metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Um, it was the judges, not the Dems, who have done that. If you or I did what Trump repeatedly has said threatening court officials, we'd be in jail.
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Historical Accuracy in Scripture
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Show me Democrats saying they're going to be dictators "On day one only" or just .... ever.
Show me Democrats who fomented an insurrection against the United States Government (which included breaching voting machines and setting up slates of fake electors in seven different states) just so they could stay in power, even though they lost a free and fair election.
Maybe then I can take your comment seriously.
As it is, I don't think you even read the post you were responding to. Or perhaps you're just more concerned with whataboutism than anything else and you're just too far entrenched into your political stance to see Trump for who he actually is. The guy is saying right out loud that he wants to be a dictator, and for whatever reason, his followers can't seem to hear it. Or they like it, maybe. Which is even scarier.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I just gave you the information on this in my last post and you're still perplexed?
Thanks for confirming you didn't even read my post and don't really care about the truth.
Is it possible for you to respond to anything about Trump without saying 'yeah but the Democrats!" ... ??
Whataboutism isn't a good argument for anything. It's actually a poor one that betrays that you already know the behaviour under question is terrible in the first place.
Audie
Veteran Member
I think yours is a much larger question.
For all trump voters.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Take a class in Research Methods 101. They spend a lot of time talking about the importance of comparison to placebos and what double blind studies are. Control groups are STANDARD operating procedure for any study with a medicine etc. You literally don't have to read every journal article to understand that this is how it is done. There HAS to be an unvaccinated control group, or the study is no good and would not get published. I would assume that sometimes the control group is specific to a placebo and others times not (such as when you are comparing two vaccines).
Here is documentation that the Moderna vaccine for Covid 19 was tested against a placebo. "Sixth, the vaccine was tested against a placebo group that was only given a normal saline injection as a negative control." Why Pfizer's or Moderna's CoViD-19 vaccine cannot be 95% effective?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You are mistaken. It is a matter of degree, and the degree with Trump is so great that it sets him apart from other politicians.
Oh, he goes FAR beyond taking care of the borders.
Not at all. The mainstream media has certain standards that they must meet, such as having two sources for a story. Due to this, mistakes are pretty rare. The only medium that got caught actually lying, was FOX, when they ran the story about the voting machines, and they have paid dearly for that lie.
Again, it is a matter of degree. Trump will be noted in history for his effectual use of social media.
Such as calling his adversaries VERMIN, a word right out of the Hitler play book.
For example, his post on Truth Social: "IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I'M COMING AFTER YOU."
A personality cult is a group which shares certain beliefs that idolize their leader to the point of disorting the truth. There were many famous personality cults in history, such as Stalin.
Then you don't get it. He tried 62 times to file lawsuits regarding this, and they were all thrown out because they LACKED FOUNDATION. Even Trump himself said, "Can you believe I lost to this Effing Guy?’ You need to pull your head out of the sand.
Check it out for yourself. 62 lawsuits. All thrown out for lack of foundation. If that's not an abuse of the legal system, I don't know what is.
Ruby Freeman and her daughter Shaye Moss were falsely accused of ballot tampering by Giuliani, who represented Trump. When the accusations were checked, there was no substance to them. These two women have had their lives ruined by the accusation, including death threats. The are suing Giuliani for $43.5 million, and they are certainly going to win.
Really? You are unaware that Trump's campaign arranged for fake electors to try to come and vote in the place of the real electors? Where have you been?
Again, if you are unaware that Trump tried to get Pence to violate the constitution and not certify the electors, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? Are you even aware what happened on Jan 6?
Trump began working up to Jan 6 from the time even before the election, claiming that there was no way Biden could win without cheating. He continued to lie and rouse up his followers after the election. His speech on Jan 6 was simply the culmination. I am positive he knew quite well that his speech would lead to violence, and indeed, that's what he wanted. He sat in the white house dining room watching the insurrection and doing nothing to stop it.
Right now we have extremists on BOTH sides of the aisle threatening free speech. But TRUMP literally used the word TERMINATE in regards to the Constitution. That should give you real chills.
ROFL. You need to get your head out of the sand. They were convicted because they were GUILTY.
It is wrong for any president to abuse their power to punish those who simply disagree with him on policy, or who expect him to follow the law.
OMGosh. If Trump can say he will be dictator "on day one" and it not alarm you, then there is no hope for you.
I believe the machines were used to cheat, and Fox was made to look wrong falsely, because going against "deep state" would have been too dangerous for them.
It is only wrong if not true.
Why is that a problem? If some go first after him, why would he not be allowed to do the same? Why do you think there should be different rules for "Democrats" and Republicans?
Trump said for example in Twitter:
I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump 6. tammik. 2021
I think it is wrong to accuse him for any violence that day. And because he is accused falsely, I think the opposite party is guilty. And it is interesting that the person inciting violence and insurrection that days was Ray Epps. Yet, he is free while the unfortunate white House tourists rot in Biden's dungeons without constitutional rights.
This is the video they don’t want you to see of Ray Epps inciting violence.
This is the video they don’t want you to see of Ray Epps inciting violence.
That Trump is held guilty and Epps is free, tells me that justice is dead in America and the mainstream media is corrupt propaganda arm for Biden's regime that reminds nowadays some kind of third world dictatorship. And it is very sad. US had the greatest constitution in the world and the idea of free people was great. Unfortunately it seems to be almost destroyed entirely.
Please give some source to that?
If it means closing the border, it is not scary, especially if he wins democratically and so has the support of US people for that. If it means something else, then it can be bad. So, what do you think it means?
There should be. I am not convinced there was proper control group. But, thank you for your answer.
At this point it looks like democrats and other anti Trump people orchestrated the January 6th "riot" to make Biden to be the president. The reason why I think so is that they have lied so much. If they would be on the right side, there would not be any reason for the lies.
Ok, by what I know, it is possible that all vaccines are not tested properly against vaccines. For example I understand this news so that in case of Covid, the trial was ended prematurely.
"Other scientists, however, are concerned that losing the placebo group in these trials squanders a critical opportunity to learn about things such as the rate of long-term complications, how long protection against the disease lasts, and how well the vaccines keep people from spreading it even if they don’t get sick themselves."
The debate about ending the placebo in Covid-19 vaccine trials, explained
Thousands of people in clinical trials got the placebo instead of the vaccine. When should they get the vaccine for real?
But, it looks the placebo trial is at least attempted in many cases. Thanks for correction. In a way the Pfizers idea to seal the data for 75 years indicates that they were at least in some way tested, otherwise they would not need to hide it.
Pfizer's 75-year sealed vaccine 'safety data' to be released after judge ruling
Pfizer's 75-year sealed vaccine 'safety data' to be released
PFIZER's full vaccine "safety data" will be released in just months, rather than the 75 years they would have taken, after a US judge's ruling.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
From your link:"Other scientists, however, are concerned that losing the placebo group in these trials squanders a critical opportunity to learn about things such as the rate of long-term complications, how long protection against the disease lasts, and how well the vaccines keep people from spreading it even if they don’t get sick themselves."
The debate about ending the placebo in Covid-19 vaccine trials, explained
Thousands of people in clinical trials got the placebo instead of the vaccine. When should they get the vaccine for real?www.vox.com
"The ongoing phase 3 trial for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine includes 44,000 people, and 22,000 received the placebo. For the Moderna vaccine trial, half of the 30,000 participants got it.
These trials demonstrated that both of these vaccines are highly effective at preventing Covid-19."
So this debate was after the vaccine had already been tested against a placebo and proved to be effective. As is says, the ethical problem was raised later:
"But to get those results, hundreds of people had to get sick, some of them severely ill, and the vast majority of those people received a placebo. And that reality is especially tricky as the trials continue while the vaccines are being distributed to high-priority groups of the general public."
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why believe that even after it's been established that the machines weren't tampered with? Even Barr admitted that!
So, name-calling is using "Vermin" is moral?
A great many Republicans well know and have stated that Trump was behind it, and those convicted have said they were just following Trump's orders.
So, you have no compassion for those in need?
Where's your evidence?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That is why studies are peer reviewed.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
And with that comment, I'm afraid our conversation is over. I have nothing against you personally, and I wish you all the very best. The EVIDENCE indicated there was no problem with the voting machines. You have shown a capacity for denial in the face of evidence that borders on delusional, not just in this post but in your others. I cannot really have a productive conversation when your connection to reality is so loose. Be well.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You believe the machines were used to cheat? Why? What's the evidence of that? (There isn't any.)
They demonstrably lied to their viewers which was proven with their own text messages. Their own text messages betrayed the fact they were deliberately lying to their viewers. Fox News settled that suit because the evidence was heavily against them.
In Testimony, Hannity and Other Fox Employees Said They Doubted Trump’s Fraud Claims (Published 2022)
On Wednesday, lawyers for Dominion Voting Systems shared some of the strongest evidence yet that some Fox employees knew what they broadcast about the claims was false.
"Dominion set out to prove in the lawsuit that Fox acted with malice in airing allegations that it knew to be false, or with “reckless disregard” for the truth. It presented volumes of internal emails and text messages that showed Fox executives and personalities saying they knew the accusations were untrue, even as the falsehoods were aired on programs hosted by Maria Bartiromo, Lou Dobbs and Jeannine Pirro.
Records released as part of the lawsuit showed that Fox aired the claims in part to win back viewers who were fleeing the network after it correctly called hotly contested Arizona for Democrat Joe Biden on election night. One Fox Corp. vice president called them “MIND BLOWINGLY NUTS.”
During a deposition, Murdoch testified that he believed the 2020 election was fair and had not been stolen from Trump."
Fox, Dominion reach $787M settlement over election claims
Fox and Dominion Voting Systems have reached a $787 million settlement in the voting machine company’s defamation lawsuit. The agreement averts a trial in a case that exposed how the top-rated network chased viewers by promoting lies about the 2020 presidential election. Dominion lawyer Justin...
No need to invoke baseless conspiracy theories.
So you also think they are "vermin?" You're cool referring to people using Nazi slurs? You think that's a good idea?
So you're also cool with revenge politics.
LOL! This is the Tweet his family and everyone around him FINALLY convinced him to send, a couple of hours into the breach of the Capitol building.
As the crowd was chanting "Hang Mike Pence," Trump sent out this Tweet:
"Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"
And that's after fomenting the insurrection for months beforehand by claiming over and over the election was stolen from him despite the utter and total lack of evidence of such and after losing 60+ court challenges. Those people didn't just show up at the Capitol all on their own, as they themselves will tell you (which I'm pretty sure I've pointed out to you before):
'Because President Trump said to': Over a dozen Capitol rioters say they were following Trump's guidance
As President Trump's second impeachment trial arrives, Senate Democrats are trying to tie a direct line between his rhetoric and the deadly attack on the Capitol.
“Trump has called all patriots”: 210 Jan. 6th criminal defendants say Trump incited them - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington
210 defendants from 40 states who were charged for their participation in the January 6th insurrection have said they were answering Donald Trump's calls when they traveled to Washington and joined the violent attack on the Capitol.
www.citizensforethics.org
Also, Trump intended to march with the mob but was stopped from doing so by the Secret Service.
He also knew they were armed, but didn't care because he didn't think they would harm him.
This is all documented, and it's kind of alarming to me that you don't seem to be aware of any of it, and seem to want to lean on conspiracy theories instead of reality.
You don't seem to be very well informed about the events under discussion.
Sounds like more conspiracy nonsense.This is the video they don’t want you to see of Ray Epps inciting violence.
This is the video they don’t want you to see of Ray Epps inciting violence.rumble.com
That Trump is held guilty and Epps is free, tells me that justice is dead in America and the mainstream media is corrupt propaganda arm for Biden's regime that reminds nowadays some kind of third world dictatorship. And it is very sad. US had the greatest constitution in the world and the idea of free people was great. Unfortunately it seems to be almost destroyed entirely.
Third world dictatorships let their elites get away with crimes, rather than holding them accountable for their actions. You've got it backwards.
Trump rebuked for call to 'terminate' Constitution over 2020 election results
Former President Donald Trump faced rebuke Sunday from officials in both parties after calling for the “termination” of parts of the Constitution over his lie that the 2020 election was stolen.
www.pbs.org
Ah, so dictators are only scary when they're not carrying out an agenda you agree with?
That's a frightening admission from you.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
There was. You are wrong.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Oh Lordy. How does it "look" like that, exactly?
When you look at the actual evidence, it's obviously Trump and his supporters that planned and carried out the insurrection. They even told us so themselves!
It makes zero sense for democrats to put themselves into that kind of danger just to make Trump look bad or "to make Biden to be the president" (whatever that means) even though he WAS the democratically elected President of the United States. This makes no sense.
Nobody lies more than Trump. Demonstrably so. And yet you swallow up everything he says as the gospel truth while ignoring reality. That's bizarre, cult-like behaviour.
Because they lied about it.
Please give a link, where their plans can be seen and where did they say the plan?
Danger? I don't think there was any danger.
The reasons why I believe so are:
1) It is too difficult for me to believe most people would vote against their own benefit.
2) If they would not have cheated, they would not have to make the fake insurrection.
3) Too much weird things happened in the counting of the votes.
And now you believe what the demonstrated liars say? I don't think the reason to settle the case had anything to do with, was there actual problems with the machines. It seems that own message was just a distraction to leave the actual case.
Even if some claim would not be true, it does not mean the cheating could not have happened by some other way.
If Fox news gives room from alternative view, I think it is good, even if they would not be true, because then it is possible to discuss what is wrong in them. Obviously I think people should not lie, but giving room for alternative views, is not lying.
Calling someone nuts, doesn't really mean anything. The person could be some fanatical democrat who calls everyone nuts, if they don't agree with him. It would be more useful to explain why something is wrong, instead of lousy insults that are usually expressed only when person has nothing intelligent to say.
Who Trump called vermin?
How it is different from "democrats" calling Trump supporters with all kind of slurs?
But, anyway, I think using slurs is not wise, nor good.
How could I deny it from other party, if the other is doing the same?
I hope I would not revenge anything, but denying the right from other group while allowing it to the own group is unjust.
And you think demanding the truth is wrong?
"Over a dozen Capitol rioters say they were following Trump's guidance". Would be nice to know what guidance.'Because President Trump said to': Over a dozen Capitol rioters say they were following Trump's guidance
As President Trump's second impeachment trial arrives, Senate Democrats are trying to tie a direct line between his rhetoric and the deadly attack on the Capitol.abcnews.go.com
"criminal defendants say Trump incited them". Difficult to believe that. It seems they didn't listen him at all. Sounds too much like they were forced to say so, or undercover feds, or fake Trump supporters. After all, if they would have supported Trump, why were they not listening him while he was speaking?“Trump has called all patriots”: 210 Jan. 6th criminal defendants say Trump incited them - CREW | Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington
210 defendants from 40 states who were charged for their participation in the January 6th insurrection have said they were answering Donald Trump's calls when they traveled to Washington and joined the violent attack on the Capitol.
Why do you think so?
Trump said: “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution,”Trump rebuked for call to 'terminate' Constitution over 2020 election results
Former President Donald Trump faced rebuke Sunday from officials in both parties after calling for the “termination” of parts of the Constitution over his lie that the 2020 election was stolen.
If there was a fraud, I think it would violate constitution and the laws of U.S. So, I think it should not require termination of constitution. So, if Trump said so, I think it was stupid and wrong. But, hypothetically, what do you think, if Trump would have won by cheating the same way Biden is accused of winning, would it be ok to settle to the result?
I would say, dictator is not scary, if he wants to do the will of the people and stop illegal immigrants.
Yeah, but was he forced to do so, or did he just hate Trump and wanted to get rid of him?
By what I know, vermin means: "wild animals that are believed to be harmful to crops, farm animals, or game, or that carry disease, e.g., rodents". If people act like that, I think it is not wrong to use that word.
I have compassion to American people. I think it is sad to see their country destroyed.
And those who go illegally there, I would like to ask, why, why not make own country great, instead of going to ruin other country?
I believe so for example because they lied about the event.