Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
What do you mean? Whats the connection this question is related to my statement?
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God talking
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
What do you mean? Whats the connection this question is related to my statement?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Are there specific and direct prophecies that historians would refer to in their history books the sycrnocities are related to god? Can anyone see the two events as a prophecy without being a believer?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The link includes over 60 prophecies we can discuss, if you'd like to pick one.
I'm highly respectful in conversations, particularly when not talking to Metis.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Yes, because the Bible is a series of dozens of history books.
Many atheists have told me, "So what if the Bible predicted the future hundreds of times? THAT doesn't prove God wrote the Bible!"
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The bible DOES prove god. You just have to make sense of how. We cant read minds. If the bible is a fact there should be a lot of history to back up the -existence- of god. I have yet to hear a historian say "god exists because we found what we think is the noahs arc."
Its with any topic. You cant make a statement and expect us to understand you. Go deeper.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The link includes over 60 prophecies we can discuss, if you'd like to pick one.
I'm highly respectful in conversations, particularly when not talking to Metis.
Sorry. Metis and I agree on history and extreme apprecation of the Catholic Church when it comes to christian history and the bible you use. So you wont get anything different. Sounds like personal issues you have with @metis not historical and most definately not spiritual.
Name a prophecy that is recognized in history as a prophecy and not related syncronized events.
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BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
No, it's a spiritual issue, because I understand the Bible and the RCC to teach two different gospels: either trusting Jesus saves, as in John 3:16, "whoever trusts me will never perish", or works and the RCC help save. I don't think Jesus Christ needs mass or my rosary or anything else to perfect my soul. I think the cross was enough.
A prophecy I recognize from ancient history is how it is predicted to the day when Christ would be crucified for sin. You said you love the Bible, as do I, so why are you challenging the inerrancy of Bible prophecy?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I notice you are not understanding nor finding sense in what I say.
Catholic bible: John 3:16
Catechism: USCCB John 3
In the service of the Lord, work not halfheartedly but with conscientiousness and an eager spirit." Romans 12:10
In brotherly love let your feelings of deep affection for one another come to expression and regard others as more important than yourself.
What does the rosery have to do with salvation????
Please read my posts. I said I have appreciation for the Catholic Church. I read the whole bible. They compliment each other. I will add reading the bible let me understand the Church and the sacraments. No protestant non luturgical church has ever explained the bible and devotion as the rescources provided by the Church.
As for metis, I agree with what he says. You dont need to be defensive. Just read the posts and address the post not the "postee". Debate not argument.
Catholic bible: John 3:16
Catechism: USCCB John 3
In the service of the Lord, work not halfheartedly but with conscientiousness and an eager spirit." Romans 12:10
In brotherly love let your feelings of deep affection for one another come to expression and regard others as more important than yourself.
What does the rosery have to do with salvation????
Please read my posts. I said I have appreciation for the Catholic Church. I read the whole bible. They compliment each other. I will add reading the bible let me understand the Church and the sacraments. No protestant non luturgical church has ever explained the bible and devotion as the rescources provided by the Church.
As for metis, I agree with what he says. You dont need to be defensive. Just read the posts and address the post not the "postee". Debate not argument.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist said: ↑
"But you must start with god."
After reading the above remarks I asked the above question. Please
If you don't like it, kindly don't give the answer please.
Regards
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Thats confusing. What are you trying to say??
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I agree, let's discuss the facts impersonally.
The Roman church recommends many things, not in the scriptures, to help us inherit salvation and/or reduce time spent in purgatory. If you disagree, please explain the Catholic gospel to me so I understand it better.
Thank you.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I think purgatory is the only thing in RC I havent read in scriptures. You must understand, the Church came way before protestesm and bible only. CC in general not specifc to romans, have Always preserved christian history. Its a sacred tradition church. Its pure christianity. Jesus followed jewish teachings of moses. Tne apostles continued jesus' ministry of the church Before the split. The CC is not specifically roman.
You dont need to believe in purgatory to be saved. To be saved through the body and in his body you need to
1. Be baptised in water and in the spirit of christ, his father, via the holy spirit by faith
2. Repentence. You confess your sins to the body so you can be part of the body in apology, thus with christ, thus with his father. Its all about the body of christ which is christ himself.
3. Communion. When one is baptized and repents, they commune at the lords table. Since communion doesnt end with jesus meal, they feel communion, as per the word itself, brings the body wthin, through, jesus himself via the core meal, the soul of christ, the eucharist.
Salvation for all trinitarian christians is through baptism
To worship in christ body you need a church (not specifically CC). To commune in the physical unity of his body, you need the Church.
Im not an indocrinate so when I read the bible I saw connections not disassociations. I didnt look for flaws.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please quote from Jesus to support one's assertions/claims mentioned above.
Regards
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Ha. That'll take a bit to find on RF. I posted it many many times. It went unchallenged. I'll post it if you want to talk about them.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please go ahead but please don't give a list, in stead please quote one verse that most suits with one's point of view.
Regards
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Please don't emphasize unless it's truly necessary.
1. Be baptized in water and in the spirit of christ, his father, via the holy spirit by faith
Catholics (I can't speak for other denominations), believe that in order to be saved in the body of christ, you must be baptized both in water and the spirit. The water is necessary because it mimics the former ways of baptism before jesus. The latter is necessary because you cannot be saved into the body of christ but with the spirit itself. You need both.
Water: OT
Spirit: NT
Both for salvation because of the communion between old and new onto salvation.
James 5:16 Praying to each other
Mathew 25:40 Whatever you do to your brother, you do to me/jesus
3. Communion. When one is baptized and repents, they commune at the lords table. Since communion doesnt end with jesus meal, they feel communion, as per the word itself, brings the body wthin, through, jesus himself via the core meal, the soul of christ, the eucharist.
Communion
Eucharist
Meal
John 6:53-57
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Compared to Sacrifice Chart
Catholics repeat the sacrifice of the OT from the lambs as offerings of repentance as they do jesus being the "lamb of god". The priests offers the lamb to god so that there is a forgiveness of sins for the body of christ. Everyone consumes of the body and blood and, through them, they are saved.
In order to be fully in the body of christ, one must be baptized, repent, and commune.
Baptized in spirit and water
Repent to body of believers and god
Commune between like believers unto god through christ
I did it long on purpose. I'm not one to just quote verses without context and point behind them; or, we'd be talking over semantics for hours.
1. Be baptized in water and in the spirit of christ, his father, via the holy spirit by faith
Catholics (I can't speak for other denominations), believe that in order to be saved in the body of christ, you must be baptized both in water and the spirit. The water is necessary because it mimics the former ways of baptism before jesus. The latter is necessary because you cannot be saved into the body of christ but with the spirit itself. You need both.
Water: OT
Spirit: NT
Both for salvation because of the communion between old and new onto salvation.
2. Repentance. You confess your sins to the body so you can be part of the body in apology, thus with christ, thus with his father. Its all about the body of christ which is christ himself.
James 5:16 Praying to each other
Mathew 25:40 Whatever you do to your brother, you do to me/jesus
3. Communion. When one is baptized and repents, they commune at the lords table. Since communion doesnt end with jesus meal, they feel communion, as per the word itself, brings the body wthin, through, jesus himself via the core meal, the soul of christ, the eucharist.
Communion
Eucharist
Meal
John 6:53-57
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
Compared to Sacrifice Chart
Catholics repeat the sacrifice of the OT from the lambs as offerings of repentance as they do jesus being the "lamb of god". The priests offers the lamb to god so that there is a forgiveness of sins for the body of christ. Everyone consumes of the body and blood and, through them, they are saved.
In order to be fully in the body of christ, one must be baptized, repent, and commune.
Baptized in spirit and water
Repent to body of believers and god
Commune between like believers unto god through christ
I did it long on purpose. I'm not one to just quote verses without context and point behind them; or, we'd be talking over semantics for hours.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I have read multiple things in RCC not in scriptures, above all, that salvation is by trust Jesus, not by repentance, water baptism or communion. I find Jesus and His cross mightier than water "which removes dirt" as the Bible states.
I find it disturbing that if you attend where the Lord's table is considered vital, that the RCC expressly forbids the Lord's table to hundreds of millions of the Lord's people.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I honestly think the gold is doing something to mask what catholics actually believe per their bible and tradition
You have trust in god before you repent, commune, and be born again. These things mean nothing without first having belief and trust in gods grace and his gift of salvation.
Baptism (salvation water or not depending on the church) or being born again is essential to salvation. You are giving yourself to god so you can be saved. You are physically acting in a spiritual act of trust, love, and grace.
You are expressing your love for god with all your body as well as your mind and heart. Nothings excluded.
Repentence is all throughout the bible. Like the first two and communion, there has always been a meal after sacrifice.
The RRC does not forbid it. They have it three to four times daily and four times sunday.
It just means people come together as one church to worship together. The idea is during worship, what holds people together is christ. Instead of just having individual devotion, one has it it with the body of christ (more than one person, christ is present-thats a church)
Gold, roseries, types of eucharist (grape juice, crackers, leven bread, wine) is no mere the point than these things bring people together as a church; one body of christ.
Baptism isnt baptism without trust in god
Communion isnt communion if you feel you are not one with brothers and sisters in christ
Repentence isnt repentence if you repent to a priest and not to god
Scripture reading means nothing without trust in god
These are the practices of the RCC
Whats beautiful is they actually --act-- in there trust in god. They worship and trust god together as one unit, community, family.
If gold blinds you to their trust in god (only) thats on you.
The catechism, their bible, and their mass all points to trust in god
By action
By word
By faith
By grace
The RCC actually puts more into worship as one body of many limbs than I see from any modern protestant church.
Episcopalian
Lutheran
Presbyterian
Othorodox
Roman catholic
Are all liturgical denominations. They all act in faith not just have trust.
Its not specifically Roman. I think thats a historical pet peeve which is understandable. Now we can actually understand the church without getting killed for disbelief.
That is if people put away their bias and commune as one church.
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@BilliardsBall
I read both protestant and catholic bibles, been to JW sermons, baptist (southern and nothern), Episcopal. Prysb. and Pentecostal. UU (broke from the church)
Lutergical churches do best with communal worship, devotion, resources for strengthening faith, reading the gospel together. Prys. Pen. churches do well with more informal family like with food afterwards in some churches and basic socialization with like members after sermon. JW does well in bible study though I havent read their bible before.
If I went off devotion and being one with christ, Id say catholic. If I want to have a family like sermon, Id go to say pent or prysb. If I wanted more bible study, Id go to JW
But no one wants to come together as one Church.
Im sure JW's bible says come together in christ
The catholic bible existed long before the one you probably using
Go beyond the gold.
Catholics do have trust in god
I read both protestant and catholic bibles, been to JW sermons, baptist (southern and nothern), Episcopal. Prysb. and Pentecostal. UU (broke from the church)
Lutergical churches do best with communal worship, devotion, resources for strengthening faith, reading the gospel together. Prys. Pen. churches do well with more informal family like with food afterwards in some churches and basic socialization with like members after sermon. JW does well in bible study though I havent read their bible before.
If I went off devotion and being one with christ, Id say catholic. If I want to have a family like sermon, Id go to say pent or prysb. If I wanted more bible study, Id go to JW
But no one wants to come together as one Church.
Im sure JW's bible says come together in christ
The catholic bible existed long before the one you probably using
Go beyond the gold.
Catholics do have trust in god
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@BilliardsBall
This is short. Something I just thought about
Can you provide two or three verses that are different both in content and in context from the Catholic Bible and the "Protestant" one?
Not the missing books protestants have, but something very clear-cut.
One common debate is that the second commandment is missing in the catholic bible. This is so untrue that even history would laugh at this.
Are there others I haven't heard before?
(Even those not in the Catechism of the Catholic Church)
This is short. Something I just thought about
Can you provide two or three verses that are different both in content and in context from the Catholic Bible and the "Protestant" one?
Not the missing books protestants have, but something very clear-cut.
One common debate is that the second commandment is missing in the catholic bible. This is so untrue that even history would laugh at this.
Are there others I haven't heard before?
(Even those not in the Catechism of the Catholic Church)