Holes in the trinity

[Mountain_Climber]

1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

It seems that denial often runs contrary to evidence.

 

[Muffled]

It IS in the original texts. It is the mistranslated versions that changed it. Jehovah, or the tetragrammaton for His name, appears over 7,000 times in the originals. You can not believe it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.

I believe the original scholars were corrupt in their thinking and that followers just parrot it as though it were true. Have you ever seen the oringal manuscripts?

 

[Muffled]

It is ABSOLUTELY not a pagan belief that the scriptures don't teach a trinity. The idea of a trinity is STRICTLY a pagan belief adopted by Christendom in 325 c.e. The scriptures do not, and NEVER DID teach a trinity. Ever. Only in deliberate mistranslations is it supported. Only in the translations supported by the false religions of Christendom can it be found. It is not a Christian belief, but one of Christendom. Christian is what Jesus taught, Christendom is what Constantine taught.

I believe you are so misguided that you can't see the truth of scripture and it is no use talking to you because your concepts are totally pagan.

 

[Muffled]

No it's not, because "Jehovah" isn't original to the texts.

Have you seen the original texts?

 

[savagewind]

Have you seen the original texts?

The word "Jehovah" is a modern word. Also, the original texts were not written in the language which originated the name Jehovah.

 

[sojourner]

Have you seen the original texts?

No need. The development of "Jehovah" as a mush-word between the Tetragrammaton and Adonai is well-documented. But yes. I have viewed some very early written texts. Since ancient Hebrew has no vowels and no points, YHVH is what appears in the texts.

 

[savagewind]

No need. The development of "Jehovah" as a mush-word between the Tetragrammaton and Adonai is well-documented. But yes. I have viewed some very early written texts. Since ancient Hebrew has no vowels and no points, YHVH is what appears in the texts.

יְהוָ֛ה

 

[paarsurrey]

You say Jesus is God. But Jesus is God's son. Do you believe in the trinity that God and Jesus is one and that Jesus is God's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe God has a beginning?

Holes in the trinity

It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

Regards

 

[sojourner]

Holes in the trinity

It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

Regards

1) we don't know what Jesus or Mary believed.
2) the term doesn't have to be mentioned for the concept to be a valid construction.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Holes in the trinity
It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

Regards

1) we don't know what Jesus or Mary believed.
2) the term doesn't have to be mentioned for the concept to be a valid construction.

I don't agree with you.

Regards

 

[savagewind]

1) we don't know what Jesus or Mary believed.
2) the term doesn't have to be mentioned for the concept to be a valid construction.

I think we can agree no one knows what Mary believed, but Jesus? LOL I Know what Jesus believes and I suppose it is what he believed then also. I am sure he did not change his mind to satisfy us. Do you?
It is true a modern word need not be mentioned in an ancient world for happening then or now. Good catch!

 

[sojourner]

LOL I Know what Jesus believes and I suppose it is what he believed then also. I am sure he did not change his mind to satisfy us. Do you?

"Knowing what Jesus believed" is slippery ground at best for a couple of reasons. First, we don't have ANY first hand accounts of Jesus -- he wrote nothing, and what is written about him was written by people who didn't know him and had never met or seen him. Second, they mythic nature of what is written about him precludes any certainty about Jesus. We can't be certain beyond a doubt that there even was a Jesus, although indications are that there was such a person. Third, the span of time between the Jesus Event and the first gospel is so great as to assure that what the gospelers choose to have Jesus say is likely biased by their own belief over any objective "news reporting."

What we have, really, is what the second generation after Jesus believed.

 

[sojourner]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Holes in the trinity
It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

Regards



I don't agree with you.

Regards

We're all very happy for you in your arrival at disagreement. It must have been quite an accomplishment; your mother must be very proud.

 

[savagewind]

"Knowing what Jesus believed" is slippery ground at best for a couple of reasons. First, we don't have ANY first hand accounts of Jesus -- he wrote nothing, and what is written about him was written by people who didn't know him and had never met or seen him. Second, they mythic nature of what is written about him precludes any certainty about Jesus. We can't be certain beyond a doubt that there even was a Jesus, although indications are that there was such a person. Third, the span of time between the Jesus Event and the first gospel is so great as to assure that what the gospelers choose to have Jesus say is likely biased by their own belief over any objective "news reporting."

What we have, really, is what the second generation after Jesus believed.

Are you deaf or has Jesus not knocked at your door yet?

 

[sojourner]

Are you deaf or has Jesus not knocked at your door yet?

The JWs knocked just the other day, and then the Mormons came by. Isn't that the same thing?

 

[savagewind]

The JWs knocked just the other day, and then the Mormons came by. Isn't that the same thing?

Am I wrong that you believe Christ the savior? Am I getting you mixed up with someone else?

Are there words of scripture which you do believe? Do you believe this that was written? "We do have the mind of Christ".

 

[sojourner]

Am I wrong that you believe Christ the savior? Am I getting you mixed up with someone else?

Are there words of scripture which you do believe? Do you believe this that was written? "We do have the mind of Christ".

I believe that what the church has said about Jesus points to how we should live our lives.
I believe that the texts are a faithful, written collection of the church's witness to the power of the Divine.
I believe that Philippians 2 speaks a basic truth about humanity.

 

[savagewind]

I believe that what the church has said about Jesus points to how we should live our lives.
I believe that the texts are a faithful, written collection of the church's witness to the power of the Divine.
I believe that Philippians 2 speaks a basic truth about humanity.

Thank you. What does Philippians 2:2 mean to you? then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.

Being one mind with Christ is knowing what he thinks.

Also, when you say "church" what does it mean?

What church has said what about Jesus?

 

[sojourner]

Thank you. What does Philippians 2:2 mean to you? then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.

Being one mind with Christ is knowing what he thinks.

Here's the quote:
"If then there is any encouragement in Christ, any consolation from love, any sharing in the Spirit, any compassion and sympathy, 2 make my joy complete: be of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5 Let the same mind be in you that was[a] in Christ Jesus..."

We are to have the same mind of Christ -- that is, one of obedience and humility. It doesn't say that we "know what Jesus thinks." To wit:
"who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross."

Since we have no direct quotes from Jesus, but only quotes attributed to him at least 40 years after the fact by someone who did not know him, we simply don't know what Jesus thought.

Also, when you say "church" what does it mean?

It means the body of believers who wrote, compiled, edited, and canonized the texts.
All we have is what the church has said about Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Holes in the trinity
It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

I don't agree with you.

Regards

We're all very happy for you in your arrival at disagreement. It must have been quite an accomplishment

Thanks for the compliment.

Regards