Have you read your holy book

[Stonetree]

Clearly, Christians don't understand the bible (by accepted verbal snippets), nor have they read the whole bible, or the world, that they control through voting, wouldn't be in such a mess (disease, environmental destruction, wars, torture camps, tapped phones, etc).

Some know that they do is wrong (wars, though God commanded not to kill), but they do wrong anyway. Surely Reverend Tim and Tammy Faye Bakker knew that it was wrong to steal donations to starving Africans to air condition the dog house of their mansion (in their lawyer's name to evade detection).

Many Christians believe that they have original sin anyway, and believe that they will be eventually pardoned for any sins, so they continue to sin.

They cherry-pick the bible, and selectively pardon their own members (gawking at the splinters in the eyes of non-Christians, while ignoring the logs in their own). They sluffed off the steamy sex scandal between President George H. W. Bush and British secretary, Jennifer Fitzgerald, whom Bush had hired at the CIA. Yet, when President Bill Clinton had a lesser sex scandal, he was impeached by their so-called Independent council, Ken Starr (note that witch trial rooms are called Star Chambers)--impeachment followed.

"Do as I say, not as I do," was the advice of the daughter of Senator Palin (Republican, Alaska), who had been the poster-girl for their chastity campaign while she was having babies with three men out of wedlock. Apparently, all of her problems were "little ones" (kids).

It makes no sense to scrutize ever concept and word of the bible, while disobeying God. It was like the scene from Roots (Alex Haley's movie/book about his genealogy and slavery), in which the master was piously reading the bible so couldn't be disturbed by Kunta Kinte being whipped to accept the name Toby. To be, or not to be Toby, that was the question.

Okay for us, not okay for you. The bible commands that Christians prostelytize, so they walk door to door to convert everyone. Yet, get into a religious forum, and suddenly America's freedom of speech should be turned into the former Soviet Union's Iron Curtain. People come to religious forums, with people of various faiths, no exchange ideas and understand other cultures. Yet, it ends up with the Cancel Culture allowing people to speak as long as they are saying what you want them to say.

America allows all religions to exist simultaneously, and to assure this, they have a separation of church and state, by which the government doesn't favor any particular religion. Yet, there are christmas trees in public squares, and we swear on Christian bibles in courts, and we have presidents who "fight evil" (while doing evil, like war). Led prayers in schools, and teaching creationism rather than evolution and DNA (which proves evolution) are contrary to this separation. Passing welfare and food distribution to churches saves government money, but cedes power to religions (austensibly any religions, but actually just a few). Jewish senior centers don't get funded if they just provide Jewish food (because it excludes others)--The Ezra center, of Temple Beth Emet, decided to do without Federal and state funding for their senior meals, and get seniors to pay their own way. Yet, Christian senior centers continue to exist. Many religious schools can't get government funding, so they have to pay their own way. Beth Emet had classes taught in Hebrew.

With corrupt religion rife within the Christian churches, Christians claim that Atheists are evil or sinners, and they have nor morals. Yet, we don't see many scandals of atheists. We do see lawsuits against child molesting priests (and the Catholic church).

We can't complain about such scandals because the church and forums claim that it is blaspheme to object to child molesting priests, and that it hurts God or hurts the church. Is molestation of little boys a standard part of the religion? If not, then we have an obligation to stop it.

Don't you just hate when that happens.

 

[RabbiO]

I explained it in my post #52 paarsurrey , my friend perhaps missed it. Right?
I have also read Torah (OT), from cover to cover and Gospels (NT) from cover to cover , both Catholic and Protestant versions. Right?

You misunderstand my question. Let me put it a different way. When you follow a statement with “Right?” you are implying that the person(s) with whom you are communicating are not only already aware of what you’re saying, but importantly, also agree with what you are saying.

I was not questionning how many times it is possible to read the Quran from beginning to end. I was not even necessarily questioning how many times you have read the Quran. However, by saying “Right?” in the post to which I first responded - and you’ve done again here - you’re asking us, without evidence, to indeed confirm how many times you have done so.

 

[firedragon]

I have also read Torah (OT), from cover to cover and Gospels (NT) from cover to cover , both Catholic and Protestant versions. Right?

Torah is not the OT.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Inspired by a conversation with @Mark Charles Compton about whether Christians actually read the bible.

@Mark Charles Compton suggests that in his experience the majority of Christians have read the entire bible though it may differ by denomination. While my view again based on experience is that very few Christians have actually read the bible and are satisfied with snippets handed to them, so long as those snippets.meet their expectations.

Here i am going to expand the idea across all religions. First I ask for a simple Yes/No answer to the questionnaire then add a quick post naming which of the Bible, Qur'an, Gita, Torah, Guru Granth Sahib, Tripitaka or other named holy book of your religion you have read cover to cover.


Edit for clarity.

Some faiths have more (many more) than one book, for these, full read of the book(s) you consider most important will suffice for a tes vote

People born in a Christian denomination or people who made a conscious choice to trust Christ as Savior. Most of the latter have read the Bible and continue to reread it daily or nearly so.

Rather I find skeptics are the ones pulling snippets--or worse, claim to have read the whole Bible then seem amazed when they are told the themes and direction of the Bible!

 

[ChristineM]

People born in a Christian denomination or people who made a conscious choice to trust Christ as Savior. Most of the latter have read the Bible and continue to reread it daily or nearly so

I find just the opposite hence the reason for this thread, the ignorance of some bible verses prompts me to believe that very few Christians actually read all the bible

Rather I find skeptics are the ones pulling snippets--or worse, claim to have read the whole Bible then seem amazed when they are told the themes and direction of the Bible

Again, the opposite. I do however find skeptics can be rather surprised, shocked even at some of the interpretations believers place on what is a simple to understand passage, particularly in the OT

 

[viole]

that is invisible right away.

Like Its Inspirer?

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Inspired by a conversation with @Mark Charles Compton about whether Christians actually read the bible.

@Mark Charles Compton suggests that in his experience the majority of Christians have read the entire bible though it may differ by denomination. While my view again based on experience is that very few Christians have actually read the bible and are satisfied with snippets handed to them, so long as those snippets.meet their expectations.

Here i am going to expand the idea across all religions. First I ask for a simple Yes/No answer to the questionnaire then add a quick post naming which of the Bible, Qur'an, Gita, Torah, Guru Granth Sahib, Tripitaka or other named holy book of your religion you have read cover to cover.


Edit for clarity.

Some faiths have more (many more) than one book, for these, full read of the book(s) you consider most important will suffice for a tes vote

i read all Genesis lyrics. Does it count?

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

I have read Quran for approximately a hundred of times from cover to cover. Right?

Is that so difficult to understand?

ciao

- viole

 

[ChristineM]

i read all Genesis lyrics. Does it count?

ciao

- viole

If Genesis is you religion
Phil Collins is something of a god on those skins

 

[viole]

At least in the United States, Atheists seem to have read the Bible more than Christians.

That is why they are atheists now, probably.

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

If Genesis is you religion
Phil Collins is something of a god on those skins

Yes, and the Archangel Gabriel has Peter as first name.

ciao

- viole

 

[paradox]

Like Its Inspirer?

It's indeed interesting how invisible things become visible without the help of a naked eye

 

[viole]

It's indeed interesting how invisible things become visible without the help of a naked eye

Yes, my Muslim friend told me the same. Do you think he has a point?

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

People born in a Christian denomination or people who made a conscious choice to trust Christ as Savior. Most of the latter have read the Bible and continue to reread it daily or nearly so.

Rather I find skeptics are the ones pulling snippets--or worse, claim to have read the whole Bible then seem amazed when they are told the themes and direction of the Bible!

“Amazed” is not the word atheists would use.

ciao

- viole

 

[paradox]

Yes, my Muslim friend told me the same. Do you think he has a point?

very likely, I think the catch is in esotericism or esoteric portion of the religion.

any religion gives us the the picture called "exotericism", which is what everybody is able to understand in plain language, it's an external portion of the religion,
such as what the religion is about, ex. it's fundamental teachings.
but then there is also "esotericism" which only a very few can understand or figure out, and this is the "key" or secret around any religion.

I think I found esotericism of Christianity, likewise your Muslim friend did the same.
And here is how you can 100% verify anyone did it:
no one will reveal esoteric portion of their religion.

If one does he is lying to you.

 

[viole]

very likely, I think the catch is in esotericism or esoteric portion of the religion.

any religion gives us the the picture called "exotericism", which is what everybody is able to understand in plain language, it's an external portion of the religion,
such as what the religion is about, ex. it's fundamental teachings.
but then there is also "esotericism" which only a very few can understand or figure out, and this is the "key" or secret around any religion.

I think I found esotericism of Christianity, likewise your Muslim friend did the same.
And here is how you can 100% verify anyone did it:
no one will reveal esoteric portion of their religion.

If one does he is lying to you.

So, how do I know you, or my Muslim friend, or my Hindu friend, or my potentially thousands of friends believing in their own divinity, see the real thing?

And how do you know that? He could be you are exoteric, and Allah is true, with all associated consequences.

What prevents me from simply chalking that out, on account of the irreconcilable mutual incompatibilities, as a form of delusion, or hallucination?

ciao

- viole

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

@ChristineM

Yes. I've read the Bible many times. I study it daily. But I've also read other sacred and quasi-sacred texts of other religions. The Dhammapada, Four Noble Truths, Gospel of Buddha, Analects of Confucius, Mencius, Bhagavad Gita, Quran, Pirke Avot, Nihongi, Kojiki, Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, and Lieh Tzŭ.

 

[paradox]

So, how do I know you, or my Muslim friend, or my Hindu friend, or my potentially thousands of friends believing in their own divinity, see the real thing?

What prevents me from simply chalk that out, on account of the irreconcilable mutual incompatibilities, as a form of delusion, or hallucination?

Since nobody is going to (and most aren't able to) discuss about esoteric portion of their religion openly (except a liar) the only way is to figure out esoteric is on your own.

A hint:
You labeled your self as "Gnostic Atheism", therefore I suppose you know that "gnostic" relates to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge.

Since you're atheist, this means you on your path seek some kind of secret knowledge that God does not exist, this would be the crown of your belief because it would strengthen your belief to the maximum.
See, this "may be" the esoteric portion of your belief that there are no gods, but I think you don't truly know this, science by it's nature is unable to do such things, and most often you likely debate with theists so you still need to investigate a lot, and once you do you'll appreciate your esoteric because you invested a lot of time to figure things out.

Why wouldn't you share your esoteric knowledge if you gain it?
1. You spent a lot of time researching so to explain it to someone would take a lot of time and in the end even if you do, many would not understand, if most of the people do understand then it's not esoteric.
2. You will value such your discovery so much that you want to keep it for yourself, ex. you don't see others worthy of knowing, hence why esoteric knowledge is considered secret knowledge. it's secret by design, not by you keeping it secret

The only question that remains is, how do you know your esoteric is valid, ie. not false or just in your mind?
You know when you meet others of same faith or same worldview and you are able to discuss it without revealing the details, that is you see they know but are equally not willing to share with you, similar to public secret.

Example short article:
Esoteric vs Exoteric | MindWorthyInfo.com

 

[ChristineM]

@ChristineM

Yes. I've read the Bible many times. I study it daily. But I've also read other sacred and quasi-sacred texts of other religions. The Dhammapada, Four Noble Truths, Gospel of Buddha, Analects of Confucius, Mencius, Bhagavad Gita, Quran, Pirke Avot, Nihongi, Kojiki, Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, and Lieh Tzŭ.

From the replies on this thread it does seem that several religions are dedicated to reading their holy books,. I am not surprised about Islam, i am enlightened to some others.

It seems to me that the religion least dedicated to their "entire" book is christianity, which is no big surprise, i am only surprised that more christians read the bible than i imagined.

In my view you are quite exceptional in your study.

Oh. And welcome to RF

 

[viole]

Since nobody is going to (and most aren't able to) discuss about esoteric portion of their religion openly (except a liar) the only way is to figure out esoteric is on your own.

A hint:
You labeled your self as "Gnostic Atheism", therefore I suppose you know that "gnostic" relates to knowledge, especially esoteric mystical knowledge.

Since you're atheist, this means you on your path seek some kind of secret knowledge that God does not exist, this would be the crown of your belief because it would strengthen your belief to the maximum.
See, this "may be" the esoteric portion of your belief that there are no gods, but I think you don't truly know this, science by it's nature is unable to do such things, and most often you likely debate with theists so you still need to investigate a lot, and once you do you'll appreciate your esoteric because you invested a lot of time to figure things out.

Why wouldn't you share your esoteric knowledge if you gain it?
1. You spent a lot of time researching so to explain it to someone would take a lot of time and in the end even if you do, many would not understand, if most of the people do understand then it's not esoteric.
2. You will value such your discovery so much that you want to keep it for yourself, ex. you don't see other worthy of knowing, hence why esoteric knowledge is considered secret knowledge. it's secret by design, not by you keeping it secret

The only question that remains is, how do you know your esoteric is valid, ie. not false or just in your mind?
You know when you meet others of same faith or same worldview and you are able to discuss it without revealing the details, that is you see they know but are equally not willing to share with you, similar to public secret.

Example short article:
Esoteric vs Exoteric | MindWorthyInfo.com

Ok, suppose my exoteric is not valid.

how do I know your is valid? How are you different from me, my Muslim friend, and all people who believed in gods completely at odds with yours?

ciao

- viole