Holes in the trinity

[sojourner]

Look, rejecting Jehovah God's son, any of God's inspired word including the Christian Greek scriptures, failiing to do the entire will of God, adhering to His commands and those of His son, clearly means that one does NOT love Jehovah God.

There are lots of authentic texts not included in your bible. Do you reject them? If so, does that clearly mean that you don't love God?

And before you begin to spout about agendas of pagan God-haters, let me enlighten you as to why your "Protestant bible" only has 66 books: because the original canon texts of the church were based on the LXX. Martin Luther cut the number back to only include the ones that are in the Jewish bible. So, the cue as to what was "authentic" and what was not was taken from a Lutheran (founder of a "Godless sect" called Lutheranism) and the "Godless Jews" who "reject God's Son." So... how does it feel to know that your "bible truth" comes from the very ones you so easily dismiss here?

 

[sojourner]

Morphen is Strong's 3444 It means - form, shape, outward appearance. That makes alittle more sense now doesnt it? Jesus is the Son of God. God is the God and Father of Jesus. David is also his father. So, I really dont understand why you keep on bringing this word incarnate in. lol

That's why the English text says "...found in human form." You'd have to really torture the meaning of the Greek to make it not mean "became human." To the Greek thought, "form" is substance.

Again, no it doesnt.

Yah it does. You have to understand Greek thought in order to understand the nuances of the language.

The "Word" is God's Word or the Word of God. His plans, thoughts, reasons. The "logos". Now in verse 14 God's Word becomes flesh. Jesus is God's Word made flesh.

Yes, and the text says "...the word was God." So, the word -- which is God -- becomes flesh. Voila! Incarnation.

God does not change.

Again, you're choosing to ignore context and meaning.

You believe that because your told that at your church.

I believe that because that's what the texts imply, and because that's what the church authorities say. There's nothing wrong (and everything right) with following the lead of the church's leaders where matters of theology are concerned.

God did not become incarnate.

The apostles disagree with you.

 

[Katzpur]

Look, rejecting Jehovah God's son, any of God's inspired word including the Christian Greek scriptures, failiing to do the entire will of God, adhering to His commands and those of His son, clearly means that one does NOT love Jehovah God. One cannot claim to love Him and only take bits and pieces of His messages for us and commands for us. It's ALL or NOTHING. No in between. You either love Him and do ALL He requires, or you don't love Him. One cannot pick and choose, otherwise that one is a hypocrite. All the complaining and arguing in the world cannot change any of these facts.

I would agree that God expects us to keep His commandments, and that His Son, Jesus Christ did, in fact, say, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." I'm not disputing that in the slightest, and I don't think the other posters here are disputing it either. What you are saying is that we must believe exactly as you do, we must interpret the scriptures exactly as you do, and we must live our lives in exactly the way you say is in accordance with what is taught in scripture. You are judging sojourner, Tumah and me. You are calling us hypocrites because we disagree with your interpretation of scripture, and are setting yourself in a position of superiority over us. I'm really not sure what you think you are going to accomplish by these methods, but I'm fairly certain you're not making any positive progress whatsoever. It might be time to consider a different approach. That's all I have to say.

 

[truthofscripture]

I would agree that God expects us to keep His commandments, and that His Son, Jesus Christ did, in fact, say, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." I'm not disputing that in the slightest, and I don't think the other posters here are disputing it either. What you are saying is that we must believe exactly as you do, we must interpret the scriptures exactly as you do, and we must live our lives in exactly the way you say is in accordance with what is taught in scripture. You are judging sojourner, Tumah and me. You are calling us hypocrites because we disagree with your interpretation of scripture, and are setting yourself in a position of superiority over us. I'm really not sure what you think you are going to accomplish by these methods, but I'm fairly certain you're not making any positive progress whatsoever. It might be time to consider a different approach. That's all I have to say.

There you go. You are inventing things. I never said "believe exactly as I do", you did. I never interpret any scripture, ever. That must also be you. I am not judging anyone, just stating facts. I am not setting myself up in any position at all, especially one of superiority. Those things you imagine. I state what the scriptures say, not what I think they say, that would be interpreting, and they say we are to never interpret one word of them, that belongs only to God. It says they stand on their own merit, and not to rely on our own understanding, so I don't. Sojourner has been nothing short of extremely rude and denegrading. Constantly posting when I put sojourner on my ignore list for poor behavior and unrelenting stalking. Stop inventing things and putting words into other's mouths. I am calling you hypocrites because of claims of loving God and yet ignoring half of what He said, and ignoring His son and his sacrifice on our behalf, and for ignoring God's and Jesus' commands. Saying you love Him and doing these things is totally hypocritical.

 

[sojourner]

I never interpret any scripture, ever.

You absolutely interpret scripture, because there are language, culture, contextual, bias, and meaning barriers to be sifted through. Even the writers interpret what they write. This is one of the things that leads me to believe that you're not the scholastic titan you claim to be.

I state what the scriptures say, not what I think they say, that would be interpreting, and they say we are to never interpret one word of them, that belongs only to God.

But you do state what you think they say. Everyone does who reads them.

Constantly posting when I put sojourner on my ignore list for poor behavior and unrelenting stalking.

If you think I'm stalking then Report. Me. I'm free to answer whatever posts I wish to answer, and if I prefer to refute the drivel you're posting in order to clarify things for everyone, I'll do it. Thank you. The fact that you've become frustrated with my rebuttals due to your inability to overcome them, is why you've placed me on "ignore." Your weak arguments and fallacies aren't my problem. Stop posting the entitled "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" crap, and I'll stop responding to that.

I am not judging anyone, just stating facts.

Stating that someone "doesn't love God" isn't a fact -- it's a judgment, based not on fact, but on your belief.

I am calling you hypocrites because of claims of loving God and yet ignoring half of what He said,

God said nothing. The writers wrote things, but that's a completely different matter. You see? You're making judgments based on your belief -- not stating facts.

Saying you love Him and doing these things is totally hypocritical.

You don't get to be the rule-setter for what constitutes "loving God." IOW, what Katz said is correct: We have to do things your way in order to not e hypocrites.

 

[Katzpur]

There you go. You are inventing things. I never said "believe exactly as I do", you did. I never interpret any scripture, ever. That must also be you. I am not judging anyone, just stating facts. I am not setting myself up in any position at all, especially one of superiority. Those things you imagine. I state what the scriptures say, not what I think they say, that would be interpreting, and they say we are to never interpret one word of them, that belongs only to God. It says they stand on their own merit, and not to rely on our own understanding, so I don't. Sojourner has been nothing short of extremely rude and denegrading. Constantly posting when I put sojourner on my ignore list for poor behavior and unrelenting stalking. Stop inventing things and putting words into other's mouths. I am calling you hypocrites because of claims of loving God and yet ignoring half of what He said, and ignoring His son and his sacrifice on our behalf, and for ignoring God's and Jesus' commands. Saying you love Him and doing these things is totally hypocritical.

Well, I tried. Have a nice life, truthofscripture.

 

[truthofscripture]

Well, I tried. Have a nice life, truthofscripture.

You tried what?

 

[Katzpur]

You tried what?

I tried to help you be more effective as a communicator here on RF, and to help people understand your point of view without alienating them.

 

[truthofscripture]

I tried to help you be more effective as a communicator here on RF, and to help people understand your point of view without alienating them.

I see. I thought you were trying to show me where I was wrong in my beliefs. If they get alienated at what I say, then I really don't want to speak to them anyway. They will never accept the truth. I don't have time to spend hundreds of posts on one who doesn't have a burning desire for truth. I don't want to convince anyone of anything. I just want them to search out the truth for themselves, and almost none of them ever will.

 

[.kaleb]

No. Jesus is God's only first hand creation, the "firstborn of all creation". He was not equal to his Father, but subservient to Him, as he is now. He was sent by his Father, prayed to Him, was resurrected by Him. Would one pray to ones self, be sent by ones self, be subservient to ones self? Can one beget ones self? No, it's iimpossible. Plus Jesus and God Himself both said several times that God is father, Jesus is son. The teaching that God and Jesus are the same comes from false religions claiming to be Christian. Only Christianity is Christian. It is what Jesus taught while on Earth. After his death, many sects/denominations began to appear. They are Christendom, not Christian, although they claim to be. They are most certainly not. They teach the lies most people believe, like Jesus dying on a cross and not a toruture stake, immortality of the soul, hell fire, and many other lies. Only an accurate translation of the inspired word of God is approved by God, none of the false religions or their false teachings are God approved. The false religions are called "works of the flesh" and "Babylon the Great". If God approved them, why are they called these things? Why are they said to be destined for destruction in the final battle?

Preaching to the converted me thinks...

 

[.kaleb]

I feel bad that anyone would take the position as you do, since I know their fate....

You may want to be a little careful saying those kind of things. You don't know the fate of anyone. Whilst there is still a window of opportunity open before the GT comes, it's best to view all as a lost sheep, rather than a lost cause

 

[sojourner]

If they get alienated at what I say, then I really don't want to speak to them anyway.

...Because that's the mark of a real teacher...

They will never accept the truth.

We may never accept your truth...

I don't have time to spend hundreds of posts on one who doesn't have a burning desire for truth.

Translation: "If you don't agree with me, I don't have time for ya."

I just want them to search out the truth for themselves, and almost none of them ever will.

many of us have spent a lifetime searching out truth -- and continue to do so, despite the roadblocks you keep throwing up.

 

[Muffled]

The scriptures do not teach a trinity. It is a pagan belief only.

I believe the idea that the scriptures don't teach a trinity is a pagan belief since it is contrary to scripture.

 

[Muffled]

Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.

I believe this is one of the places where JW's just throw in the name in place of Lord as though the original text should have it. I believe that is toatally unjustified.

 

[Muffled]

You may want to be a little careful saying those kind of things. You don't know the fate of anyone. Whilst there is still a window of opportunity open before the GT comes, it's best to view all as a lost sheep, rather than a lost cause

I don't believe in having JW's as my judge. Jesus is my judge and He approves of me.

 

[truthofscripture]

I believe this is one of the places where JW's just throw in the name in place of Lord as though the original text should have it. I believe that is toatally unjustified.

It IS in the original texts. It is the mistranslated versions that changed it. Jehovah, or the tetragrammaton for His name, appears over 7,000 times in the originals. You can not believe it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.

 

[truthofscripture]

I believe the idea that the scriptures don't teach a trinity is a pagan belief since it is contrary to scripture.

It is ABSOLUTELY not a pagan belief that the scriptures don't teach a trinity. The idea of a trinity is STRICTLY a pagan belief adopted by Christendom in 325 c.e. The scriptures do not, and NEVER DID teach a trinity. Ever. Only in deliberate mistranslations is it supported. Only in the translations supported by the false religions of Christendom can it be found. It is not a Christian belief, but one of Christendom. Christian is what Jesus taught, Christendom is what Constantine taught.

 

[sojourner]

It IS in the original texts.

No it's not, because "Jehovah" isn't original to the texts.

 

[.kaleb]

I don't believe in having JW's as my judge. Jesus is my judge and He approves of me.

I'll speak for myself... As a JW I make it my business not to judge anyone. I'll leave that to Jesus. However there will be a judging of this world, thankfully that is out of my jurasdiction as well.

 

[.kaleb]

I believe this is one of the places where JW's just throw in the name in place of Lord as though the original text should have it. I believe that is toatally unjustified.

Really? What are reasons for saying so?