waitasec
Veteran Member
see a person who believes "jesus" never existed can follow everything you posted...
why can't they be a christian?
the 1st commandment is left to individual interpretation...
actually all of it is
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Guilty By Association?
- Thread starter ChristineES
- Start date
see a person who believes "jesus" never existed can follow everything you posted...
why can't they be a christian?
the 1st commandment is left to individual interpretation...
actually all of it is
I've been called a Christian before for saying I follow Jesus for the essence of what he is, and not because of the title of God Incarnate.
That's okay. I giggle at the wrench thrown in to the perspective since I'm a practicing Tibetan Buddhist, but they can say and think what they want.
You have a real unusual way of looking at things.
But, keep in mind that those aren't the only commands- they were just some examples. But when you're scanning the Bible looking for those verses you don't like, why don't you try reading the Gospels as a whole- you probably still won't like it, but at least you see it all in context. One thing I have noticed in life: Negative people always see everything as negative. Positive people always see everything as positive. Most of us fall in between, but some people are more negative or more positive than others.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Actually you're putting a bit too much stock in that definition of "musician." There's a hell of a lot of difference between this:
and this:
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Except you've totally twisted them by implying that those words are Jesus' instructions to His followers. This is a quote from a parable. The person speaking in the parable is a ruthless king - NOT JESUS, and not meant to symbolize Jesus.
The Parable of the Ten Minas
11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a] ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’
14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’
15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’
17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’
18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’
19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’
20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’
22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’
24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
Luke 19 NIV - Zacchaeus the Tax Collector - Jesus - Bible Gateway
We don't even have the power or ability to "forgive people who speak blasphemies against the Holy Ghost." That's not an act that is perpetrated on us, so we have nothing to do with forgiving it. And even if we did or didn't "forgive" it - so what - how does that affect anyone whatsoever?
Hey, I don't know what goes on in your head, but it seems pretty easy to me to avoid "blaspheming the Holy Ghost" anyway. I can't even imagine a scenario that would involve doing so.
It all has to do with reading things in context.
People see what they want to see, and they interpret things as a reflection of their motives and their heart.
Sometimes people who aren't Christians, act more the way Jesus told us to better than those who are Christians. And Buddhism is about 65% similar to Christianity.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Actually you're putting a bit too much stock in that definition of "musician." There's a hell of a lot of difference between this:
and this:
ha ha...
:biglaugh:
seriously though, no there isn't.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Seriously though - yes there is.
OMG who's a musician and who's not? If they create music and make money doing so, are they a musician?
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waitasec
Veteran Member
You have a real unusual way of looking at things.
One thing I have noticed in life: Negative people always see everything as negative. Positive people always see everything as positive. Most of us fall in between, but some people are more negative or more positive than others.
everything in the bible is up to individual interpretation.
that is why i believe christians cannot be defined.
calling yourself a "christian" means you associate your self with the entire vague concept of christianity. kathryn provided a definition of christian...'a person who follows jesus teachings'...that is still too vague, as these teachings are up to personal interpretation
here is a more simpler way of looking at it.
i am a cuban
my sons father is swedish and finish
which makes my son a cuban viking.
if my son has a child who's mother is indian, my grandchild would be associated with cuban, swedish, finish and indian ancestry while i am only associated with my cuban ancestry.
blackout
Violet.
And when I used to describe my own personal interpretation of Christianity,
I was told over and over again that I wasn't a Christian at all.
Finally I just handed them back their title.
Honestly, it's just a word that's really not of any great importance to me.
I am who I am.
That is enough.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
everything in the bible is up to individual interpretation.
that is why i believe christians cannot be defined.
calling yourself a "christian" means you associate your self with the entire vague concept of christianity. kathryn provided a definition of christian...'a person who follows jesus teachings'...that is still too vague, as these teachings are up to personal interpretation
here is a more simpler way of looking at it.
i am a cuban
my sons father is swedish and finish
which makes my son a cuban viking.
if my son has a child who's mother is indian, my grandchild would be associated with cuban, swedish, finish and indian ancestry while i am only associated with my cuban ancestry.
Nationalities aren't hard to define though. What country are you a citizen of? See, it's not so difficult. Even if you have dual citizenship, it's still easily definable.
waitasec
Veteran Member
ok, even more simpler...
i say i am a woman...are you going to confuse me with being a man?
blackout
Violet.
Scope of ability and general all around musical fluency and knowledge
does IMO make for the difference between a Musician and .....
a spoon player,
a cellist (person who plays the cello)
a singer,
a stage entertainer whose show includes music,
a DJ,
a rapper,
someone who reads and plays notated piano music...
etc etc etc etc.
Not to say that any of these people might not ALSO be at the level of "Musician",
but certainly there is no reason to assume that any of them are.
My 9 year old daughter can sing and accompany herself on the piano/keyboard--
at a gig quality level. And she learns them now faster and faster.
This does not make her a musician.
She is able to do this because I AM a musician
and I teach her how.
I show her how, and I teach her how music is put together--
how it works.
Also, of course, she practices with great zeal,
paying attention to detail in both her vocals and her chording/playing.
Still there are many people who might hear her and call her a musician already.
I would call her a budding musician.
But she has a long long way to go
to have earned the title "Musician".
Anyway, comparing a skilled profession
that takes years of focused dedication to accomplish
with the 'claiming' of a belief system
well, it's not really a workable comparison
in any way I can see.
(though the discussion just proves again
that 'titles' ... "words" .... mean different things
to different people. So it is.)
does IMO make for the difference between a Musician and .....
a spoon player,
a cellist (person who plays the cello)
a singer,
a stage entertainer whose show includes music,
a DJ,
a rapper,
someone who reads and plays notated piano music...
etc etc etc etc.
Not to say that any of these people might not ALSO be at the level of "Musician",
but certainly there is no reason to assume that any of them are.
My 9 year old daughter can sing and accompany herself on the piano/keyboard--
at a gig quality level. And she learns them now faster and faster.
This does not make her a musician.
She is able to do this because I AM a musician
and I teach her how.
I show her how, and I teach her how music is put together--
how it works.
Also, of course, she practices with great zeal,
paying attention to detail in both her vocals and her chording/playing.
Still there are many people who might hear her and call her a musician already.
I would call her a budding musician.
But she has a long long way to go
to have earned the title "Musician".
Anyway, comparing a skilled profession
that takes years of focused dedication to accomplish
with the 'claiming' of a belief system
well, it's not really a workable comparison
in any way I can see.
(though the discussion just proves again
that 'titles' ... "words" .... mean different things
to different people. So it is.)
waitasec
Veteran Member
i agree. if words have different meanings then one shouldn't be surprised to be associated with things that word is associated with.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
ok, even more simpler...
i say i am a woman...are you going to confuse me with being a man?
The point isn't even really how other people define you. The point is - how do you define yourself?
You have argued that Christians are guilty by association on this forum recently. And yet then you turn around and say that Christianity is too hard to define. How can a person be guilty by association if their association cannot even be defined?
My point is that people are usually NOT guilty by association - unless that very association is illegal (for instance, an active duty military person cannot also work for the Republican Party or represent the Republican Party at a public event).
But I am really confused - what exactly is YOUR point?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Interesting.
You know, I am a woman. But I cannot be accused of having PMS. That would be ridiculous and I simply cannot be categorized with women who suffer from PMS, because it's impossible for me to suffer from it.
waitasec
Veteran Member
that is naive.
because when someone says i am a christian
we've got fred phelps on one side of the spectrum and moderates on the other side.
why do people want to associate themselves with anything that isn't definable?
waitasec
Veteran Member
PMS is a condition that only women can get.
a woman is a mother sister and a daughter
those are the specific labels one can associate with the word woman
and ALL women are daughters.