Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

[SkepticThinker]

From ProPublica:

In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.​

​

She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.​

​

But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.​

​

Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.​

​

It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.​

Elections have consequences ...

It's absolutely disgusting and appalling to me that something like this is happening to a woman in the year 2024 in a (supposedly) free country. Supposedly the freest country in the whole world, some of it's inhabitants like to tell us.
Unreal.

These "pro-life" people need to get their priorities in order. Nothing about this is "pro-life."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Honestly I can't understand how she could afford abortion pills, but couldn't afford a package of Yasminelle.
Hormonal pills.

This really shocks me. We all take hormonal pills... and despite some side effect, we are alive.

I am sorry...but I cannot empathize. Birth control is infinitely much cheaper than abortion pills.

Try reading the story.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There is a prostitute that lives in my neighborhood...she never got pregnant.
And she is not sterile.

There is a friend of mine...she has two degrees, she got pregnant and it was an unwanted pregnancy.

Education doesn't make you smarter.

Who cares? That's not what this thread is about.

 

[Estro Felino]

Try reading the story.

But she did know that in her state there was a medieval law outlawing abortion...
so...a little bit of prevention...?

 

[Kenny]

But many laws are agreed upon by people of
greatly varying cultures, faiths, & non-faiths,
eg, prohibiting murder & robbery.
Abortion is different. It's over-whelmingly
Christian fundies imposing a their religion
upon others.

I’m not sure about your analogy here. If many laws are agreed upon by people of varying cultures et al, it doesn’t detract from my statement. Religions encompass about 85%+ of all people in the world. Every culture and/or religion and/or non-religious imposes their belief on someone else. Just because one intersects on murder and robbery doesn’t change what I said which is “Every law imposes one persons will on another"

So, other than just trolling, I’m not sure what your point is.

 

[Kenny]

But she did know that in her state there was a medieval law outlawing abortion...
so...a little bit of prevention...?

Is that too simple?

 

[Kenny]

True...but this woman had another child.
How she could have an unwanted pregnancy at her age...is a mystery.

My son had a vasectomy and my wife had her tube tied when she had her third C-section. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Kenny]

And you just continue..................................................................

Maybe try and shift your focus to the fact that we have a woman here arriving in a hospital with a life-threatening medical emergency and wasn't given the help she needed which resulted in her death.

How she ended up in that situation makes absolutely no difference at all.

But “why” was she not given medical help? If I am not mistaken, there is no law against performing a D & C

 

[Kenny]

And once again:

WTF does any of that have to do with the fact that the reason she died is because the state made the life saving medical procedure illegal?​

What was illegal?

 

[Kenny]

So, basically, this is fake news even as I pointed out in the beginning:​

From the site the OP:

"she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. “ Which means that she had already had the main parts already out of her body

So I dug a litte further and found:

​

How was Thurman treated when she arrived at the hospital?​

American Association of Pro-Life OBGYNs said, in reaction to the case, that “any first-year resident could make” the diagnosis that this was an infection due to an incomplete abortion, the standard of care for which is immediate antibiotics and a dilation and curettage, also known as a D&C.

A D&C involves dilating the patient’s cervix and surgically removing the retained products of conception by scraping the inside of the uterus. The process is used to treat both natural miscarriages and induced abortions.

But Thurman only received antibiotics three hours after presenting with infection symptoms and a D&C was not performed until approximately 20 hours after she arrived at the hospital in critical condition. She died on the operating table during the procedure.

Fact check: Harris blames abortion restriction for Georgia woman’s death - Washington Examiner

Vice President Kamala Harris, while campaigning, referenced the death of Georgia mother Amber Thurman, 28, following abortion pill complications. Here is all you need to know about the tragic case.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

So this is really about pushing an agenda with false information.

 

[Revoltingest]

Lawmakers are not healthcare professionals. Heck, it wasn't that long ago when one argued that an ectopic pregnancy could be "reimplanted" for crimey's sake.

And....

'Rape can't cause pregnancy': A brief history of Todd Akin's bogus theory

The embattled Akin believed (at least until 48 hours ago) that women can't get pregnant from rape. As bizarre as that theory is, he's hardly the first to spout it

theweek.com

 

[Pogo]

I’m not sure about your analogy here. If many laws are agreed upon by people of varying cultures et al, it doesn’t detract from my statement. Religions encompass about 85%+ of all people in the world. Every culture and/or religion and/or non-religious imposes their belief on someone else. Just because one intersects on murder and robbery doesn’t change what I said which is “Every law imposes one persons will on another"

So, other than just trolling, I’m not sure what your point is.

Very simply we are not talking about things that are agreed generally since the dawn of civilization but one small segment of one religion attempting to legislate for the general populace.
Apples and Kumquats.

But “why” was she not given medical help? If I am not mistaken, there is no law against performing a D & C

Depends on whether it is considered an abortion which it would normally be considered as and at her gestation date, it would have been.
Here we have a problem, at least in this case, That you might not find a problem does not mean another might.
The situation has devolved such that legal nitpickings have overridden rational decisions by doctors

 

[Revoltingest]

I’m not sure about your analogy here.

I proffered no analogy.

If many laws are agreed upon by people of varying cultures et al, it doesn’t detract from my statement. Religions encompass about 85%+ of all people in the world. Every culture and/or religion and/or non-religious imposes their belief on someone else. Just because one intersects on murder and robbery doesn’t change what I said which is “Every law imposes one persons will on another"

You're ignoring the fact that primarily fundie
Christians drive the ban on abortion. This is
due to their wanting to impose their religious
belief on others. Murder & other crimes aren't
like that because their criminalization has far
broader support.

So, other than just trolling....

 

[Kenny]

Very simply we are not talking about things that are agreed generally since the dawn of civilization but one small segment of one religion attempting to legislate for the general populace.
Apples and Kumquats.

Depends on whether it is considered an abortion which it would normally be considered as and at her gestation date, it would have been.
Here we have a problem, at least in this case, That you might not find a problem does not mean another might.
The situation has devolved such that legal nitpickings have overridden rational decisions by doctors

Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

From ProPublica: In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat. She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Kenny]

I proffered no analogy.

You're ignoring the fact that primarily fundie
Christians drive the ban on abortion. This is
due to their wanting to impose their religious
belief on others. Murder & other crimes aren't
like that because their criminalization has far
broader support.

Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

From ProPublica: In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat. She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Heyo]

So, basically, this is fake news even as I pointed out in the beginning:​

From the site the OP:

"she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. “ Which means that she had already had the main parts already out of her body

So I dug a litte further and found:

​

How was Thurman treated when she arrived at the hospital?​

American Association of Pro-Life OBGYNs said, in reaction to the case, that “any first-year resident could make” the diagnosis that this was an infection due to an incomplete abortion, the standard of care for which is immediate antibiotics and a dilation and curettage, also known as a D&C.

A D&C involves dilating the patient’s cervix and surgically removing the retained products of conception by scraping the inside of the uterus. The process is used to treat both natural miscarriages and induced abortions.

But Thurman only received antibiotics three hours after presenting with infection symptoms and a D&C was not performed until approximately 20 hours after she arrived at the hospital in critical condition. She died on the operating table during the procedure.

Fact check: Harris blames abortion restriction for Georgia woman’s death - Washington Examiner

Vice President Kamala Harris, while campaigning, referenced the death of Georgia mother Amber Thurman, 28, following abortion pill complications. Here is all you need to know about the tragic case.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

So this is really about pushing an agenda with false information.

Your source, except from the bias, doesn't add to what can be found in the article in the OP.
Remember that when Thurman died, the law had just been passed and standard procedures hadn't been established. But even until now, the state legislature has refused to clarify their language.

From the ProPublica article:

But Republican legislators have rejected small efforts to expand and clarify health exceptions — even in Georgia, which has one of the nation’s highest rates of maternal mortality and where Black women are three times more likely to die from pregnancy-related complications than white women.


When its law went into effect in July 2022, Gov. Brian Kemp said he was “overjoyed” and believed the state had found an approach that would keep women “safe, healthy and informed.”


After advocates tried to block the ban in court, arguing the law put women in danger, attorneys for the state of Georgia accused them of “hyperbolic fear mongering.”


Two weeks later, Thurman was dead.

ProPublica asked the governor’s office on Friday to respond to cases of denied care, including the two abortion-related deaths, and whether its exceptions were adequate. Spokesperson Garrison Douglas said they were clear and gave doctors the power to act in medical emergencies. He returned to the state’s previous argument, describing ProPublica’s reporting as a “fear-mongering campaign.”


Republican officials across the country have largely rejected calls to provide guidance.

When legislators have tried, anti-abortion groups have blocked them.


In 2023, a group of Tennessee Republicans was unable to push through a small change to the state’s abortion ban, intended to give doctors greater leeway when intervening for patients facing health complications.


“No one wants to tell their spouse, child or loved one that their life is not important in a medical emergency as you watch them die when they could have been saved,” said Republican Rep. Esther Helton-Haynes, a nurse who sponsored the bill.


The state’s main anti-abortion lobbyist, Will Brewer, vigorously opposed the change. Some pregnancy complications “work themselves out,” he told a panel of lawmakers. Doctors should be required to “pause and wait this out and see how it goes.”


At some hospitals, doctors are doing just that. Doctors told ProPublica they have seen colleagues disregard the standard of care when their patients are at risk of infection and wait to see if a miscarriage completes naturally before offering a D&C.

I'm wondering how many here read the full ProPublica article.

 

[Pogo]

Your source, except from the bias, doesn't add to what can be found in the article in the OP.
Remember that when Thurman died, the law had just been passed and standard procedures hadn't been established. But even until now, the state legislature has refused to clarify their language.

From the ProPublica article:




I'm wondering how many here read the full ProPublica article.

I can tell you of at least one who didn't or didn't understand it.

 

[Kenny]

Your source, except from the bias, doesn't add to what can be found in the article in the OP.
Remember that when Thurman died, the law had just been passed and standard procedures hadn't been established. But even until now, the state legislature has refused to clarify their language.

I believe there is no dispute that a D & C is not part of the “standard procedures” for abortions. D & C is standard procedures in many birth cases. I don’t see bias, from my site, but rather an explanation of what the OP site said… “there was still fetal tissue in her womb” (paraphrased)

So I would dispute that the language was a problem. Please note even in your quotes

From the ProPublica article:
But Republican legislators have rejected small efforts to expand and clarify health exceptions — even in Georgia, which has one of the nation’s highest rates of maternal mortality and where Black women are three times more likely to die from pregnancy-related complications than white women.

Notice this is about “exceptions” when a baby exists in the womb. It has nothing to do when an abortion has already been done and there are fetal tissues still inside.

When its law went into effect in July 2022, Gov. Brian Kemp said he was “overjoyed” and believed the state had found an approach that would keep women “safe, healthy and informed.”


After advocates tried to block the ban in court, arguing the law put women in danger, attorneys for the state of Georgia accused them of “hyperbolic fear mongering.”


Two weeks later, Thurman was dead.

Again… there is nothing there to apply to this case other than an attempt to gaslight with false applications.

I'm wondering how many here read the full ProPublica article.
ProPublica asked the governor’s office on Friday to respond to cases of denied care, including the two abortion-related deaths, and whether its exceptions were adequate. Spokesperson Garrison Douglas said they were clear and gave doctors the power to act in medical emergencies. He returned to the state’s previous argument, describing ProPublica’s reporting as a “fear-mongering campaign.”

Republican officials across the country have largely rejected calls to provide guidance.

When legislators have tried, anti-abortion groups have blocked them.


In 2023, a group of Tennessee Republicans was unable to push through a small change to the state’s abortion ban, intended to give doctors greater leeway when intervening for patients facing health complications.

Again… all of this within the context of a baby in the uterus. Nothing to do when fetal remains are still in the womb

“No one wants to tell their spouse, child or loved one that their life is not important in a medical emergency as you watch them die when they could have been saved,” said Republican Rep. Esther Helton-Haynes, a nurse who sponsored the bill.

So true… and she could have been saved. Had they done a D & C, because the abortion had been done in another state, and not had her waiting, she would have been said. I would look at what the hospital did wrong.

The state’s main anti-abortion lobbyist, Will Brewer, vigorously opposed the change. Some pregnancy complications “work themselves out,” he told a panel of lawmakers. Doctors should be required to “pause and wait this out and see how it goes.”


At some hospitals, doctors are doing just that. Doctors told ProPublica they have seen colleagues disregard the standard of care when their patients are at risk of infection and wait to see if a miscarriage completes naturally before offering a D&C.

Again… bias in that this doesn’t apply to this case. Perhaps they should select a more applicable example?

 

[Pogo]

I believe there is no dispute that a D & C is not part of the “standard procedures” for abortions. D & C is standard procedures in many birth cases. I don’t see bias, from my site, but rather an explanation of what the OP site said… “there was still fetal tissue in her womb” (paraphrased)

So I would dispute that the language was a problem. Please note even in your quotes



Notice this is about “exceptions” when a baby exists in the womb. It has nothing to do when an abortion has already been done and there are fetal tissues still inside.




Again… there is nothing there to apply to this case other than an attempt to gaslight with false applications.



Again… all of this within the context of a baby in the uterus. Nothing to do when fetal remains are still in the womb


So true… and she could have been saved. Had they done a D & C, because the abortion had been done in another state, and not had her waiting, she would have been said. I would look at what the hospital did wrong.


Again… bias in that this doesn’t apply to this case. Perhaps they should select a more applicable example?

Kenny, that you don't agree with everything stated is the problem. You might even be right, but you are not the people trying to deal with these new laws and that is the problem.
Or you might also not be as knowledgeable as you think you are.
It might have been legal if she was there for a miscarriage, but that was not why she presented.
AI Overview
Learn more…Opens in new tab


A dilation and curettage (D&C) is a surgical procedure that can be used for an abortion or to treat other uterine conditions:

• Abortion
  A D&C is a common and safe way to end an early pregnancy. It involves removing the pregnancy tissue and sometimes scraping the uterine lining. A D&C can be a more effective option than a medical abortion for controlling bleeding and pain.
  
  
  
• Other uterine conditions
  A D&C can be used to treat heavy bleeding or to clear the uterine lining after a miscarriage.
  
  
  

 

[Wirey]

This is monstrous. Please explain this like there's a logical portion I don't understand. God wants you to save babies. If a woman dies during this effort, that's completely fine. The purpose of Christianity is for someone who has been told "Judge not, lest ye be judged" to immediately pass judgement on a 15 year old rape victim and play craps with her life. Is this correct?