Revelation 3:14 - The Lord makes an announcement to the angel. 'Amen' is the proper name of the Lord Jesus Christ. See 2 Corinthians 1:20,21. 'The faithful and true witness' is Jesus Christ. 'The beginning of God's creation' is also Christ, but it's not to be understood in the passive sense, but in the active sense. In other words, it means 'the beginner', not 'the first created'. How do we know this? Because the same writer, John, wrote in John 14:23, 'Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.' If Christ were the first created it would not be possible for the Spirit of the Father and Son to 'make our abode' in him (ie in those that love Christ).
I must admit, I don't quite see the connection with John 14:23.
I believe the scriptures indicate that Jesus had a definite beginning, that Jehovah caused him into existence.
The scriptures I believe prove this in particular is proverbs 8:22-30. Now most trinitarians that I have discussed this passage with simply dismiss it as talking about wisdom. And certainly the first part of chapter 8 certainly is talking about wisdom, almost attributing personality to the quality.
But the context changes from vs 22 onwards, and I'd be very interested in your break down of it, and to avoid as much bias as possible, I'll use the byington as the translation.
(Byington)
Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah framed me first in line, foremost of his works in the past."
Some translations say possessed or produced rather than framed. More than just wisdom must be involved here, for that quality never was "produced, or framed".
It never began to exist because Jehovah has always existed and he has always been wise. So what is being talked about here?
Vs 23 Of old I was constituted, at first before the origins of earth.
• who is the "I" being mentioned here?
Vs 24 When there were no deeps I came to birth, when there were no springs, sources of water;
• who came to birth?
Vs 25 Earlier than mountains I was planted, before hills I came to birth,
• construction or formation of the earth is being described, but still, identification of the one coming to birth is required.
Vs 26 When he had not made earth and open spaces and the multitudinous particles of the soil of the world.
• who is the "he" do you think mentioned here?
Vs 27 When he fastened the sky I was there, when he arched a vault over the face of the deep,
• again, who is the "he" & who is the "I"?
Vs 28 When he braced the ether above, when he fortified the springs of the deep,
Vs 29 When he set his limit for the sea and water does not overstep his dictate, When he strengthened the foundations of earth,
Vs 30 I was master-workman at his side And was taking my pleasure day by day, playing before him at every time,
•Who is the master worker that as vs 24 & 25 says "came to birth?"
Bear in mind, the time frame is dealing with construction of the earth.
- the master workman was at his side? Whose side?
The King James Version says in vs 31: Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Who is being described in these verses? What are the implications?
