Hamas must be eradicated

[Little Dragon]

I am not talking about Jesus. I am talking about the arrival of the messiah which if you did not know, is part of Judaic belief.

I should not have said return...I should have said arrival. Momentary confusion. Apologies @Bthoth

 

[setarcos]

Nazis blame Jews for everything, not normal people.

That seems to be in reversal.
Now we've got so called "normal people" saying "Now we know why Hitler did what he did." And these people aren't Nazis.
It scares me to think that its becoming "normal" for people to express their frustrations in such ways.

Jews and Israel are not interchangeable definitions,

I could argue that they are. All radical Muslims if not all Muslims equate the two. And most Arabs in general equate Israel as a "Jewish" construction.
As I've told another here...Eight in Ten Israeli's are Jewish and those currently in government are majority Jewish.

many highly orthodox Jews are even opposed to the existence of the modern state of Israel, since it is not the true Israel.

That is the minority view of a particular Jewish sect.

That Israel will be created only when the "true" messiah returns.

The majority view is that when the true messiah arises, "not returns", then he will conquer all of Israel's enemies once and for all and rule over Israel in eternal peace.

Many Jews do not view Israel's recent actions and retaliations with approval.

That's to be expected since individual opinions vary even within a particular group.
I'm sure not too many governing bodies are in total agreement with how very difficult situations should be handled.

 

[Little Dragon]

The majority view is that when the true messiah arises, "not returns", then he will conquer all of Israel's enemies once and for all and rule over Israel in eternal peace.

Yes I meant arrival, sorry, a momentary lapse. I had already corrected myself before you posted.
Nice fantasy though.

 

[Little Dragon]

Now we've got so called "normal people" saying "Now we know why Hitler did what he did." And these people aren't Nazis.

Yes they are.

 

[Little Dragon]

That is the minority view of a particular Jewish sect.

Even so. It is what it is.

 

[Little Dragon]

I could argue that they are.

An easily rebutted argument, since all Jews do not live in Israel, only a minority in fact, also as you have pointed out, Israel has a non Jewish population too.
There is an association, sure.

 

[Bthoth]

I should not have said return...I should have said arrival. Momentary confusion. Apologies @Bthoth

No need brother.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I have to disagree here too. I think the international community tried to resolve the hostilities that already existed in the region..

Yes .. by the time that Jewish immigration was spiraling out of control..
..but not before. It all started with UK being given a mandate by the International community
after WWI. The Zionists were already lobbying for power in the 19th. century.

They didn't create the mess, the mess was already there between the Arabs and the Jews.

Rubbish! There was no major problem between Arabs and Jews in the Ottoman period.
Islam views Jews as "the people of the book" i.e. recognises them as following a previous prophet

..whereas Jews view Christians and Muslims as .. as what, exactly?

Did they solve it? I agree, no they didn't. I think the only ones that can would be the Jews and the Arabs.

Hmm .. it doesn't look that way to me .. what is the proportion "Arabs" and "Jews" in the world?
..and is the issue even about Arab v Jew?

What problem?

I would have though that was obvious.
Do you not experience deja-vous every time trouble flares up around Jerusalem?

That Israel exists and shouldn't?

No. It is well past that point.
Call it Israel .. call it Palestine .. why the importance of a name?
I see many nations in the world, changing their name .. but the people governed, do not change.

The problem as I see it is they are stuck in an endless cycle of Israel defending its right to exist and the Arabs offensive goal of destroying that right.

Right .. so what must change? Attitudes, and governance.
..but it can't be all one-sided.

No Arab nation in the middle east exists today that wasn't itself a result of hostile aggression and annexation of some peoples into another's dominating forces.

Quelle surprise, if it were true. The World wars had victors. It wasn't the Muslims.
Which is fine .. why should they always win wars .. we are all human with flaws regardless
of creed.
G-d decrees what He wills.

..but it is all temporary .. and G-d does not like oppression .. but due to the global
financial system, many of us can't see the truth of the situation. The "haves" want to continue
having, whatever the cost. Isn't that always the case?
Why did believers in G-d want to kill their prophets/messiahs 2000 years ago?

Israel exists....Arabs need to get over it..

That is not a diplomatic attitude .. it is inflammatory "get over it"

Those middle eastern countries can't even treat their own people with dignity and respect.

I shall attempt to ignore ad hominem.

 

[icehorse]

"

Those middle eastern countries can't even treat their own people with dignity and respect.

muhammad_isa: "I shall attempt to ignore ad hominem."

As I understand it, Arabs living in Israel have - by far - the most personal freedoms and liberties of any Arabs in the ME. Is that wrong?

 

[metis]

"

muhammad_isa: "I shall attempt to ignore ad hominem."

As I understand it, Arabs living in Israel have - by far - the most personal freedoms and liberties of any Arabs in the ME. Is that wrong?

I've been in Israel twice, including spending some time in the West Bank, and there it's generally OK. Gaza, otoh, is another story for obvious reasons.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course it does...at least the Arabs think so.

Along with all sentient beings who aren't
religious fundie pro Israel fanatic.

You know, over here in the states we put people in jail for terroristic threats. Why do you think that is?
So over there...."We're gonna attack you, kill you, do all we can to eliminate all of you from the face of the earth!" And they continuously try.

I agree that both Hamas & Israeli
leaders & soldiers belong in prison.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the key word here is "existence". The Israeli's want it.

Everyone wants it.

The representatives of the Palestinians don't.

Well, this shows there's no common ground.

 

[Truthseeker]

Along with all sentient beings who aren't
religious fundie pro Israel fanatic.

I agree that both Hamas & Israeli
leaders & soldiers belong in prison.

I agree except Israeli soldiers are in a tough situation. If they disobey, the consequences aren't good for them. It depends on the soldier of course.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree except Israeli soldiers are in a tough situation. If they disobey, the consequences aren't good for them. It depends on the soldier of course.

Don't obey orders to commit war crimes.
Obey or disobey...both have consequences.

 

[Truthseeker]

That is true for practically every nation on Earth.
My nation England, is the result of hostile aggression and annexation, by the Normans, against the Saxons, in 1066. For example.

Not to mention the the Saxons driving the Celts into Wales and Scotland. By the way, I've traced my ancestry to William the Conqueror. That is not to say I approve of him. I'm an American but I am just about all British Isles in ancestry, especially English.

 

[Truthseeker]

Don't obey orders to commit war crimes.
Obey or disobey...both have consequences.

It depends on whether they commit war crimes. I have no idea at this point how many soldiers commit war crimes. But many Israeli Air Force members do. That's where the majority of war crimes are committed, I do believe.

But never mind me, frankly I don't want to know who commits war crimes, it's not up to me to decide. It's a horrible situation, that's what I do know. It's a terrible time on planet earth.

 

[Revoltingest]

It depends on whether they commit war crimes.

Of course.
Not all orders are.

I have no idea at this point how many soldiers commit war crimes. But many Israeli Air Force members do. That's where the majority of war crimes are committed, I do believe.

But never mind me, frankly I don't want to know who commits war crimes, it's not up to me to decide. It's a horrible situation, that's what I do know. It's a terrible time on planet earth.

It's a pretty good time here in Revoltistan.
Although adventures in dentistry are
making things more interesting than I like.

 

[Little Dragon]

Not to mention the the Saxons driving the Celts into Wales and Scotland. By the way, I've traced my ancestry to William the Conqueror. That is not to say I approve of him. I'm an American but I am just about all British Isles in ancestry, especially English.

I am actually only a quarter British by ethnicity, I am also of German and Russian and Norwegian descent. I am in short, European.

 

[Brickjectivity]

"

muhammad_isa: "I shall attempt to ignore ad hominem."

As I understand it, Arabs living in Israel have - by far - the most personal freedoms and liberties of any Arabs in the ME. Is that wrong?

As mentioned in the video you posted, Israel is the only non-apartheid state in the region or least like an apartheid state. Citizens are allowed to be of any religion and have citizenship, participate in government, own land, hold any government position and vote. I have read posters here accuse it of being apartheid, but it is ironically very equal compared to surrounding states.

The settlers are indeed pushing people out and seizing property, and the IDF is supporting them. USA protests against this somewhat weakly, but US citizens are divided over whether it matters much here. We are far away, and its been 70 years with the arabs continually refusing to put down roots and establish a state. The UN has been trying to push statehood upon Gaza and West Bank for all this time, but Gaza and WB seem to feel guilt about it for religious reasons. The 'Settlers' are Israel's answer: encroachment. I have said in the past that to me this makes sense, because if nothing else it guarantees an eventual end to conflict. It gives a reason to consider accepting a two state solution and a timeframe that isn't just paperwork. It applies pressure that the UN cannot apply.

I don't know what you think about settler activity, but its clearly an attempt to force Gaza and West Bank to consider the UN two-state idea. It is aggressive. It is sneaky, and it is one of the few things that may actually cause a two state solution to become possible. Some posters here have labeled it oppression. It has the goal of a two-state solution which the arabs in the region have opposed continually from the beginning. Essentially the land is a bribe to get them to overlook having Jews in the region. If they want the land they must agree to having two states. Israel is in a position to keep taking more land until they do agree.

Some Israeli administrations have discouraged strong leadership in Gaza, interfered by supporting factions. Its a little hazy, but it looks like Netanyahu early on decided (correctly) that Gaza and West Bank were never serious about accepting the UN resolution to form a state. He got the message after the first few refusals to complete negotiations. Maybe he has fumbled by (decades ago) sponsoring Hamas, a very nasty party. They really are just balls out nuts crazy. He could not have predicted how they'd proceed, but he should have tried to back intelligent and educated people (Fatah) even if they seemed more dangerous. Hamas, as we can see now, is just barbarous with a thin glamour of governmental facade.

 

[icehorse]

I'd never heard that "settler's" strategy laid out so clearly and explicitly. I want to think about it, but on first blush, it makes a lot of sense, thanks.