Have you ever found a single bug in Islam?

[Sees]

Baha'ullah said

((*God has given man the eye of investigation by which he may see and recognize truth. He has endowed man with ears that he may hear the message of reality and conferred upon him the gift of reason by which he may discover things for himself. This is his endowment and equipment for the investigation of reality. Man is not intended to see through the eyes of another, hear through another's ears nor comprehend with another's brain. Each human creature has individual endowment, power and responsibility in the creative plan of God.))

But we investigate what the others saw and what the others heard as we ourselves we didn't see or hear anything ourselves.

What we have to see ? historical books and what we have to hear,music

There are religions and Gods who do not live in books Knockout

 

[FearGod]

So God won't give us such specific prophecies because He knows that we won't believe them?

Then He must know that we won't believe the vague prophecies that He gives us.

So why does He give us any prophecies at all?

Some believe and some will say it was just a coincidence but there is one major sign which is rising the sun from the west,all will believe but the door of forgiveness will be already closed at that moments.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Baha'ullah said "Ye are all leaves of one tree and the fruits of one branch"

Can you explain his simple sentence

we are all leaves of one tree and we are the fruits of one branch
What about if better to say we are mangoes and coconuts.

By the way, you have it backward

This is the whole quote:

"The utterance of God is a lamp, whose light is these words: Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words. "

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 287-289

 

[Ingledsva]

Yep! You folks come off WAY-WAY ahead of Islam -


But you still don't have true full equality for women.

I don't think that's true. Baha'i Faith teaches there is full equality of rights between men and women. In fact when in America and Europe the women did not have the right to vote, Baha'i women were participating in Baha'i elections, being way ahead of other systems...
Having said that men and women have differences in abilities and duties. For example women can get pregnant, but men cannot. Even men are different from each other, some are stronger, or women are different from other women, therefore it is obvious men and women are not equal in every aspect.....If you are talking about women are not in Universal House of Justice, being a member in UHJ is not an advantage or station, but it is a duty and service that women are exempt.
But for example, with regards to getting education, girls are given higher priority in Baha'i faith, since they will be Mothers.

"If it is not possible, therefore, for a family to educate all the children, preference is to be accorded to daughters since, through educated mothers, the benefits of knowledge can be most effectively and rapidly diffused throughout society." Most Holy Book, p.100

I am well aware of Baha'i teachings. I have been attending Baha'i Dinner Debates for years, here on our island, and have read many of the books, etc.


It is the same-old - same-old, that patriarchy uses to keep control for themselves.


Women are "called" equal - but cannot hold the highest governing office!


That is not true equality. That is holding on to the power - by men.


Some of that "HELD" power - by Universal House of Justice (No women allowed)


"Applying Bahá'í principles and laws

Developing, abrogating and changing laws that are not recorded in the Bahá'í sacred texts, according to the requirements of the time

Pronouncing sanctions against violations of Bahá'í law

Adjudicating and arbitrating of disputes referred to it

Administrating all religious funds and endowments such as Huqúqu'lláh that are entrusted to its care"


"The Universal House of Justice is also given the responsibility of adapting the Bahá'í Faith as society progresses, and is thus given the power to legislate on matters not explicitly covered in the Bahá'í sacred texts. While the Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its own legislation as conditions change, it cannot dissolve or change any of the laws which are explicitly written in the sacred texts."


EDIT - I read a little further concerning male and female and it said - males were to be head of household, and men receive a bigger inheritance.



*

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I am well aware of Baha'i teachings. I have been attending Baha'i Dinner Debates for years, here on our island, and have read many of the books, etc.


It is the same-old - same-old, that patriarchy uses to keep control for themselves.


Women are "called" equal - but cannot hold the highest governing office!


That is not true equality. That is holding on to the power - by men.





"The Universal House of Justice is also given the responsibility of adapting the Bahá'í Faith as society progresses, and is thus given the power to legislate on matters not explicitly covered in the Bahá'í sacred texts. While the Universal House of Justice is authorized to change or repeal its own legislation as conditions change, it cannot dissolve or change any of the laws which are explicitly written in the sacred texts."




*

So now that you have done your investigation, have you found that the Universal House of Justice have legislated any Laws that is discrimination of any kind against women?

Some of that "HELD" power - by Universal House of Justice (No women allowed)


"Applying Bahá'í principles and laws

Developing, abrogating and changing laws that are not recorded in the Bahá'í sacred texts, according to the requirements of the time

Pronouncing sanctions against violations of Bahá'í law

Adjudicating and arbitrating of disputes referred to it

Administrating all religious funds and endowments such as Huqúqu'lláh that are entrusted to its care"

That is perhaps your view, to call it 'Power'. In our view it 'duty' and 'service'

 

[FearGod]

• Equality of men and women.

Bah' Faith Principles

*There must be an equality of rights between men and women. Women shall receive an equal privilege of education. This will enable them to qualify and progress in all degrees of occupation and accomplishment. For the world of humanity possesses two wings, man and woman. If one wing remains incapable and defective, it will restrict the power of the other, and full flight will be impossible. Therefore the completeness and perfection of the human world is dependent upon the equal development of these two factors.

That make sense.

If my father is a doctor and my mother is ignorant,then we can't fly because one wing is working and the other is cooking,Tom and Jerry can make it much better.

 

[Ingledsva]

So now that you have done your investigation, have you found that the Universal House of Justice have legislated any Laws that is discrimination of any kind against women?



That is perhaps your view, to call it 'Power'. In our view it 'duty' and 'service'

LOL! You can call it whatever you like.


It is inequality.


It is patriarchy holding the actual power from women.


The MEN ONLY, have the power to interpret law, change the laws, hold and distribute the money, and answer disputes, - perhaps brought by questioning women!


That is ABSOLUTE POWER of the organization.




*

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Not true. I can even quote form Baha'i Writings asking to support them. Off course homosexuality is not accepted, but also discrimination against them is also not supported. This was already discussed here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/bahai-faith-dir/145330-being-bahai-homosexual.html

Bolded the only important statement. Baha'i has work to do.

 

[Ingledsva]

...


That is perhaps your view, to call it 'Power'. In our view it 'duty' and 'service'

Only a male would call it "duty" and "service" to be in FULL CONTROL, with no women allowed. And perhaps a few "fully indoctrinated women."


And by the way - that sentence fits all of the religions of Abraham, which yours also sprang from.


Your religion still says men should be head of household, and men get a bigger inheritance, etc.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

Not true. I can even quote form Baha'i Writings asking to support them. Off course homosexuality is not accepted, but also discrimination against them is also not supported. This was already discussed here:

Being Baha'i and Homosexual.

Bolded the only important statement. Baha'i has work to do.

Holy cow! Did you go and over and actually read that ridiculous thread?


They equate homosexuality with pride, greed, selfishness, lustful heterosexual or homosexual desires,...


And they suggests gay people live and die without any sex.


It is absolutely amazing to me, that these religions claim to be revelations from God - who supposedly created humans, -

and they don' recognize that homosexuality has always been with us, and as a basically set percentage of births, for many thousands of years, -

it has to be a built in part of the human race FOR A REASON.


I have to concluded that religions that exclude homosexuals - are not actually revelations from God.


I don't thing God would be so stupid as to create homosexuality - for a reason - and then condemn homosexuals.



*

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Only a male would call it "duty" and "service" to be in FULL CONTROL, with no women allowed. And perhaps a few "fully indoctrinated women."

That is your view. The fact is being a member of UHJ, has no advantage in terms of wealth and other worldly things.

And by the way - that sentence fits all of the religions of Abraham, which yours also sprang from.


Your religion still says men should be head of household, and men get a bigger inheritance, etc.

That is again your interpretation. The members of UHJ as 'individuals' are only regular Baha'is, and have no higher station than me, or you. Just the facts.

Moreover, the worldwide Baha'i Faith was lead by a women, 'Mary Sutherland Maxwell' for several years, before the universal house of Justice is elected, making it the only religion that ever whose worldwide main leader was a woman.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Some believe and some will say it was just a coincidence but there is one major sign which is rising the sun from the west,all will believe but the door of forgiveness will be already closed at that moments.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you claiming that God prophesized that the sun will rise from the west?

What are you talking about?

 

[Ingledsva]

That is your view. The fact is being a member of UHJ, has no advantage in terms of wealth and other worldly things.




That is again your interpretation. The members of UHJ as 'individuals' are only regular Baha'is, and have no higher station than me, or you. Just the facts.

LOL! It is not my "view!"


It is a fact!


They do not allow women into the body that creates or changes the laws, handles the money, or answers/settles disputes.


That is absolutely a patriarchal "MALE" holding of the actual power within Baha'i.


Women are not allowed to make, or change laws. And apparently they can't even actually dispute such laws, as MEN settle any disputes.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

...

Moreover, the worldwide Baha'i Faith was lead by a women, 'Mary Sutherland Maxwell' for several years, before the universal house of Justice is elected, making it the only religion that ever whose worldwide main leader was a woman.

I suggest you read the history further, that was as high as she could rise.


The only reason that was the top at the time was because they couldn't decide how to implement the Universal House of Justice.


And of course we know the Universal is the actual top with the actual POWER, - and NO WOMEN ARE ALLOWED!


She could not join the MALES in actual POWER.


*

 

[InvestigateTruth]

LOL! It is not my "view!"


It is a fact!


They do not allow women into the body that creates or changes the laws, handles the money, or answers/settles disputes.


That is absolutely a patriarchal "MALE" holding of the actual power within Baha'i.


Women are not allowed to make, or change laws. And apparently they can't even actually dispute such laws, as MEN settle any disputes.



*

The problem with your view is, you are seeing everything with a suspicious mind, as if, there is a group of men sitting there, making plans in favour of men, or as if these individual members of UHJ are given some money or worldly or spiritual station higher than others. Since none of these are applicable, (or you need to show otherwise), therefore it cannot be said women or men are not treated equally as you concluded. But rather a more duty is put on the shoulder of men than women. Moreover you have ignored that in some cases, such as education, the priority is given to girls over boys. Or you have ignored, that in Baha'i faith, the main leader was a women for several years.....and just looking at one thing to make a conclusion IMO, without looking at the whole picture, does not make your point, but I don't insist, you are free to have your opinion.

 

[gnostic]

You are learning and listening and you have the Internet to pick any information you need,are you greater than Shakespeare.

Why do some Muslims lived in self-denial?

The reality is that Christian missionaries taught and preached to many people, who couldn't read or write.

Muhammad didn't live in complete isolation, not knowing the biblical stories of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Solomon, Jesus, etc. He was exposed to these religions and religious icons before he became prophet.

He traveled with his uncle as an apprentice trader. Doesn't Islamic tradition state that Muhammad went to Syria with his uncle? And doesn't it say that he met a monk in this or these travels? And in Syria, missionaries frequently preach before people, not teach them to read.

He married a wealthy widow Khadijah, who inherited her late husband's trade, which also gave him opportunities to meet people. And some of his disciples were Jewish, weren't they?

You don't need to able to read, to learn.

That he learned biblical stories from other people, is far more plausible than Muhammad meeting the archangel Gabriel in a cave, who taught him everything.

Cross-culture happened, especially for people who are in the business of trading caravans, regardless of whether ones can read or not. If you seriously don't think Muhammad could not have encounter other cultures before he became a prophet, then I will leave you to your bliss in ignorance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The problem with your view is, you are seeing everything with a suspicious mind, as if, there is a group of men sitting there, making plans in favour of men, or as if these individual members of UHJ are given some money or worldly or spiritual station higher than others. Since none of these are applicable, (or you need to show otherwise), therefore it cannot be said women or men are not treated equally as you concluded. But rather a more duty is put on the shoulder of men than women. Moreover you have ignored that in some cases, such as education, the priority is given to girls over boys. Or you have ignored, that in Baha'i faith, the main leader was a women for several years.....and just looking at one thing to make a conclusion IMO, without looking at the whole picture, does not make your point, but I don't insist, you are free to have your opinion.

The problem is that women are excluded from taking part in the highest levels of decision making in their religion simply because of their gender. It can't be put any more simpler than that. That is discrimination.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I suggest you read the history further, that was as high as she could rise.


The only reason that was the top at the time was because they couldn't decide how to implement the Universal House of Justice.


And of course we know the Universal is the actual top with the actual POWER, - and NO WOMEN ARE ALLOWED!


She could not join the MALES in actual POWER.


*

First you need to show, being a member of UHJ has an advantage for that person, then you can conclude that, being deprived of it, is a discrimination. SO far you have not shown this.
It seems to me, you view Baha'i Faith as a political government in which if you have a higher position, you get more money or your are more respected or important. If this is how you view it, I suggest you need to do more investigation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The problem is that women are excluded from taking part in the highest levels of decision making in their religion simply because of their gender. It can't be put any more simpler than that. That is discrimination.

So, God created women so they can get pregnant because of their gender. But men cannot. Is that a discrimination in your opinion?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So, God created women so they can get pregnant because of their gender. Is that a discrimination in your opinion?

Yes, that is an unfair aspect of biology but that can be overcome with the proper use of birth control. However, that has nothing to do with whether or not women should be able to be part of the decision making group of their religion.