at some point in life it may come to be understood as something good (death, I mean) and although most of us view longevity as something to be desired, this doesn't equate to not being ready when the time comes after a long life, whether a great one or not so great one.


An age of rest and rejuvenation... Maybe that's why we keep the sabbath holy and honor a day of rest during the week. A short hiatus of sorts, a change from the typical "day to day", only in terms of eternal life.

Change is good. Giving thanks for what you do have and can do is good. Life was meant to be lived. Death will come when it comes.

 

[F1fan]

you can call them Dick an Jane if you want.

I prefer Biff and Heather.

we are however told their names and anyone who has ever hear of them knows who it is we are talking about .

Just like we know of Frodo and Sam.

as for Adam being a prophet of any sort is a stretch of the imagination. by learning of Adam we then begin to learn of why he failed

Adam and Eve failed because they were designed to fail If God wanted them to obey he would have made them capable of obedience. He didn't. Even when A&E showed signs of obedience God sent the Serpent to tempt them in way they couldn't resist. God knew what he was doing.

and the reason for the need of Jesus, the Christ .

God is eitehr a sociopath or incompetent. He keeps needing to fix his creation, and the fixes never work. Look at the flood, it killed all but seven people and things went wrong on day 1 after the waters receded. And did the Allmighty God really have to kill a guy to absolve the sins of mankind?

if a person is not going to accept him and his kingdom the they may as well bend over an kiss their butt goodby .

There's no God that we can dicern as existing, so none to reject. What critical minds do, and those of other religions do passively, is reject the claims of Christianity. Not only are the concepts absurd, they are inconsistent with reality. Even your statement here repeats the exploitation of fear and ignorance that gets many believers. It means nothing to thinkers.

 

[Jimmy]

I prefer Biff and Heather.

Just like we know of Frodo and Sam.

Adam and Eve failed because they were designed to fail If God wanted them to obey he would have made them capable of obedience. He didn't. Even when A&E showed signs of obedience God sent the Serpent to tempt them in way they couldn't resist. God knew what he was doing.

God is eitehr a sociopath or incompetent. He keeps needing to fix his creation, and the fixes never work. Look at the flood, it killed all but seven people and things went wrong on day 1 after the waters receded. And did the Allmighty God really have to kill a guy to absolve the sins of mankind?

There's no God that we can dicern as existing, so none to reject. What critical minds do, and those of other religions do passively, is reject the claims of Christianity. Not only are the concepts absurd, they are inconsistent with reality. Even your statement here repeats the exploitation of fear and ignorance that gets many believers. It means nothing to thinkers.

Reality means different things to different people.

 

[cataway]

I prefer Biff and Heather.

Just like we know of Frodo and Sam.

Adam and Eve failed because they were designed to fail If God wanted them to obey he would have made them capable of obedience. He didn't. Even when A&E showed signs of obedience God sent the Serpent to tempt them in way they couldn't resist. God knew what he was doing.

God is eitehr a sociopath or incompetent. He keeps needing to fix his creation, and the fixes never work. Look at the flood, it killed all but seven people and things went wrong on day 1 after the waters receded. And did the Allmighty God really have to kill a guy to absolve the sins of mankind?

There's no God that we can dicern as existing, so none to reject. What critical minds do, and those of other religions do passively, is reject the claims of Christianity. Not only are the concepts absurd, they are inconsistent with reality. Even your statement here repeats the exploitation of fear and ignorance that gets many believers. It means nothing to thinkers.

hummm. you should of taken the 5th . testifying against your self is never a good thing

 

[F1fan]

Reality means different things to different people.

Those who acknowledge facts, and can distinguish that implausible concepts should not be judged true, and have reasoning skill, understand reality in a more real sense than those who have adopted some rigid religious framework. If you can defend your version of "reality" that is made up up your eligious belief, let's see it.

hummm. you should of taken the 5th . testifying against your self is never a good thing

Except your laws aren't known to be objectively true, and your prosecutor isn't known to be real, nor do your religious beliefs have any authority over free thinkers. You are free to live as if your "reality" includes the chaos of Christian concepts. But it ends with believers. Feel free to expalin how I am wrong. Use facts, not dogma.

 

[cataway]

Those who acknowledge facts, and can distinguish that implausible concepts should not be judged true, and have reasoning skill, understand reality in a more real sense than those who have adopted some rigid religious framework. If you can defend your version of "reality" that is made up up your eligious belief, let's see it.


Except your laws aren't known to be objectively true, and your prosecutor isn't known to be real, nor do your religious beliefs have any authority over free thinkers. You are free to live as if your "reality" includes the chaos of Christian concepts. But it ends with believers. Feel free to expalin how I am wrong. Use facts, not dogma.

no..
you will have to save your self .as there are no life lines for the antichrist

 

[Balthazzar]

Change is good. Giving thanks for what you do have and can do is good. Life was meant to be lived. Death will come when it comes.

I agree ... we have been set on a course to run the race that has been set before us, after which we will enter into that rest. So, we labor until that day comes. I believe this is a Hebrews 4 reference speaking accordingly about the sabbath day of rest, one which we typically honor weekly for the restoration and rejuvenation to begin yet another week of labor.

 

[F1fan]

no..
you will have to save your self .

In reality my natural inclination to question what others claim and say has saved me from being indocrinated. I was suspicious of Christianity at about 8 or 9, as the ideas just seemed dumb, and the conflict between my Baptist aunt and Catholic aunt didn't add up to the ideals of the religion. Something was fishy.

Oddly Christians save themselves withon their dogma, not Jesus. Christians claim that to be saved as a human we have to accept the gift of Jesus' sacrifice (of course he was arrested and executed, it wasn't his idea). Let's ignore that the Bible says that Jesus died for the sins of mankind, with no conditions. OK, so for a person to get salvation it depends on their own decision to accept it. God and Jesus have already done their work. They are on a beach somewhere minding their own business (they certainly aren't saving the lives of children dying of cancer). So what stands in the way of having salvation or not? Us. Once we decide we want salvation we become our own savior. We are who we should worship since we have delivered ourselves from damnation. God and Jesus? They are just the mechanisms, our own action is what brings us salvation.

as there are no life lines for the antichrist

I suggest evangelical Christians are anti-Christs, as it is them who believe in Jesus, yet live and believe contrary to what he taught. Look at yourself, you are judging me for not being convinced that a religion is true. Jesus taught not to judge others. Where in your posts is your compassion? Your love for your feloow humans?

Atheists get to reject the cliams made by Christians. Christians shouldn't reject the teachings of Jesus, yet many do. THAT is why Christianity fails, and why skeptics see the religion as flawed and a failure.

 

[Jimmy]

Those who acknowledge facts, and can distinguish that implausible concepts should not be judged true, and have reasoning skill, understand reality in a more real sense than those who have adopted some rigid religious framework. If you can defend your version of "reality" that is made up up your eligious belief, let's see it.


Except your laws aren't known to be objectively true, and your prosecutor isn't known to be real, nor do your religious beliefs have any authority over free thinkers. You are free to live as if your "reality" includes the chaos of Christian concepts. But it ends with believers. Feel free to expalin how I am wrong. Use facts, not dogma.

Look around. That’s all the proof I need.

 

[wellwisher]

Christianity says God (the Father) sent God (the Son) to sacrifice himself to God so that he can forgive us our sins and save us from himself (God's judgement). How can this make sense?

"The idea that God could only forgive our sins by having his son tortured to death as a scapegoat is surely, from an objective point of view, a deeply unpleasant idea. If God wanted to forgive us our sins, why didn't he just forgive them? Why did he have to have his son tortured?" (R. Dawkins)

Satan was still the Lord of the Earth at the time of Jesus. Satan was connected to law of good and evil. Law is from Satan. God never wanted Adam and Eve to know law, and he even punished them when they chose law and Satan; lost admission to paradise.

God sent his son, Jesus, to fix this situation. Since Jesus was the son of God, God knew that all they could do was kill his human body, but not extinguish his spirit. Jesus had a plan. Under the law, death is the ultimate penalty for violating the law. Once you pay that ultimate price one is no longer obligated to the law, since you are dead. So when Jesus paid the ultimate human price of death, since he was the son of God, he arose via his spirit and rejuvenated his body for a month or so. He was not longer under law, due to the legal theory of double jeopardy. Sin is only imputed where there is a law. Jesus was no longer under law, and with no law to define and make sins, there were no sins in Jesus. Jesus was the end of law and sin for all those who believe; faith.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Satan was still condoned in Heaven at the time of Jesus; spiritual forces of evil in heavenly places. This double jeopardy loophole causes a political debate in heaven, where Satan; evil forces were still allowed. The debate over law and double jeopardy got heated, and then led to a war, until Satan was thrown from Heaven, by Micheal the Archangel and his forces.

Revelation 12:8-10 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down— that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan,the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled tothe earth, and his angels with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down—he who accuses them day and night before our God.…

Satan had been condoned in Heaven the entire Old Testament. He had been placed in charge of the humans since the time of Adam and Eve. He was the originator of law; tree of knowledge of good and evil, which by being condoned in heaven, had divine sanction. But Satan was a bully constantly complaining about the humans so he could get God's permission to punish them. This toxic mismanagement style needed fixing, which is why Jesus was sent to throw sand in the gears of law, and lead to the ouster of Satan in Heaven.

With Satan no longer sanctioned by heaven, those same laws were no longer condoned by God. There is a new Sheriff in town; Jesus. But as history would show laws got worse and also became used for evil purposes; law fare.

 

[F1fan]

Look around. That’s all the proof I need.

It's proof of what? That you have vision? That things exist outside of your body? Expalin what you mean, and try not to be too vague. Use facts. Use reason.

 

[Muffled]

People say how could God have sent his son to die on the cross. When you think about it, God sent himself because Jesus is God in the flesh.

In one place He says He is sent in another He says it is a visitation.