Holes in the trinity

[sojourner]

No, not at all. Incarnate is not used in scripture. Words like manifest is.

The word used in Philippians is morphen -- becoming in the likeness of humans.

Incarnate means to change into something else.

Well, what do you think the word "moprh" means?? The Greek text doesn't lie.
Additionally, in John 1, the Word -- which was God -- became flesh and lived among us. To "become flesh" is to... well... incarnate.

God does not change.

Apparently, according to the texts, God does change. Again, God's "unchangeability" has less to do with God's form than it does with God's love for us -- God's relationship with us.

Are you saying that God changed into Jesus?

No, I'm merely reiterating what the texts tell us -- chiefly that God became Incarnate.

Your bringing words into scripture.

That's largely the process of translation, exegesis, and interpretation. What's your point?

 

[truthofscripture]

In other words your answer is:
You make good points that I can't argue against Tumah. But I can't admit to your winning the argument. So instead I'll just duck out.

Sayonara

it's amazing how you can imagine in your mind what you wish I'd answer you with. It speaks volumes on how your mind works, which to me, makes no sense.

 

[feneluscliff]

You say Jesus is God. But Jesus is God's son. Do you believe in the trinity that God and Jesus is one and that Jesus is God's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe God has a beginning?

The real question here is are you willing to learn and submit your self to the conviction of the holy spirit and to the teaching of the word of God? If not I waste not my time help you!

 

[Tumah]

Oh most certainly not. I disagree with your viewpoint totally and completely. I cannot reject half of God's inspired word as you promote. I cannot consider any words of man over the word of God the Almighty, Jehovah, as you promote. I feel bad that anyone would take the position as you do, since I know their fate. Maybe someday you will seek out the truth, but I am not holding my breath.

You mean half of man's falsified word. No problem. I understand.

 

[truthofscripture]

You mean half of man's falsified word. No problem. I understand.

No. I mean the inspired word of God, Jehovah. If false, it wouldn't mesh like a hand in a glove with the Pentateuch, and nothing in the Greek Christian Scriptures would work as advertised, and they clearly do. It may be a better idea to stop taking the word of other men as to what to believe, and instead, do your own personal research and study. Don't feel bad if you don't, because most of the inhabited Earth do not think for themselves either.

 

[Tumah]

No. I mean the inspired word of God, Jehovah. If false, it wouldn't mesh like a hand in a glove with the Pentateuch, and nothing in the Greek Christian Scriptures would work as advertised, and they clearly do. It may be a better idea to stop taking the word of other men as to what to believe, and instead, do your own personal research and study. Don't feel bad if you don't, because most of the inhabited Earth do not think for themselves either.

That's right. Everyone else in the world is crazy except for you.

 

[truthofscripture]

That's right. Everyone else in the world is crazy except for you.

You keep inventing things. Are you in need of help? there are meds that can help a condition like that.

 

[Tumah]

You keep inventing things. Are you in need of help? there are meds that can help a condition like that.

Ok sir.

 

[truthofscripture]

Ok sir.

I don't suppose you've ever taken the tiime to think what would happen if you considered that all that you were taught, learned at school, and learned at temple, wasn't quite right. That indeed the rest of the Bible including the Christian Greek scriptures were accurate and what you are and have been taught is wrong. There is a scripture that says that Satan has been and is misleading the entire inhabited Earth, and woe to the Earth because Satan has been cast down to Earth. That he is angry knowing he has but a short time left. I mean, what if they're all wrong (those teaching you that only the Tanakh is the word of God) and it will cost you your life in the end? What if you realized that you have never been doing the will of God the Almighty? And if you realized these things, what would you do? How would you feel? Would you change your path?

 

[Tumah]

I don't suppose you've ever taken the tiime to think what would happen if you considered that all that you were taught, learned at school, and learned at temple, wasn't quite right. That indeed the rest of the Bible including the Christian Greek scriptures were accurate and what you are and have been taught is wrong. There is a scripture that says that Satan has been and is misleading the entire inhabited Earth, and woe to the Earth because Satan has been cast down to Earth. That he is angry knowing he has but a short time left. I mean, what if they're all wrong (those teaching you that only the Tanakh is the word of God) and it will cost you your life in the end? What if you realized that you have never been doing the will of God the Almighty? And if you realized these things, what would you do? How would you feel? Would you change your path?

The difference between me and you is that I can read Scriptures in their original Hebrew form for myself. I don't need to rely on translators that pump their agenda into the passages. So the real question is: Have you ever opened up the the Hebrew and studied it on your own? Just you and the unadulterated words on the page? You'll be surprised. Without the NT to shadow your understanding, you're understanding of Scriptures will be very different indeed.

 

[truthofscripture]

The difference between me and you is that I can read Scriptures in their original Hebrew form for myself. I don't need to rely on translators that pump their agenda into the passages. So the real question is: Have you ever opened up the the Hebrew and studied it on your own? Just you and the unadulterated words on the page? You'll be surprised. Without the NT to shadow your understanding, you're understanding of Scriptures will be very different indeed.

Every word of the Tanakh, and the Christian Greek scriptures, for almost 50 years, yes I have. And it's not really the "New Testament". That's a term applied by religionists, not by God Himself. They are Christian Greek scriptures. Nothing new about them. Nothing old about the Tanakh or "old testament". They are one in the same. Both mesh perfectly and harmonize perfectly with no exclusions, mysteries, or contradictions whatsoever. There are mostly mistranslated versions of the Christian Greek scriptures. In fact, there are only two or three that are not adulterated. Most of the Bibles used today stem from a moronic pagan Emperor in the early fourth century. Later, they were re-adulterated by kings, parliaments, religions, idiots, and political entities throughout the ages. Those religions claiming to be "Christian", are not. They are pagan to a small or large degree. All of them. Christianity is what Jesus taught. He taught no religion whatsoever. People turned it into a religion, as people turned the law covenant into a religion called Judaism. The pagan religions, sadly, still exist all over the world today. That is why very few will remain alive after the Great Day of God the Almighty. Maybe ten or less million globe wide. Pretty sad when you think about it.

 

[Tumah]

Every word of the Tanakh, and the Christian Greek scriptures, for almost 50 years, yes I have. And it's not really the "New Testament". That's a term applied by religionists, not by God Himself. They are Christian Greek scriptures. Nothing new about them. Nothing old about the Tanakh or "old testament". They are one in the same. Both mesh perfectly and harmonize perfectly with no exclusions, mysteries, or contradictions whatsoever. There are mostly mistranslated versions of the Christian Greek scriptures. In fact, there are only two or three that are not adulterated. Most of the Bibles used today stem from a moronic pagan Emperor in the early fourth century. Later, they were re-adulterated by kings, parliaments, religions, idiots, and political entities throughout the ages. Those religions claiming to be "Christian", are not. They are pagan to a small or large degree. All of them. Christianity is what Jesus taught. He taught no religion whatsoever. People turned it into a religion, as people turned the law covenant into a religion called Judaism. The pagan religions, sadly, still exist all over the world today. That is why very few will remain alive after the Great Day of God the Almighty. Maybe ten or less million globe wide. Pretty sad when you think about it.

Yadda, yadda yadda.
Let's open a thread and go through it verse by verse in the Hebrew and see what comes out of it.

 

[truthofscripture]

Yadda, yadda yadda.
Let's open a thread and go through it verse by verse in the Hebrew and see what comes out of it.

You must think that I am sitting here bored. I assure I am not. I am a very busy man. In fact, I am about to leave for the bank and Costco. Then I have to prepare for teaching this evening, which will take most of the afternoon. I haven't got time to do what you propose, nor is there any reason for it. If you're that interested, you can sit in on the assemblies every Tuesday evening, Thursday evening, or Sunday afternoon and learn there. Plus, I will not go over anything that does not include the entirety of the scriptures, not what you claim are just the Pentateuch. It includes the Christian Greek scriptures also. Anyway, no time and no profit in it and no desire to do it. I know what I need to know and teach what I need to teach. Leave it at that. You yourself should go through the Bible, not the Tanakh, cover to cover, word for word, comparing EACH scripture to EACH OTHER scripture, and possibly, if Jehovah uses holy spirit in your case, you may come to an understanding of what they all have to teach.

 

[Tumah]

You must think that I am sitting here bored. I assure I am not. I am a very busy man. In fact, I am about to leave for the bank and Costco. Then I have to prepare for teaching this evening, which will take most of the afternoon. I haven't got time to do what you propose, nor is there any reason for it. If you're that interested, you can sit in on the assemblies every Tuesday evening, Thursday evening, or Sunday afternoon and learn there. Plus, I will not go over anything that does not include the entirety of the scriptures, not what you claim are just the Pentateuch. It includes the Christian Greek scriptures also. Anyway, no time and no profit in it and no desire to do it. I know what I need to know and teach what I need to teach. Leave it at that. You yourself should go through the Bible, not the Tanakh, cover to cover, word for word, comparing EACH scripture to EACH OTHER scripture, and possibly, if Jehovah uses holy spirit in your case, you may come to an understanding of what they all have to teach.

So basically you talk big, but not able to put your money where your mouth is. No problem. I understand you're a very busy man. But you're not going to in any debates that way here.

 

[truthofscripture]

So basically you talk big, but not able to put your money where your mouth is. No problem. I understand you're a very busy man. But you're not going to in any debates that way here.

I see no benefit in doing what you ask of me whatsoever. You are free of course to believe what you want, but I have no desire, or time for that, and there isn't a wit of benefit in it. Why are you afraid of doing it on your own? Do the scriptures not tell us to check the scriptures to see if ANYTHING we are told is true?

 

[Tumah]

I see no benefit in doing what you ask of me whatsoever. You are free of course to believe what you want, but I have no desire, or time for that, and there isn't a wit of benefit in it. Why are you afraid of doing it on your own? Do the scriptures not tell us to check the scriptures to see if ANYTHING we are told is true?

Why is the onus on me? I am willing to make a thread with you in a public forum going through verses and passages in the original Hebrew to see if they say what you claim they say. Simple as that. You'll either be right or wrong.

 

[truthofscripture]

Why is the onus on me? I am willing to make a thread with you in a public forum going through verses and passages in the original Hebrew to see if they say what you claim they say. Simple as that. You'll either be right or wrong.

Why do you feel that you are unable to do this on your own time? I already indicated that I don't have the time or inclination for such a project that is so time consuming. You are completely capable of doing that on your own. What do you propose that I give up and ignore for your benefit, and not mine?

 

[Tumah]

Why do you feel that you are unable to do this on your own time? I already indicated that I don't have the time or inclination for such a project that is so time consuming. You are completely capable of doing that on your own. What do you propose that I give up and ignore for your benefit, and not mine?

Why do you assume it would be to my benefit? I think it will be beneficial for you to go through it with me so that I can correct your mistakes.

 

[sojourner]

I don't suppose you've ever taken the tiime to think what would happen if you considered that all that you were taught, learned at school, and learned at temple, wasn't quite right.

I don't suppose you've ever taken the time to consider that all you were taught and learned at church and bible study wasn't quite right. Other people have faith just as strong as yours, a relationship with God just as intimate as yours, a brain that cognates just as quickly as yours, and a heart that feels just as deeply as yours, and yet they come to different conclusions where the bible and God are concerned. Yet, your faith, relationship, cognition, and self-differentiation are apparently not strong enough to stand those differences without disrespecting everyone else and tearing down everyone who happens to disagree with you.

 

[Shak34]

You must think that I am sitting here bored. I assure I am not. I am a very busy man. In fact, I am about to leave for the bank and Costco. Then I have to prepare for teaching this evening, which will take most of the afternoon. I haven't got time to do what you propose, nor is there any reason for it. If you're that interested, you can sit in on the assemblies every Tuesday evening, Thursday evening, or Sunday afternoon and learn there. Plus, I will not go over anything that does not include the entirety of the scriptures, not what you claim are just the Pentateuch. It includes the Christian Greek scriptures also. Anyway, no time and no profit in it and no desire to do it. I know what I need to know and teach what I need to teach. Leave it at that. You yourself should go through the Bible, not the Tanakh, cover to cover, word for word, comparing EACH scripture to EACH OTHER scripture, and possibly, if Jehovah uses holy spirit in your case, you may come to an understanding of what they all have to teach.

After reading a lot of your posts, I wonder if you really are a Jehovah Witness or are you just trying to make them look crazier than what most view them as. Your terminology is a little off. In this particular post you called the weekly meetings assemblies. Assemblies are something different and are not held three times a week, but a few times a year (possibly more or less, it has been awhile since my association with the organization). So I wonder, what "truth" you are really trying to represent?