Holes in the trinity

[Muffled]

The word "Jehovah" is a modern word. Also, the original texts were not written in the language which originated the name Jehovah.

I believe the difference in language does not account for a different word or name altogether. For instance the Greek would not use the name Thoephilus in place of Jehovah. I believe Theo means god though.

 

[Muffled]

No need. The development of "Jehovah" as a mush-word between the Tetragrammaton and Adonai is well-documented. But yes. I have viewed some very early written texts. Since ancient Hebrew has no vowels and no points, YHVH is what appears in the texts.

I believe I was interested in Greek texts.

 

[Muffled]

Holes in the trinity

It is all holes. Jesus and or Mary never believed in it. Jesus never mentioned this term.

Regards

I believe one could derive holes by reasoning incorrectly but otherwise there are none.

I don't believe you can prove this so it is simply conjecture on your part.

THis is the null hypothesis whic requires that you prove it was necessary for Him to mention the term and I don't believe you will be able.

 

[moorea944]

God is also fully human. The above is about taking on human form. Jesus was begotton not made. He is the alpha and the omega. Son is just the closest word to describe the relationship. The truth of God often surpasses human language.

To say that God is also fully human totally degrades our Creator. Your bringing Him down to our level. We should be raising ourselves up to His. We should be trying to manifest His will and character. There is one God, not two. God made Jesus a man, like us, same nature to conquer sin in the flesh. It had to be someone like us to do that. If Jesus was God, that wouldnt even make sense to over come something. God, Yahweh is his Father, and Jesus was born a man. He is the son of God and the son of man. Had to be both.

 

[sojourner]

To say that God is also fully human totally degrades our Creator. Your bringing Him down to our level. We should be raising ourselves up to His. We should be trying to manifest His will and character. There is one God, not two. God made Jesus a man, like us, same nature to conquer sin in the flesh. It had to be someone like us to do that. If Jesus was God, that wouldnt even make sense to over come something. God, Yahweh is his Father, and Jesus was born a man. He is the son of God and the son of man. Had to be both.

Except that's the beauty of the theology. We cannot become pure enough for God, so God became dirty for us. That's the concept of grace -- that God comes to us, since we can't get to God. Ever see the Cistine Chapel fresco? That small space between the fingertips is a wide gulf that we can't bridge. But God can (and does). The beauty of the Trinity is that Jesus is both fully God and fully human, reflecting our nature as the imago dei -- the very image of God in the world.

 

[moorea944]

Except that's the beauty of the theology. We cannot become pure enough for God, so God became dirty for us. That's the concept of grace -- that God comes to us, since we can't get to God. Ever see the Cistine Chapel fresco? That small space between the fingertips is a wide gulf that we can't bridge. But God can (and does). The beauty of the Trinity is that Jesus is both fully God and fully human, reflecting our nature as the imago dei -- the very image of God in the world.

We cannot become pure enough for God, so God became dirty for us

I"m going to say somethings and I mean no disrespect to anyone. ...... But it sadens me when I hear talk like this. That our Creator became dirty for us. I really cant believe this! No where does scripture tell us that God came to earth or became dirty for us. God manifests Himself in angels that do His work on eath and He manifests Himself into His son that does his Father's work. But no where does the bible say that God became dirty. Is this something that we really want to believe in? Is someone telling you this?

That's the concept of grace -- that God comes to us,

No, it's the opposite!! God does not come to us, we go to God. Not in heaven, but thru His son. We have to try to be like God or try to manifest ourselves to become like him.

Jesus is both fully God and fully human

That doesnt even make sense.......

 

[Eileen]

HaShem is the only self-existent One. He is Creator not created. Humanity is created and is not self-existent.
Yeshua was human and was not self-existent. Because he was deemed worthy by HaShem to be His son and His Messiah he was resurrected to eternal life but even that eternal life is dependent upon HaShem keeping His promise, which of course He will. Something created can not be the Creator of that something. A human can not be 100% human and 100% non-human and HaShem can not be 100% non-human and 100% human. HaShem is the greatest mathematician and He is 100% HaShem, Yeshua is 100% human just as HaShem created him and the rest of humanity. It is simple, it is not a mystery but I understand that it is very difficult for most people who believe this mystery doctrine of the trinity to grasp these simple truths. People want God to be something more than they are (which HaShem clearly is) but they want Him to come down to our level somehow and bail us out. HaShem wants us to follow His instructions and His Messiah (which do not contradict) and come up to the level of humanity for which He created us but that takes work, commitment, steadfastness and submission of our wills to His. I rarely argue or even discuss the One true God-HaShem with those who are Trinitarian in their understanding because I believe that for the most part they do want to love their Creator and sincerely believe they are correct. I await the day when Yeshua is revealed by HaShem for who and what he is. Then we will all know the truth. And I imagine every one of us will have some tweaking of out understanding done then. But of course that brings in the idea of Hell and damnation which is anther area of great misunderstanding.

 

[moorea944]

HaShem is the only self-existent One. He is Creator not created. Humanity is created and is not self-existent.
Yeshua was human and was not self-existent. Because he was deemed worthy by HaShem to be His son and His Messiah he was resurrected to eternal life but even that eternal life is dependent upon HaShem keeping His promise, which of course He will. Something created can not be the Creator of that something. A human can not be 100% human and 100% non-human and HaShem can not be 100% non-human and 100% human. HaShem is the greatest mathematician and He is 100% HaShem, Yeshua is 100% human just as HaShem created him and the rest of humanity. It is simple, it is not a mystery but I understand that it is very difficult for most people who believe this mystery doctrine of the trinity to grasp these simple truths. People want God to be something more than they are (which HaShem clearly is) but they want Him to come down to our level somehow and bail us out. HaShem wants us to follow His instructions and His Messiah (which do not contradict) and come up to the level of humanity for which He created us but that takes work, commitment, steadfastness and submission of our wills to His. I rarely argue or even discuss the One true God-HaShem with those who are Trinitarian in their understanding because I believe that for the most part they do want to love their Creator and sincerely believe they are correct. I await the day when Yeshua is revealed by HaShem for who and what he is. Then we will all know the truth. And I imagine every one of us will have some tweaking of out understanding done then. But of course that brings in the idea of Hell and damnation which is anther area of great misunderstanding.

Wow, love your post!!!! At first, I was like, who is this HaShem? Then I looked it up online and there it was. Made sense. And I thought I knew all the names for our Creator. I guess I was wrong.. lol lol Good job....

 

[sojourner]

But it sadens me when I hear talk like this.

Life's full of disappointments, I suppose...

That our Creator became dirty for us. I really cant believe this!

Does it sadden you when you hear about a parent who throws herself in front of a bus to save her child? Isn't that what good parents do for their children?

No where does scripture tell us that God came to earth or became dirty for us.

It does, actually. Read John 1, and read the parable of the leaven.

God manifests Himself in angels that do His work on eath and He manifests Himself into His son that does his Father's work.

Jesus and angels are two completely different things. Angels are spirits. Jesus was fully human. And fully God.

But no where does the bible say that God became dirty. Is this something that we really want to believe in? Is someone telling you this?

Read the parable of the leaven: "The kindom is like leaven that a woman put into a lump of dough, and kneaded it until the whole lump was leavened." Leaven in the ancient world wasn't yeast like we have today. It was poison -- dirty.

No, it's the opposite!! God does not come to us, we go to God. Not in heaven, but thru His son. We have to try to be like God or try to manifest ourselves to become like him.

Yeah, I remember my first beer, too.

That doesnt even make sense.......

I'm sorry you think so.

 

[savagewind]

Read the parable of the leaven: "The kindom is like leaven that a woman put into a lump of dough, and kneaded it until the whole lump was leavened." Leaven in the ancient world wasn't yeast like we have today. It was poison -- dirty.
.

I think that parable isn't about what the kingdom of God should be but what it became and must un-become. Isaiah 1:18 Revelation 7:14 (Up and out, not through) Psalms 51:7

 

[sojourner]

I think that parable isn't about what the kingdom of God should be but what it became and must un-become. Isaiah 1:18 Revelation 7:14 (Up and out, not through) Psalms 51:7

Sorry; it doesn't work that way. You can't exegete one text with another, completely different text.

 

[savagewind]

Sorry; it doesn't work that way. You can't exegete one text with another, completely different text.

I think knowledge of the message IS about referencing one scripture with another. Do you see that scripture is written by different people? The proof of The Spirit is that they agree. Different writers in different times are agreeing. It is called PEACE.

When I can't find another scripture which supports an interpretation of scripture then I know for certain that the interpretation given is wrong.

 

[sojourner]

I think knowledge of the message IS about referencing one scripture with another. Do you see that scripture is written by different people? The proof of The Spirit is that they agree. Different writers in different times are agreeing. It is called PEACE.

When I can't find another scripture which supports an interpretation of scripture then I know for certain that the interpretation given is wrong.

Whatever fantasy world you want to live in where the bible is concerned is your business.

 

[savagewind]

Whatever fantasy world you want to live in where the bible is concerned is your business.

And yours

 

[sojourner]

And yours

Really? Your fantasy world is my business? I don't really think I want to go there. I'm afraid you'll just have to be alone with your self-conviction, while the rest of us get on with the business of working to discover what the texts actually say.

 

[sojourner]

I think knowledge of the message IS about referencing one scripture with another. Do you see that scripture is written by different people? The proof of The Spirit is that they agree. Different writers in different times are agreeing. It is called PEACE.

When I can't find another scripture which supports an interpretation of scripture then I know for certain that the interpretation given is wrong.

And what do you think those texts your referenced were saying? They said nothing about us approaching God. They did say that we hoped that God would come and make us clean. In order to do that, God has to enter into our dirty state. God can't really wash us from far away.

 

[savagewind]

Really? Your fantasy world is my business? I don't really think I want to go there. I'm afraid you'll just have to be alone with your self-conviction, while the rest of us get on with the business of working to discover what the texts actually say.

You are too cute. LOL. Is that what you read? Actually what I MEANT is that you are entitled to your fantasy world also, not that you should believe my fantasy world. Though your misunderstanding of a very, very simple statement (that I made) does pose a problem imo.

OK! Laughter is good. Can we agree on that?

The person or people who devised the plan YOU believe in and are sure is not fantasy could not possibly have been like me then (when they devised their plan) and you believe him though not me because of..............because of..................because of.............time?

 

[savagewind]

And what do you think those texts your referenced were saying? They said nothing about us approaching God. They did say that we hoped that God would come and make us clean. In order to do that, God has to enter into our dirty state. God can't really wash us from far away.

Baptism cleans us. Is God water?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Doesn't the Bible say "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"? So why don't we have four instead of three in a trinity? It should be Father, Son, Word, and Holy Spirit. Why does the Word always get left out when the Bible clearly says the Word was God. If the Son and Holy Spirit are also God, then there are four, not three. No one ever discusses this.

 

[sojourner]

Doesn't the Bible say "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"? So why don't we have four instead of three in a trinity? It should be Father, Son, Word, and Holy Spirit. Why does the Word always get left out when the Bible clearly says the Word was God. If the Son and Holy Spirit are also God, then there are four, not three. No one ever discusses this.

The Son is the Word. Ref. John 1.