Holes in the trinity

[Congregator]

As I said, the scripture at Matthew is fulfilled after Jesus second coming... So no one has inherited the kingdom yet... The inheriting comes after Jesus executes judgement in Gods behalf.... Thus it is inline with the account which states that the kingdom is no part of this world.... After God brings about judgement, he wil establish his heavenly kingdom to rule over mankind.

 

[Congregator]

And yes, I am from South Africa... Needy is kind of a state of indecisiveness (i think you spell it like that)... Or being undecided... Cos you have a choice.... So i do agree with you, is a matter of understanding?!

 

[Congregator]

And kingdom is Gods heavenly government.... Or at least how we discern it.... That is why in Jesus model prayer he said :`Our Father in the heavens, let your kingdom come, let your will take place in heaven as also upon earth`

 

[Congregator]

Oh... And 1 non-religious question... What is frubal?... Written on the side of a post

 

[savagewind]

Oh... And 1 non-religious question... What is frubal?... Written on the side of a post

See the search application on the second ribbon up top? There you can find out everything there is to know about frubals.

Briefly they are popularity points. There is no limit to how many a person can get.

There is a limit to how many infraction points a person can have. It is four and then the poster is restricted. Those are the important points to look out for. Infraction points are frubal opposites, sort of.

Frubals are not important.

 

[savagewind]

Everyone gets 10 free frubals to start. I don't know why.

 

[Congregator]

Thanx, thats cool... Points for being famous... ... And despite what people think, and even the disaster in Nigeria, Africa is a good place to live.... Especially South Africa as it is like the mother country of Africa... Just saying (opinion)

 

[savagewind]

Thanx, thats cool... Points for being famous... ... And despite what people think, and even the disaster in Nigeria, Africa is a good place to live.... Especially South Africa as it is like the mother country of Africa... Just saying (opinion)

Welcome to The Forums!

 

[MeLtiZBleaCh]

I disagree. Love is a human trait and it can be "assigned to" God.

Think of it like this
There are 2 perspectives 1) That of the Creator (God)
2) That of the Creation (Human)

Now If a human creates say a cellphone.
Then the perspective of the cellphone is that it communicates with other cellphones using radiowaves or something text msgs. But it is not neccesary for the same to apply on the creator. Humans certainly dont use radiowaves we use sound waves. But a cellphone would think that human its creator also uses radiowaves for communication because that is the only perspective with which it can think.

I Bet you never thought of that way

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Think of it like this
There are 2 perspectives 1) That of the Creator (God)
2) That of the Creation (Human)

Now If a human creates say a cellphone.
Then the perspective of the cellphone is that it communicates with other cellphones using radiowaves or something text msgs. But it is not neccesary for the same to apply on the creator. Humans certainly dont use radiowaves we use sound waves. But a cellphone would think that human its creator also uses radiowaves for communication because that is the only perspective with which it can think.

I Bet you never thought of that way

Humans also do emit radiowaves.

 

[MeLtiZBleaCh]

Humans also do emit radiowaves.

Then lets continue the rest of our discussion through radiowaves. :sarcastic

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Then lets continue the rest of our discussion through radiowaves. :sarcastic

Why the sarcasm?

 

[BlandOatmeal]

They knew that had not helped the person of Jesus. He said they had helped him and they said "when"? What does when mean?

Shalom.

Savage,

Forgive me, but I still don't understand your point. The people in the parable showed love for the brethren, but not for Jesus personally. Jesus told them that by doing the former, they had actually done the latter: that by serving the brethren, they served him.

I suppose one could understand this various ways. The most "Trinitarian"-type explanation, would be that Jesus was EQUATING himself to the brethren, in the same way that Trinitarians equate Jesus with God. Hence, I jokingly used the term "Multiplernity".

My own understanding is that in this case, as in the case the Trinitarians cite as "evidence" of the Trinity, Jesus is speaking allegorically. We are indeed "in Christ", as so many scriptures say; but this doesn't make us either Jesus, Messiah or God. We relate to Jesus, we relate to God, and Jesus relates to God in much the same way: If we follow Jesus, we are also following God; and if we follow God, we are also following Jesus; and if we thus follow Jesus and God, others who follow us (as when Paul said, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.") are also following Jesus and God. Trinitarians pick and choose when and how they wish to apply these things, ignoring the bulk of scriptures.

Since I don't, and apparently am unable to, understand your question, I doubt that I have answered it.

 

[savagewind]

Savage,

Forgive me, but I still don't understand your point. The people in the parable showed love for the brethren, but not for Jesus personally. Jesus told them that by doing the former, they had actually done the latter: that by serving the brethren, they served him.

I suppose one could understand this various ways. The most "Trinitarian"-type explanation, would be that Jesus was EQUATING himself to the brethren, in the same way that Trinitarians equate Jesus with God. Hence, I jokingly used the term "Multiplernity".

My own understanding is that in this case, as in the case the Trinitarians cite as "evidence" of the Trinity, Jesus is speaking allegorically. We are indeed "in Christ", as so many scriptures say; but this doesn't make us either Jesus, Messiah or God. We relate to Jesus, we relate to God, and Jesus relates to God in much the same way: If we follow Jesus, we are also following God; and if we follow God, we are also following Jesus; and if we thus follow Jesus and God, others who follow us (as when Paul said, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.") are also following Jesus and God. Trinitarians pick and choose when and how they wish to apply these things, ignoring the bulk of scriptures.

Since I don't, and apparently am unable to, understand your question, I doubt that I have answered it.

I tend to agree with your interpretaion. My question is not about what Jesus said to the ones asking. My question is about why the ones asking said "when?" . They did not say "how?". He answered the question HOW not the question WHEN. Why they asked when and why he answered how is a mystery to me.

 

[savagewind]

It is believed the prophesy is for the end. Correct? END is when. They asked when not how. There is no one that lives during the end of days that believes that needy poor person they did good to is Jesus Christ. Or maybe someone does, that's not the point.

NOW that the prophesy comes down to us and we all know what it means (giggle) there is no one to ask him "when Lord?" So who are those people?

 

[Congregator]

It is believed the prophesy is for the end. Correct? END is when. They asked when not how. There is no one that lives during the end of days that believes that needy poor person they did good to is Jesus Christ. Or maybe someone does, that's not the point.

NOW that the prophesy comes down to us and we all know what it means (giggle) there is no one to ask him "when Lord?" So who are those people?

I must say the irony in this is 'o how greatly appreciated... Really... I thöught this matter of 'when' was settled already... The fact is that this scripture sees filfillment only in end times (we realise)... Then in the end times, Jesus will be seated on his throne to execute judgement on the righteous and unrighteous.... while this is happening, the great crowd of people who are righteous will ask him how it is they are counted righteous as they do not recall being hospitable to Jesus... but in effect, they were counted righteous by the deeds that they performed to the lowly /poor /needy (dependent on translation) people... So simply püt, the when (after correcting my previous statement) does not occur now (as judgement did not take place yet) and the people are those who survive Jesus judgement (righteous).

 

[Walkntune]

I believe you. It is obvious anyone who will take the rule which is God's rule is not for the Kingdom.

Matthew 21:35:33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

But I think you mean the kingdom is in you, not you in the kingdom. Is that correct?

Yes your correct.

 

[yokomodoful]

Jesus is before Abraham in importance, not time.

In exodus 3
When Moses asked God what should I tell the Israelites what your name is. God said I am who I am.

Jesus said before abraham was, I am.

 

[Shermana]

In exodus 3
When Moses asked God what should I tell the Israelites what your name is. God said I am who I am.

Jesus said before abraham was, I am.

The name is actually "I shall be" and it is given as an actual name, not a mere statement of existence but a Title itself.

And Jesus does not say "My name is I am" or "I am I am".

And what Jesus actually says is "I have been", as many prominent Trinitarian professors and grammarians have stated.

So Jesus is only claiming to have existed in one form or another since before Abraham. He is not at all identifying to be "The I am", but merely stating that he existed. Several times, the verb of the "Present Active indicative" is in fact used for the past tense, especially in keeping up with "Before Abraham was". They were picking up stones because he was essentially declaring to be A divine being, not THE.

Meanwhile, the beggar in John 9:9 says "I am" (Ego Eimi), no one was stoning him for it.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

In exodus 3
When Moses asked God what should I tell the Israelites what your name is. God said I am who I am.

Jesus said before abraham was, I am.

I've never heard that spin on things. It's interesting. It wouldn't have been the first time Jesus redirected a wrong question to the things that really mattered:

John 8
[52] Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
[53] Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? [Yes he is, in a sense, because Abraham is dead and Jesus is Alive -- silly question. It's easy to talk about the dead, who cannot respond. Their problem was that they would not receive the living; and that living one had been sent to them by God.]
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
[55] Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. [Jesus' day was the day they were living in, which Abraham foresaw by faith in God's promises to him: that through him, all the world would be blessed].
[57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

The Jews were attacking Jesus, while hypocritically claiming to be defenders of Abraham's dignity. If Abraham were alive, of course, he would have told them to shut up and listen to Jesus. Jesus is speaking the truth of God's word to them; and it is this truth (which existed long before Abraham) that they reject: The whole "indignity on behalf of Abraham" was a sham. If Jesus had spoken flattering words, instead of the truth, they would have received him.

I think it's fun here, to realize how very ordinary Jesus looked -- so ordinary, that he could melt right into the crowd. Another instance showing this, was when Judas had to go up to kiss him, so the Jews could be sure they had the right man.