Hamas must be eradicated

[icehorse]

What is this supposed to mean?

Based on post #97, I think @Revoltingest should be the ME's landlord

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think that modern technology, from the printing press to the search engine, has arguably marked out the production of a seriously more tangible from of history, yes, if that it was you're driving at. We don't have any video footage of Genghis Khan or his armies, so in a sense, there is layer, or many layers, of imagination that irrevocably have to work as your epistemological elevator toward understanding such things.

True. Ghengis is a definite historical figure though unquestionably.. His existence is not debatable nor is Alexander's. Confucius existence is questionable as is Socrates They are in a similar historical category to Jesus. Jesus has a bigger problem, because there ought to be more records of him. What excuses Jesus is his intention to lie low. His followers do not try to overthrow a government. Nevertheless a mythical Jesus would have value just as a mythical Confucius or mythical Socrates. The problem is they produce ideas not war.

 

[Little Dragon]

The world has left it to Israel to perform this task, and much of the world complains about how Israel is going about it

May I ask a question?

Imagine Hamas fighters were hiding under and around Israeli cities and towns, would the same METHOD as you call it, be applicable?
Would bombing the **** out of them? Be acceptable to you?

 

[icehorse]

May I ask a question?

Imagine Hamas fighters were hiding under and around Israeli cities and towns, would the same METHOD as you call it, be applicable?
Would bombing the **** out of them? Be acceptable to you?

First off I don't think that's what the IDF is doing. Second, I think Israeli citizens would heed the IDF's warnings. Third, to some degree - even if it's a small degree - the Palestinians are somewhat complicit in Hamas's behaviors.

 

[Little Dragon]

First off I don't think that's what the IDF is doing. Second, I think Israeli citizens would heed the IDF's warnings. Third, to some degree - even if it's a small degree - the Palestinians are somewhat complicit in Hamas's behaviors.

That is exactly what they are doing, over 10,000 Palestinians missing or dead. Now as for 2, Would the routes out of those Israeli towns be bombed too? Because that is what happened. Some warning. "We're going to kill you and there is nowhere to run". 3 is the most mindless answer so far. You do realize that the Palestinians are greater victims than the Israelis, of Hamas. They haven't been able to vote since 2006. Their children, have never voted, but died anyway. Hamas routinely oppress torture and execute Palestinians. You comments are so vile so disgusting, I am considering the nuclear option.

 

[Little Dragon]

First off I don't think that's what the IDF is doing

Who cares what you think they are doing?

Answer the hypothetical question...or don't. If you won't, then we are done.

 

[Sargonski]

Oh I see, you think they’re a terrorist organization but they’re doing a good thing by fighting the oppressive Israelis. Gotcha.

While the freedom fighters in Gaza surly they have the right to self defence against the - as you say - oppressive Israeli's .... I don't think fighting at this point is a good thing .. a Cease fire is what is needed to put a halt to the Ethnic Cleansing operation in gaza .. and to stop the cleansing going on in the other occupied territories.

 

[icehorse]

That is exactly what they are doing, over 10,000 Palestinians missing or dead. Now as for 2, Would the routes out of those Israeli towns be bombed too? Because that is what happened. Some warning. "We're going to kill you and there is nowhere to run". 3 is the most mindless answer so far. You do realize that the Palestinians are greater victims than the Israelis, of Hamas. They haven't been able to vote since 2006. Their children, have never voted, but died anyway. Hamas routinely oppress torture and execute Palestinians. You comments are so vile so disgusting, I am considering the nuclear option.

Okay, so let's look at your claim that the Palestinians are greater victims. So why has that been allowed to continue for all these years? Why has no one stepped in? And why haven't the Palestinians themselves revolted against Hamas? Why is the only acceptable solution letting Israel take the brunt of Hamas's terrorism? Why hasn't Jordan stepped in to help their fellow Muslims? Why hasn't Egypt stepped in?

 

[Little Dragon]

Okay, so let's look at your claim that the Palestinians are greater victims. So why has that been allowed to continue for all these years? Why has no one stepped in? And why haven't the Palestinians themselves revolted against Hamas? Why is the only acceptable solution letting Israel take the brunt of Hamas's terrorism? Why hasn't Jordan stepped in to help their fellow Muslims? Why hasn't Egypt stepped in?

Why do all sorts of terrible things continue to persist? This is not a very reasonable argument. I cannot explain the entire geopolitical situation. However what exactly could they do? These nearby Muslim nations. Start a war with Israel? What would you suggest they do?
Maybe the West could have done something, the ones with all the power and influence.

 

[Little Dragon]

Okay, so let's look at your claim that the Palestinians are greater victims.

Clearly they are, thousands have died in the Israeli onslaught, thanks to Hamas, bringing down this horror upon them.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Why do all sorts of terrible things continue to persist? This is not a very reasonable argument. I cannot explain the entire geopolitical situation. However what exactly could they do? These nearby Muslim nations. Start a war with Israel? What would you suggest they do?
Maybe the West could have done something, the ones with all the power and influence.

I don't know if you're American, but the American solution is to have territories divided into states, under a federal holding of land divisions, obviously. That way, the conflict between the different demographic growth of different groups, who may not agree with each other, is highly minimized - though in time, different groups hopefully end up happily integrating with each other in as much a positive way as they can, and they do. This can strengthen a whole territory. Anyone can go buy land and settle anywhere, in the broad land holding. If Mormons or Catholics decide to make communities in other states, they can't be considered settlers, then. It is simultaneously a libertarian and leftist solution, because land ownership becomes inclusive

To your point in post 103, effectively Israel is kind of doing that in a analogous sense, by attacking places that might have hostages? But I also can't imagine that your scenario would be very applicable, unless in the said host cities and towns where the fighters were, the locals weren't apt to, or could not, report where they were. This statement is not to vilify the civilian population that is hosting them in Gaza, as I think they are probably mostly hostages of their leadership

Also note that it is probable that a flailing kind of counterattack is what Hamas probably wanted. And I also wonder if such things are fully preventable by even good leaders, when these things happen - even if a leader didn't want it, would some military leader go do it? If the leader wanted to show full restraint, would the population itself contest the leader? I don't know. But that's getting unnecessarily abstract, probably

 

[icehorse]

Why do all sorts of terrible things continue to persist? This is not a very reasonable argument. I cannot explain the entire geopolitical situation. However what exactly could they do? These nearby Muslim nations. Start a war with Israel? What would you suggest they do?
Maybe the West could have done something, the ones with all the power and influence.

They could have taken in refugees. They could have eliminated Hamas. Or at least they could have participated in making sure Hamas wasn't supplied with rockets.

Oh right, the evil West

 

[icehorse]

Who cares what you think they are doing?

Answer the hypothetical question...or don't. If you won't, then we are done.

Here's how it works, if you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

 

[icehorse]

Clearly they are, thousands have died in the Israeli onslaught, thanks to Hamas, bringing down this horror upon them.

 

[rocala]

I cannot explain the entire geopolitical situation.

It is incredibly complex.

Oh right, the evil West

Not evil IMO, but let's look at the last couple of centuries. Many things have contributed to what is now known as Israel. Not least among them was the desire for a safe Jewish homeland. Caused in part by 1/ Russian pogroms, European violence. 2/ The 1st World War, European violence. 3/ The Nazi holocaust, European violence. 4/ The Balfour Declaration, European interference. 5/ The League of Nations, international interference.

Do you see the pattern forming? Whoever is to blame I think it unbelievably unfair to blame the Palestinians. Yet we do. Equally unfair is this habit of Western armchair politicians, we have some on RF, to decide who should become refugees, always Palestinians please note, and whose country we send them to. This is not a typical response though.

Back in the apartheid era, nobody suggested that black Africans be moved to other countries. During the troubles, nobody suggested that Irish republicans or loyalists be dumped into someone else's country. No, we seem to reserve this particular hypocrisy for the Palestinians.

Look at what happened in inter-war Germany when those people felt themselves to be degraded. What ever you say about Hamas, you cannot say it was unexpected. I would suggest that it was inevitable. And who do we blame?

 

[icehorse]

It is incredibly complex.

Not evil IMO, but let's look at the last couple of centuries. Many things have contributed to what is now known as Israel. Not least among them was the desire for a safe Jewish homeland. Caused in part by 1/ Russian pogroms, European violence. 2/ The 1st World War, European violence. 3/ The Nazi holocaust, European violence. 4/ The Balfour Declaration, European interference. 5/ The League of Nations, international interference.

Do you see the pattern forming? Whoever is to blame I think it unbelievably unfair to blame the Palestinians. Yet we do. Equally unfair is this habit of Western armchair politicians, we have some on RF, to decide who should become refugees, always Palestinians please note, and whose country we send them to. This is not a typical response though.

Back in the apartheid era, nobody suggested that black Africans be moved to other countries. During the troubles, nobody suggested that Irish republicans or loyalists be dumped into someone else's country. No, we seem to reserve this particular hypocrisy for the Palestinians.

Look at what happened in inter-war Germany when those people felt themselves to be degraded. What ever you say about Hamas, you cannot say it was unexpected. I would suggest that it was inevitable. And who do we blame?

It's hard to know how to capture the "correct" amount of context for this situation. For example, IMO the Balfour Declaration was a disaster for many groups of people in the ME. But what I notice in your summary history is a lack of Muslim interference in this history and that's also clearly a mistake.

 

[setarcos]

You're right, all Palestinians are evil. Wipe them out!

If you got this out of what I've said then I woefully and inadequately made it clear where I stand in consideration of the Palestinians people. If so I must apologize for being limited in by ability to express myself. My main focus is on the ideological goals and the particular people that express those goals. If the Palestinian people in general embrace the ideological tactics of Hamas then they are a deranged people which pose a threat to humanity. I don't believe that to be the case. I believe the majority of the current Palestinians living under Hamas's leadership are an oppressed peoples....as oppressed as they claim to be by Israel which is doubly tragic.

 

[setarcos]

Take no prisoners it appears.

Israeli Leaders Vow to Wipe Hamas ‘Off the Face of the Earth’

The comments signal Israel may be entering final preparations for what officials believe could be an invasion of Gaza.

time.com

Excerpted....
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, hours after forming an emergency government and wartime cabinet, foreshadowed a major ground attack on Gaza by promising to destroy Hamas.
“Every Hamas terrorist is a dead man,” Netanyahu said at a late-night briefing, flanked by Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and Benny Gantz, the leader of an opposition party.

Um...that's called one mans emotional hyperbolic rhetoric I believe. One has to place these things into perspective. The Hamas "terrorist" ideology is to eliminate all the Jews period. The only possible response from an entity that doesn't wish to be eliminated is to itself eliminate that kind of ideology. Currently that kind of aggressive ideology is embodied in Hamas and their tactics.

 

[Revoltingest]

Um...that's called one mans emotional hyperbolic rhetoric I believe. One has to place these things into perspective. The Hamas "terrorist" ideology is to eliminate all the Jews period. The only possible response from an entity that doesn't wish to be eliminated is to itself eliminate that kind of ideology. Currently that kind of aggressive ideology is embodied in Hamas and their tactics.

There's a double standard of rhetoric.
When it serves Israel's demonization of Muslims, it's....
"They want to wipe us out!"
"They teach their children to hate Jews!"
But when Israel uses the language of extermination,
it's just rhetoric.
Let's look at who's doing the most killing, & evicting.
That would be Israel.
Which country lobbied USA to attack Iran.

Bush Rejected Israeli Plea To Raid Iran

N.Y. Times Reports President Refused Support For Direct Attack On Nuclear Complex; Opted For Covert Action

www.cbsnews.com

Which foreign country lobbies for censorship in USA.

Pro-Israel groups target US lawmakers critical of Israel’s war ahead of primaries

Rashida Tlaib and other Democratic ‘Squad’ members – and one Republican – are targets of attack ads as critics support opponents

www.theguardian.com

 

[SkepticThinker]

There’s really nothing to discuss. You made it very clear where you stand on other threads that you support Hamas. They exist because of Israel’s oppression is what you said.

I don't think that's been made clear at all.